New Column: No Child Custody for Husband-Killer Mary Winkler
September 18th, 2007 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & Families
"The monster that you have painted for the world to see, I don't think that monster existed...for everything you've accused him of, there never was proof, just accusations. I think that's sad because he can't speak for himself."-- Diane Winkler, Matthew Winkler's mother
My new co-authored column, No child custody for husband-killer Mary Winkler (World Net Daily, 9/14/07), argues that Winkler got off with a slap on the wrist, is psychologically disturbed, and shouldn't be granted custody of her three children.
To write a Letter to the Editor of World Net Daily, click here. I penned the column with Ned Holstein, M.D., Executive Director of Fathers & Families, a shared parenting organization.
No child custody for husband-killer Mary Winkler
By Glenn Sacks and Ned Holstein, M.D.
A killer shoots his spouse in the back, and then pulls the phone cord out so the victim can’t call 911. As the victim slowly bleeds to death, the killer abducts their three children and flees to another state.
An Amber Alert is declared for the missing children, and the killer is hunted down by police, caught, and tried. Were the killer a man, he would be locked away for life. However, this killer is a woman, Mary Winkler. The kid gloves treatment she has received from the legal system demonstrates how courts tilt heavily in favor of women when adjudicating claims of domestic abuse.
Mary Winkler told the court that Matthew had abused her physically, sexually and emotionally. For that reason, the Selmer, Tennessee jury convicted her of voluntary manslaughter, not first degree murder.
Since the March 22, 2006 killing, Mary and Matthew’s three children—girls ages 2, 8 and 10—have lived with Matthew’s parents, Dan and Diane Winkler. The Winkler grandparents seek to terminate Mary’s parental rights and adopt the girls. Mary, who served only 67 days for the killing, wants custody of her girls, and went on Oprah this week to win public sympathy for her cause. The custody trial begins in Carroll County Chancery Court next week, and many Tennessee family law attorneys believe she has a good chance to gain custody.
A win for Mary would be a loss for the three girls, as well as a terrible injustice. Despite the sympathetic media Mary Winkler has received, she is a dangerous, psychologically disturbed woman who is unfit to raise her children, and whose parental rights should be terminated.
Mary Winkler’s claims of abuse were largely uncorroborated during the trial. According to the testimony from Matthew Winkler's oldest daughter, Patricia, the dead father--who as he lay dying looked at his wife and asked "why?"--was a good man, and did not abuse her mother.
Former judge and prosecutor Jeanine Pirro says the case “sends a terrible message about the criminal justice system, that you can commit a homicide and literally get away with it...You had a preacher, who by all accounts was loved in his community, who was shot in the back while he slept. You have a woman who says she was abused with absolutely no history, no shred of evidence.”
At the trial, Diane Winkler, Matthew Winkler's mother, said:
"The monster that you have painted for the world to see, I don't think that monster existed...for everything you've accused him of, there never was proof, just accusations. I think that's sad because he can't speak for himself."
A few of Mary Winkler’s friends and family members have publicly claimed that they had previously seen indications that Mary was being abused. These witnesses will probably be out in full force during the upcoming custody case, and Matthew is unavailable to contest their version of events. It's easy to smear a dead man.
Mary Winkler says she’s sorry for killing Matthew, but she does everything she can to portray him as a monster and herself as his meek, timid victim. Despite her protestations, she has no concept of the gravity of her crime, and claims her dead husband's parents are mistreating her by not letting her be with her children. Her court pleading reads, "The three minor children continue to be withheld from their mother without just cause,” which her legal team deems “unconscionable." Winkler killed the children’s father--if that's not "just cause" for withholding a child from a parent, what is?
In describing her crime to Oprah, Mary Winkler says she was angry at her husband and “just wanted to talk to him," and then she “heard a boom.” A more complete description of the incident would have been that she wanted to talk to him, waited until he fell asleep, retrieved the shotgun, pumped it, aimed it at his back, pulled the trigger, and then “heard a boom.” Her description of the killing was so devoid of personal responsibility that even a sympathetic Oprah didn’t accept it.
Perhaps the most absurd aspect of both the trial and Oprah was the way Mary highlighted the white platform shoes which she claimed Matthew “made her” wear, and which she said were deeply humiliating to her. During the trial, Mary held up the shoe and bowed her head down in mock pain and shame. Oprah bought it, telling her audience that on her show “everybody gasped when they saw the shoe.” It was up to feminist Court TV commentator Lisa Bloom, Gloria Allred’s daughter, to explain to Oprah that in any "big city" people would have “laughed at” Mary’s claims that the shoes were part of the “abuse” she suffered. Bloom added:
“We [at Court TV] all thought it was a first degree murder case."
In order to win permanent custody, Dan and Diane Winkler must show that Mary Winkler poses a “substantial threat of harm to her children,” and that ending her parental rights is in the best interests of her children. In family court, claims of abuse in custody cases are often decided merely by the preponderance of the evidence standard—if the judge believes that there’s a 51% chance one side is telling the truth, they win. Yet Mary was found guilty of voluntary manslaughter, not by preponderance, nor even by the clear and convincing evidence standard, but instead by the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt--the highest standard in our legal system. That alone is sufficient evidence that Winkler poses a “substantial threat of harm.”
Mary says she’s a different and better person now, and that she’s learned important things. She told Oprah:
“I communicate better. I speak up when there’s something I don’t like.”
The last time Mary Winkler faced something she "didn’t like” and sought to “communicate,” she did it with a shotgun. Is this a fit parent for three young girls?
Glenn Sacks’ columns on men's and fathers' issues have appeared in dozens of the largest newspapers in the United States. He invites readers to visit his website at www.GlennSacks.com.
Ned Holstein, M.D. is the Executive Director of Fathers & Families, a shared parenting organization. Their website is www.FathersandFamilies.org.
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September 18th, 2007 at 12:44 am
I have said this before and I will say it again. Mary Winkler shows a plethora of hallmark symptoms of being a clinical psychopath. Psychopathy is
1. neurologically manifest (shrunken amygdala among other features)
2. 70%+ hereditary
3. an "incurable" mental style which includes the lack of a conscience (she definitely qualifies)
This is an extremely dangerous person who happens to be a female. She is a skilled liar and illusionist. And she skillfully shifted blame for her actions onto her actual victim, who of course, she permanently silenced by murdering him. A wig and a pair of platform shoes, which were also would have been perfect equipment for a woman involved in face-to-face bank scams -- which she was in fact involved with -- were deftly used and simultaneously explained away by her tidy cover story of claiming that her husband forced her to wear these for "sex".
Bull.
She is also the type of person who could cooly and rationally kill her own kids if she found them to be an impediment to, for example, some future boyfriend relationship she was pursuing.
Sound farfetched?
How quickly we forget that such women definitely, DEFINITELY exist in America. Let me remind all of the case of a certain Susan Smith of Union, South Carolina, who, in 1994, drowned her two sons by rolling her car into a lake. Why? Because she felt that the existence of her children was blocking her successful pursuit of a relationship with a wealthy local man. (Sound familiar? Why was Matthew Winkler murdered while he slept? Because he was confronting this woman over her bank scams.)
Read these excerpts about that female murderess and her actions from 1994 (from wiki):
"The case gained worldwide attention shortly after it developed, because Smith initially reported to police, on October 25, 1994, that she had been carjacked by an African-American man who drove away with her sons still in the car. Smith made tearful pleas on television for the rescue and return of her children. A Usenet chain letter circulated in the following days, asking Internet users to be on the lookout for the vehicle. However, nine days later, following an intensive, heavily publicized investigation and nationwide search, Smith eventually confessed to letting her 1990 Mazda Protegé roll into nearby John D. Long Lake, drowning her children inside. Many people across the United States and around the world, to whom she and her two "missing" sons had been the subject of an outpouring of sympathy, felt strongly betrayed. Their reaction to the betrayal was further aggravated by the fact that she had attempted to cast blame, falsely, upon an African-American man, making the case racially sensitive . Additionally, her alleged motive for the deaths — to dispose of her children so that she might have a relationship with a wealthy local man who had no interest in a "ready-made" family — was met with widely held contempt and revulsion. There has been no answer from Susan Smith regarding her choice not to give her husband custody of the children, instead of killing them.
Smith pleaded not guilty, despite her confessions, when prosecutors refused to offer a plea bargain. Her lawyers sought access to an advance copy of a book written by her ex-husband, David Smith, about the marriage and about Susan Smith's killing of her sons. Eventually David Smith struck an agreement allowing the lawyers to receive an advance copy of the book, which they could use to impeach him and for any other purpose relevant to her defense.[2]
While she has been in prison, two guards have been punished for having sex with Smith[3], and in 2003 she placed a personal ad at Writeaprisoner.com which has since been retracted.[4]"
OK folks. Just to recap, this "mother" from South Carolina
1. falsely accused a black man of kidnapping her sons when in fact she herself had drowned them in a lake
2. murdered her kids so as to pursue a wealthy man -- rather than simply hand "her" kids to her former husband
3. made highly convincing, tearful pleas on national television for the return of her children
4. pleaded not-guilty despite her own confessions of murder
5. had sex with two guards while in prison
This country, and the dumb-dumb prosecutors and judges of the great state of Tennessee ought to WAKE THE HECK UP about women like this. They exist. And there are a lot more of them in this country than anybody wants to admit.
Each time this happens, somehow the lessons just keep getting erased from America's memory again.
Then it happens again, and we erase the lessons yet another time.
The most dangerous type of mental abnormality known to modern science exists in both genders folks. It is called clinical psychopathy.
And one of the reasons it is so dangerous, is that it doesn't just include the ability to kill, but it includes an extraordinary ability to charm and deceive others.
That is what Susan Smith did -- but she was caught -- based on her own confession.
That is what Mary Winkler did -- but our insane female gender-pandering in this country let this murderess free. Why? Well, apparently because she killed her husband rather than her children.
This time.
But what about next time?
I am disgusted by what happened in this case, and feel that the entire prosecutorial and judicial apparatus of Tennessee should apologize to America, and the parents and children of Matthew Winkler for their grotesque and unforgivable failures in this matter. Their crime through this failure is almost as bad as the crimes of murderess - and bank fraudster - Mary Winkler.
September 18th, 2007 at 5:41 am
I have a Masters Degree in Human Development. I agree that Mary has some mental health problems. The question is how to measure them. The prior writer suggested a "shrunken amygdala". This is certainly a possibility, and could be measured with MRI, but so can other features such as a hypoactive PFC or a hypo-active Anterior Cingulate gyrus. There are several brain areas involved in faulty decision making. Certainly Mary has problems with one or more of these brain areas. Otherwise, she would have chosen some other option besides killing her husband. What concerns me most about her comments since the shooting is a failure to understand the adverse effect the shooting surely had on her kids. It brings up two major problems: lack of insight into her mental health problems and emotional detachment. Both of these are predictors of child abuse. The later problem (emotional detachment) has been linked to hypocortisolism which can be objectively measured with a few cortisol samples. While commonly associated with "mass murderers" and "serial killers", hypocortisolism (also called flattened affect) is also associated with the kind of "extreme relationship violence" committed by Mary. Until Mary gains more insight into her mental health problems, Mary is certain to be a danger to her children. Unfortunately, judges know next to nothing about mental health. What the grandparents need is someone with a PHD in mental health who can explain Mary's problems to the judge. I really feel sorry for those kids. They have lost both parents. I also feel sorry for the grandparents. They lost a son. I feel much less sorry for Mary. She needs to see a counselor and deal with her mental health problems before asking to see her kids again.
September 18th, 2007 at 6:10 am
David Spring,
You make some excellent points, including with respect to hypocortisolism, which is certainly manifest in some people who are afflicted with a chronic sub-arousal of the type which gives rise to attempts to arouse oneself through dangerous undertakings, for example. In the extreme cases, such individuals can get hooked on (serial) killing. In less extreme cases they can get hooked on serial crime-committing (e.g., bank scams). Or in her case, maybe she will now get hooked on the "attention" she is getting from the media.
And you are right about judges knowing next to nothing about mental health -- though in family courts they "know" the falsity that a woman's mental health problems are clearly the fault of whatever man is in her life. Not.
The only point I might differ with you on is this: If Mary Winkler is, as I concluded some time ago, a clinical psychopath, there is no amount of counseling in the world which is going to make her better. In fact, counseling usually makes these people worse as they begin to incorporate what they "learn" in couseling into their repertoire of manipulative behaviors towards others. Why? Because they have no conscience. Like Mary Winkler.
Children need parental empathy to feel safe. The only alternative for these kids now is grand-parental empathy.
The grotesque failure of the criminal courts in Tennessee has now given rise to the need for these already horribly injured grandparents and children to actually be drawn into this sick, dangerous, female's "quest" to regain control over their lives. A control which, the last time she exercised it, resulted in her permanently taking from them their father, and going on the lam with these children.
Who in their right mind would ever put this woman in charge of any other person's life, let alone a child's?
If any judge in Tennessee thinks this is a good idea, they might find out how some people's pen's might write an end to their judicial career. All it takes is the right amount of publicity, "your honor", deployed in the right ways. And "your honor" should recognize that you can't threaten people who have no personal stake in that case into silence by threatening to take their kids or screwing with them in other ways.
No "your honor", I'd say you might just have better career and retirement prospects if you leave those children with Matthew Winkler's parents.
And you also might avoid becoming regarded as a gender-politics crazed fool by the entire nation.
September 18th, 2007 at 6:17 am
"In describing her crime to Oprah, Mary Winkler says she was angry at her husband and “just wanted to talk to him.""
Perhaps someone should talk to Mary.
September 18th, 2007 at 8:17 am
I like to keep things in perspective, and simple. And simply put:
1. Mary Winkler is a cold-blooded killer.
2. She deserves the Death Penalty for her crime of killing her husband. Had this been a MAN who had killed his wife, HE would be given the Death Penalty. The punishment should fit the crime.
3. She should NOT be given custody of her kids. Ever.
4. The punishment should be swift and final.
September 18th, 2007 at 8:27 am
I've made my feelings about Mary Winkler clear on a few occasions.
This murdering, slanderous, fraudster shouldn't have been allowed to get away with the cold-blooded slaughter of her Husband, and she shouldn't be allowed the opportunity to harm her kids by having unrestricted access to them.
If her lawyers get their way on this then it'll just prove (for the second time in her case) that the law really is an Ass.
"Heeeee-haw"
September 18th, 2007 at 8:38 am
Jeff Dubay Said...
"In describing her crime to Oprah, Mary Winkler says she was angry at her husband and “just wanted to talk to him.""
Perhaps someone should talk to Mary.
Perhaps somebody should talk to Oprah.
September 18th, 2007 at 8:40 am
Mary winkler is a Killer. Period. And here we go AGAIN, another women/mother gets off
with just a slap on the wrist. if this would have been a Man/Father, you know that he would
of never went on ANY talk show, because he would Still be in Jail. What pisses me off is
that the feminist groups are trying to justify Murder. And yet they preach equality. Yeah right.
Equality my ass. They want total control. And oprah is is a feminist too for even allowing this
monster { mary winkler } on her show. Whats next? the view? What kind of message does
this send to other women, and our children? These women talk about Men taking responsability.
When are they going to take responsability for anything? Does this mean if a woman abuses a Man
" oh wait, women dont abuse Men, in the same terms as the feminist groups define abuse " Like,
name calling, mental, physical, and sexual. Where does the VAWA bill apply in this case? Oh, it doesnt
VAWA stands for violence against women. This bitch must be put away for YEARS...
September 18th, 2007 at 9:00 am
Once again, I lament that this debate is restricted to fringe right forums like the World Nut Daily.
September 18th, 2007 at 9:45 am
There have been many men that have killed their wives and have gotten away with it! You all seem to be so down on her but have you personally experienced abuse over an extended period of time while having to "play the role" of the happy wife...I believe not! Yes she may have some emotional issues (no doubt brought on by the lie she lived with her husband) but why should she ball for a man that abused her. She did what she felt was best and killed him that would not have been my choice but I'm sure some of you perfect people would have done the same if put in the same situation! She should get her children back and if not she should not be denied the right to see them...if you all are so concerned about the children...with all of your psychological back ground, you would understand that their losing both parents is FAR more painful than their mother having some time with them...considering I have not heard any shred of evidence that she ever harmed the children. Glenn you should write fiction...your account of the case on you blog is truly sensational! That is what is wrong with American! You can spare yourselves the time it takes to write your nasty replies as I will not be returning to read anything from this site.
September 18th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Apparently, she's begun dating
http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070917/NEWS01/70917024
September 18th, 2007 at 9:56 am
Anonymous,
So you don't think, then, that killing a child's parent does harm to them?
Wel, not the dad anyway.
I wonder how those kids are gonna feel when they one day Google their father's name and come across all the hateful unfounded trash that people have accused him of.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:23 am
Amen, Glenn. Amen. Thank you.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:46 am
Although I too went through an abusive marriage, I agree that Mary Winkler got off way, way too easy. She repeated on Oprah the body language and speech she displayed in court. Which made me distrust it as genuine.
I agree, she should have been imprisoned for life and her children cannot, absolutely cannot be given back to her. She's lucky she has any visitation and she should be satisfied with that she will live to see them grow up, unlike her husband.
With all this family and support around, her first action should have been going to them. Failing that, fleeing with the kids, if the abuse was that severe and genuine, failing that, then have her husband arrested for assault.
I had to call the police on my husband, and he never sought help for his actions. MY maternal instincts told me to never have children by him. And I never did.
No abusive man should be a father, and no woman should allow such a thing.
Mary Winkler had several other options, and didn't take them. And that's shame on her.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:50 am
"Perhaps the most absurd aspect of both the trial and Oprah was the way Mary highlighted the white platform shoes which she claimed Matthew “made her” wear, and which she said were deeply humiliating to her. During the trial, Mary held up the shoe and bowed her head down in mock pain and shame."
I'll bet that Ms. Winkler did not strongly object to wearing these shoes.
Cycles of submissiveness and rebellion, which is later used to take children away from their fathers and allow the mother to be free to find a new sexual partner, may be a characteristic that is naturally selected.
September 18th, 2007 at 11:42 am
Mary could've walked away. Mary could've divorced her husband. This has to be the biggest slap in the legal system's face! A woman murders a man and gets no time in jail. Then she claims it is harmful to the children that she doesn't have custody. Based on what I have witnessed/exeperienced in the California court system, Mary will most likely get custody.
When will the courts wake up?
September 18th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
...Scott Peterson - kills wife, gets death sentence
....Mary Winkler - kills husband, gets 60 days and a forum on "Oprah."
Can somebody explain this to me?
September 18th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Don't understand Bloom's argument re. the judge's decision. ". . . the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt--the highest standard in our legal system. That alone is sufficient evidence that Winkler poses a substantial threat of harm" Bloom says.
What's her point? Mary Winkler claimed abuse. Judge found for her. Elaborate please.
September 18th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
thanks go she didn't get custody, however she should be in jail.
September 18th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
This woman should be in prison. This case sickens me more than any case I've seen. She has no right to be free. She killed a human being who was defenseless. She KNEW what she was doing. Her smirk on her face during the trial speaks volumes. The jurors in this trial were pathetic. I do not know how they sleep at night. This woman IS NOT a fit parent. She is a COLD BLOODED MURDERER and i do not understand how anyone can say differently. The last time I checked the fact that a husband wants his wife to have sex and play sex games does not substantiate murdering them????? What is our country coming down to? You know if the table was turned and Mr Winkler had killed his wife under the SAME EXACT CIRCUMSTANCES that we all know he would be serving life in prison without parole. And this woman is OUT, FREE and clear and wants custody of her kids. I just cannot believe this case. Every time I hear about her I just get sick. She is a killer and one day God will judge her and he will be JUST.
All fathers out there need to take heed to this case and they better wise up and realize that the entire Family Court System is against them and they need to join together and do something to get this changed soon!!!
September 18th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
What will the mother tell the children, i.e. about killing their father? I suppose she will lie to them as she lied to the jury. Doesn't she understand the pain she has already inflicted on the kids? How do you tell Jonny you killed his daddy? She probably won't.
When will people realize it's always wrong to deceive your children! I'm certain she never tells them. I feel so sorry for the children.
September 18th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Frankly, while Mary Winkler's actions are extreme, her basic attitude of female privilege and entitlement is little different from the attitude today of most women (and now, it seems, most of the politically-correct judiciary). Should we be at all surprised? Remember that women (and too many men) are virtually hard-wired to view males (with our billions of sperm) as expendable and disposable, and to view women (with their relatively few eggs and oh-so-important vaginas) as precious. Feminists are against sexism? Right.
September 18th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
I do not believe for a second that Matthew was abusive. I heard the tape of her interview with the police (if someone has the link to that tape, please post it.)
Mary never accused Matthew of abuse on that tape, until the officer planted the seed into her psychotic head.
You can bet at this point Mary was thinking. "Imagine I can get away with the federal charges, Matthew will never know, AND I can get away with murder. PRAISE THE LORD A MIRACLE"
I watched this trial closely: Mary Winkler was facing some serious Federal crimes for Kiting. The bank set up a meeting (for that very SAME DAY she killed him) , between the bank , Mary and Matthew. Mary was busted, and she killed Matthew to avoid the confrontation at the bank. Where Matthew was about to find out she lost $17,000 of their money. She screwed up and Matthew and the children paid the price.
It is amazing to see that a pair of shoes and a wig, that she could have used at the bank to defraud them . Was suddenly described as sexual abuse.
The justice system screwed up and let this freak get away with murder.
Linda
September 18th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Such a tragedy for these children. Assuming Mary could be trusted to not harm the children, imagine life for these girls, growing up without a loving father, with the knowledge that their own mother MURDERED their dad. Guess there won't be any slumber parties for these girls at their mom's house. The people of Tennessee should get a clue, people operate through patterns of behavior, and when extreme dysfunctional behavior is REWARDED, the dysfunctional behavior will be repeated. It no suprise that OJ Simpson's extreme narcissism would earn him yet another felony arrest, although it is a bit of a surprise that it took so long. The justice system in Tennessee has already failed these kids, and failed the community it is entrusted to protect, by allowing this extremely disturbed and violent woman back on the streets. This tragedy will only be made worse for these children, if they are returned to their murderess mother's custody. Having personally experienced the foul nature of a low-life family law attorney trying to prevent my own daughter from recieving the Court's protection she needed from her abusive and violent mother (despite the unbiased recommendations of a social worker, despite the recommendations of minor's counsel, and despite a tape recording of the abuse), it seems that America's dirtiest job has nothing to do with Mike Rowe and the Discovery Channel. Although I understand the advocacy nature of legal representation, who among us could work for a living, selling out children that need the protection and care of a loving family home? It's bad enough that the Court is so ignorant of extreme personality disorders, it's even worse that Oprah would stoop so low as to give this proven psychopath a public platform to speak out. Shame on you, Oprah Winfrey. Here in California, we had the Twinkie defense for murder, now in Tennessee, its platform shoes? It's no wonder we are raising a nation of narcissists, since there is no accountability, not even for premediated murder.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
"Perhaps the most absurd aspect of both the trial and Oprah was the way Mary highlighted the white platform shoes..."
I thought the most absurd aspect of the Oprah interview was how she claimed she pulled the gun on him to tell him to "enjoy life." ROFLMAO
Right before she shot him and pulled the phone out of the wall, of course.
I swear every new development in this circus is more absurd than the one before.
September 18th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
[...] we've been discussing the Mary Winkler case and the general subject of women getting away with anything and everything, this story from [...]
September 18th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Apparently she's started dating? You've got to be kidding. Why not try to kiss rattlesnakes. But you just know there's got to be some dumbass out there who'll marry this woman. I hope he sleeps with one eye open. Just goes to show how stupid some men can be.
September 18th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Well, at least I should feel fortunate to be alive, I guess. I was married to what I thought was a great woman for about 15 years. I ran a business and she retired from her state job to assist with the company. We had our arguments and quarrels like I thought a lot of people do or did, but we always seemed to have the same goal in life. We always seemed to want the best for our two children.
Then one day almost 3 years ago, I come home from one of those 14 hour days. No wife at home, no children at home. GONE!!!! Soooo, I didn't see my children for the next two months and what I uncovered was just so incredible that even an investigator couldn't believe what this woman had done. Tax evasion, $76,000.00 in bad checks, embezzlement of over $200,000.00 and the kicker is that she got away with all of it.
The best part is that she to played the abuse card and I gave this lady everything i possibly could and more!! I now see my 15 year old daughter 4 days a month!!! I see my 9 year old son 50% of the time and I even have to pay $600.00 for health care and then another $300.00 in support!! Talk about about a system that is unfair and so screwed up it is pathetic!! She should be in jail, but yet she has alienated our daughter from me. She is trying with our son and it will probably work in time. She has and still portrays herself as the poor petite, abused woman. But, yet walked around for 15 years with no marks, wore bathing suites at the lake and pool and beach. But, play the good old abuse card and the man becomes the dredge of the earth!!! I know, been there, done that and still fighting it every week and this stuff is almost three years old. GO FIGURE. Is there any justice in the world??? NO, No and HELL NO!!!!!!!
But, you know. I am dead inside!! I live everyday with the thought of what I let go on and never once thought about checking up on my bookkeeper ( my wife, HA). Trusting to much can be a BAD thing!! I live with the thought of what this has done to our children and what it continues to do to them on a daily basis. As hard as I try with my daughter, she still writes how much she hates me and how I have ruined her and her mothers lives. I try to keep a business going that I have no interest in now. I look at my own business as just another job. I and started this 20 years ago!! And yeah I do the therapy. Life goes on and ..........
September 18th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
This lady isnt crazy!! Do I really think she knew what she was doing when she MURDERED her husband? Sort answer: "YES" Long answer "Hell yes"!! I shse a threat to her children?? Not in my opinion..she just wanted her husband dead!! Do I think she should see her kids?? YES...UNDER SUPERVISION ONLY!! We cannot reward this bitc.....!! The grandparents should have sole and irrevocable custody!! I went through a awful s=custody battle and now have SHARED custody so I have NO SYMPATHY for this person, but ill bet my next weeks check she at least gets UNSUPERVISED visitation!! AFTER ALL SHE GAVE BIRTH!! that is the cry by all these feminist!! This whole thing stinks!!
September 18th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
American society is all too willing to believe anything a woman says. Oprah has a very dangerous influence on this society. If this case does not convince you how utterly messed up the feminists and their male and female apologists have made America then probably nothing will. The absurd and incredible has become commonplace and people are no longer shocked by what happens. American society is collapsing. America is not worth defending. America is not worth saving. Let it all come down.
September 18th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
death penalty?
hummm, now that she is convicted killer and out of jail, there are government sponsored programs which will pay her salary should she want to get a job.......oh and if a disabled vet wants to get a job with the federal government to pay back child support, guess what...they can't until they pay all their back child support....hummm
my mom made me wear my nice shoes to church...was she abusive? I think not..
hummmm how do you spell double standards
what a country we have become
September 18th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
I think it would be to tramatizing on the children to see her period. If indeed she was abused she could of went to a shelter or something. Her husband did not abuse the kids. Her main concern should of been the safety of the children. Now they are left with out a father and mother. What if she was to have a stage of rage. She may end up killing the kids. After all she hated thier father enough to kill him. What if the kids remind her of him, will she kill them also.
September 18th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Ahhhhh, don't worry folks, she'll get the kids back, women ALWAYS win, fit or not! Women GOOD! Men BAAAADD! Women walk after killing their husbands all the time-all they have to do is whine/lie with those three little words "HE ABUSED ME" Sniff! Sniff! BOO-HOO! When Andrea Yates told her children "Get in the tub!", feminists said it was RUSTY'S fault, Sniff! Sniff! BOO-HOO! Look what happened there, Andrea will be free in no time!
September 18th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
When are we going to fight back????????? Are we just going to sit there and let the women of this country degrade, abuse and murder us?? I personally think that any man who marries a woman in western society is putting himself at great risk. This is a society where a woman has legal right to kill you, rob you, steal your children and all she has to do is say she was abused; end of story! What we need is to show the women of this society that we can get together and avenge our fallen brothers. I personally hope Mary Winkler gets the same reward as her husband did, a bullet to her back, if not in this life than in the next.
If you read the reports carefully, Mary's final argument with the husband with over money. She said she even admitted some was her fault. Well, why is a woman who was so abused and raped her whole life, losing her cool over money. She was crying the husband had too much control over her and forced her into bad sexual behaviors. The woman was not rational and I believe her husband gave her too little instead of too much attention. Her talk about sexual abuse and beatings where fabricated and obviously fed to her by her lawyer. She massacred her husband because she realized she lost the family money through her criminal behavior. A typical hot-headed woman who could not accept the emotional discipline her husband would give her when he found out about her poor conduct. Perhaps, she also was afraid her evil deeds would be exposed to the community. Don't be surprised when you hear of Mary getting arrested down the line, like OJ SImpson, who just got tagged for robbery.
Mary's husband is guilty of one crime: For not paying enough attention to this psychopath, leaving his children's orphans and now at the mercy of the american legal system. HE should have came to GlennSacks, AngryHarry website and read more cases of abusive women. Mary was not the one who was abused, it was her husband.. I see Mary Winkler's everyday.
You will see more cases like this, now women see that Mary can commit this crime and be free, they will have the boldness to rid themselves of their husband. I will tell you that human life is worth much less to the average American woman than the average American man. In general, American men are more concerned for the well-beings of the spouse and children than women. You will see many cases now of women disposing their husbands and children as if they are just a commodity, Susan Smith is a good example. Look at personal ads on romance sites: many women (not all) want superficial things; they demand the man have good job, good looking, be over 5,10, spoil me, know how to treat a woman, etc etc... Surprisingly enough, when I look at ads of males on these sites, its more a plead for love and to have a family. More men join these sites because they are afraid of approaching women in this world today, whereas women join cause they have not found the perfect prince charming. When the fantasy of the rich handsome man is over, suddenly reality sets in. Mary's husband was a tall handsome man and probably fulfilled her immediate fantasies. But, when her expectations where not lived up to, with her American woman mind, she choose to play God as many women do. Now to find the next victim..
September 18th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
To Yonatan:
AMEN BROTHER! SHE wrote a boatload of hot checks and was pissed off her hubby found out, so she slienced him-forever!
September 18th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
THER IS NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT YOU ALL KNOW AS WELL AS I DO THE COURTS WILL BE GIVING THE CHILDREN OVER TO THE MOTHER. THIS ONLY GOES TO SHOW THAT MEN IN THE COURT SYSTEM ARE ONLY VIEWED AS ATM MACHINES, MAYBE THE COURT WILL GIVE HER HIS SOCIAL SECURITY FOR SUPPORT ALSO.
HE MAY BE DEAD KILLED BY HER BUT AFTER ALL HE STILL HAS TO PAY. AT LEAST MY EX DID'NT KILL ME AND I GET TO PAY FOR HER AND HER JOBLESS LIVE IN BOYFRIEND ALONG WITH ALIMONEY AND CHILD SUPPORT, I GOT OFF EASY.
DENNIS
September 19th, 2007 at 3:34 am
This court issue is like my own which is very real and absurd... I am a 30 year old male, and when it came to divorce, my ex and her attorney tried to smear me like a monster also, and even though I was right there, my attorney said not to try to defend myself... that the judge didn't pay attention to that. But the sob story must have worked, because after all was said and done, I still had to give her a parting "gift" of money, even after I proved that she had stolen money. And worst of all, she still walked away with our daughter after she showed in court that she was about as fit a mother as a flat tire.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:29 am
"Yes she may have some emotional issues (no doubt brought on by the lie she lived with her husband) but why should she ball for a man that abused her. She did what she felt was best and killed him - - -."
I was not going to comment on this sickening cas, but will comment on the rationale behind the above statement by the anonymous femi-Nazi. Mary Winkler does not have any emotional problems that should be lf legal relevance. She was a sociopath, but crossed th line into being a psychopathic killer. She has no conscience. If interviewed in depth, it will be discerned, I an certain, that she hates her father, a hallmark of the female psychopath. As to the accusation of abuse, Anonymous makes the case as to why emotional abuse is too subjective and amorphous a concept to even be entertained in a court of law! The only proof offered by Mary Winkler was absolutely ludicrous. (The discussion here is so educational that I have linked it on my blog.)
http://ken454.statesmanblogs.com
September 19th, 2007 at 9:32 am
I apologize for the above serial typos. I hit enter before proofing the comment. (Old age and decrepitude.)
September 19th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
...any guess on what the movie and book rights to the Winkler case will be worth?
September 19th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
In the UK, a criminal is not allowed to profit from his or her crime - she could write the book, but she'd not be allowed to receive money for it.
However, if she writes it (and makes money) in the US, wouldn't there be an opportunity for the in-laws to sue her for a good portion of it in a civil claim? After all, pathetic sentence aside, she was found guilty of his unlawful killing.
September 19th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
She is very likely a childhood abuse survivor with pathological survival skills that can both charm judges and kill the father of her children. I hope that even one family court magistrate or judge will pay attention to this message, because what I have to say comes from years of learning about how family courts are deceived and mislead.
The symptoms of deeper scars from this woman's personal history could provide crucial evidence of a psychopathology that flashes warning lights to anyone who knows the signs. The evidence is already clear that this woman acted violently and then charmed powerful people around her. But she could get away with a crucial lie that affects her behavior beyond the obvious murder of her husband, and impacts these children forever.
When will judges be held accountable for mis-reading all of the psychological symptoms and evidence in order to require asking the right questions? What are the real causes of this woman's behavior that she could murder her husband? What happened in her own childhood? What is the professional diagnosis of her psychological condition, and who are the experts that evaluated her? The statistics and literature about the effects of early childhood abuse upon later behaviors and potentially abusive actions abounds.
I'm only an observer begging questions, however, this woman's behavior --manipulative and murderous--is actually a classic pattern taken to the extreme: it is common formula in many false allegations of domestic abuse and raises clear questions. It will continue as a pattern affecting anyone in her path.
Is this woman an abuse victim? She killed her husband: that should raise a flag, at least the right questions! She claims to be abused, but a significant question is: abused by whom? Blaming her murdered husband may be a smokescreen for pathological denial of her own experience of early childhood abuse. (I'm guessing, who knows? but it should be asked!). The consequences of such childhood trauma are studied and documented with increasingly substantial understanding of effects on behaviors that frequently appear in courts: patterns of false allegations and domestic violence.
Abuse victims with untreated personality disorders are often in complete denial that they have psychological disorders, the traumas that caused them, and they refuse treatment--while perpetuating their problems and causing dysfunction in their own domestic surroundings. They project their own issues onto others like a mirror, often accusing others of the very monstrous acts that they commit, manipulating those closest to themselves to assure their own survival. They brazenly make false accusations and have delusions of being abused when in fact they are perpetuating the very thing that happened to themselves in their pathological past.
Adult victims of child abuse desperately need help, but from professional psychologists instead of lawyers and court magistrates who are ignorant of psychology and often biased in sympathy for women. Adult victims of early childhood abuse are often frozen in a developmental stage that must be examined and exposed, and children should be protected from exposure to the influence of such disorders because it can imprint their personalities. (Not all survivors display personality disorders, but trauma is one of the factors to examine in diagnosis; I also know survivors who have overcome traumatic abuse triumphantly and radiantly.) People with personality disorders impact the lives of everyone surrounding them, and often their behavior is directly resulting from unresolved childhood issues; unfortunately they transmit those issues into the lives of those around them in a dangerous tornado of deception and emotions that often cause violence.
Example: I was married to a victim of childhood sexual abuse perpetrated by her own father, a secret she kept until it emerged after our children were born. She always was short-fused and became increasingly hostile and violent until I feared for my children and me that she would cross the line from screaming and throwing things to killing someone. My children feared her and I protected them as any parent would. I never knew DV in my life before, and was perplexed but patient. Seeking counsel, I realized that she probably developed a personality disorder (as clinically defined in the DSM VII manual of the APA). But look out! Such a person's own survival instincts will twist and flip any situation to their favor because someone with a borderline personality disorder reacts with instinct against whatever/whoever threatens their delusional self-concept and version of reality.
My Ex-wife falsely accused me in court of the very specific DV acts that she had perpetrated upon me and my children (threatening, violence, kidnapping). I could never have done such things (yes, patience, believe it or not). But the judge chose to believe her preposterous story against all of the credible evidence, giving her full custody of my children during a three years trial (in Ramsey County FC, MN.). The court referee then ran me into the ground with multiple violations of state statutes, her own court orders, and laws, and depriving me of any resources to fight back legally. The evidence of her past was all documented and exhibited in court, but of course the female pseudo-judge referee favored the mother, ignoring professional knowledge about clinically recognized patterns of behavior. A wonderful father was vilified and crushed by a biased and incompetent court while violating the best interests of the children in the extreme. I have not seen my children in over two years. The referee enshrined her judgment into law, a fossilized fraud mocking family justice, causing lifelong anguish and pain to my children.
How often is this story repeated around this country and around the planet? The Winkler case is a resounding example of how dysfunctional and rotten our family courts can be when they are so ill-informed, and our society is crumbling from within, and spiraling downward as the perspectives become frozen into misguided laws and acts that reflect bias rather than professional knowledge.
Judges endanger the children by ignoring very real and clinically provable danger and deception of people with personality disorders, including the effects of early childhood trauma that lead to violence and false allegations in adulthood. The flags and signs are all there waving at the family courts who should become experts in recognizing the conditions and ask the questions. Judges must be held accountable for considering questionable cases when they make biased and incompetent assessments (often because they don't consider competent professional specialists), but that is not an excuse to make biased judgments when they ruin children's lives. Courts dealing with False Allegations and deception in domestic violence cases should always take this into consideration and examine the personal history affecting a violent person. They should be much better informed about these common issues that is documented and well founded in modern psychology.
Overhaul the family court system, require training for judges to follow the laws and also understand the key issues relevant to families, and follow the principles of impartial and well-informed justice--For the sake of the children!
September 20th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
To Dad - Family Court Victim, and all other readers: I am sure I share many of your experiences with the family law system, police, and prosecutors. That experience is the extreme levels of gender bias and ignorance that police and prosecutors have, regarding domestic violence and gender. Do I need to state that the gender bias is against men? I am sure our other common experience is the ignorance of family law judges, regarding how people with extreme presonality disorders -- Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissisism, and Anti-Social (socio-pathic) behaviors -- can easily and successfully protray themselves as very competent and innocent victims, within the context of a 5 or 10 minute court hearing. In fact, these disturbed people often make more effective and emotional presentations in court, since they have long years of practice, regarding telling lies and courting advocates. You are quite correct that the Court's failure to ascertain the truth can be frustrating and expensive for the often normal and loving parent. However, the ultimate victims of this gender bias and the incompetence of family law judges are the children involved.
Regading your suggestion about overhauling the family law court system, and required training for judges, where can we start? I highly recommend the work of Bill Eddy, a licensed social worker, Mr. Eddy then went on to law school, and became an attorney specializing in family law and mediation. I suggest all family law judges should be required to read Mr. Eddy's "High Conflict People in Legal Disputes", which explores in detail how people with extreme personality disorders can and do successfully manipulate police, prosecutors, attorneys, and family law judges. (see www.eddylaw.com) I could guarentee that in any high conflict family law case that has dragged on through years of contentious litigation, Parental Alienation, and false accusations of DV or child abuse, that one or both parties is afflicted with one or more personality disorders. If you are wondering, I have no affiliation with Mr. Eddy, but have found his book to be the most concise and accurate presentation regarding what is wrong with the family law court system. Of course, a key point that Mr. Eddy makes is that family courts actually encourage the lies, manipulation, and years of contentious and worthless litigation, simply because family law judges rarely, if ever, provide much needed sanctions for parties that abuse the legal system, with lies, false accusations, manipulation, and unnecessary litigation.
As for the idiots that gave Mary Winkler a free pass for murder, and tragically, will likely return her children to her "care" (imagine a judge handing over custody of these innocent girls to a murdering, lying psychopath), I have been on the receiving end of the rage, and understand all too well, that if a gun or knife would have been within the reach of my ex-wife during one of her extreme rage driven assaults, I could have easily been killed. The fact that Mary Winkler planned and carried out Matthew Winkler's murder, at a convenient time for her, and not in the midst of a rage, says all too clearly that she is truly a psychopath. I hope the people of Tennessee sleep well at night, knowing Mary Winkler walks freely amongst them.
September 20th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Considering all the personal experience so many who post here have had with divorce, or some other domestic issue...it seriously boggles my mind that this is the same population that doesn't want gay people to be able to marry because heterosexuals are so good at it and superior at raising children.
Or gay people can't naturally procreate.
The fault, dear Brutus...is not in our stars...so to speak. No in the gay community that's trying to commit to a social institution that heterosexuals are wrecking on their own.
Gender bias, whether in family court, with law enforcers or other agencies that intervene when a family dissolves wouldn't happen in a gay couple.
This isn't even off topic. This is VERY on topic. This is about when private pain and family dissolution is left to public courts and scrutiny.
Evidently, there is little that courts can to to keep marriages together and parents from abandoning their children or making their children's lives extremely difficult.
And courts and other supporters are not able, by law, to KEEP a parent or significant other from doing their duty...unless you're gay.
How stupid.
September 20th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
Anonymous said:
"Considering all the personal experience so many who post here have had with divorce, or some other domestic issue...it seriously boggles my mind that this is the same population that doesn't want gay people to be able to marry because heterosexuals are so good at it and superior at raising children."
Why would only right wing (or religious) conservatives be interested in a fair and equitable family court system?
You have pigeon-holed a bunch of people that probably have very widely diverging views on gay-marriage (and probably abortion rights, inclusive health care etc)
I agree with the rest of your post
John
September 22nd, 2007 at 7:21 am
“Evidently, there is little that courts can to to keep marriages together and parents from abandoning their children or making their children's lives extremely difficult.”
???????????????????????? How about not making the final decision so extremely imbalanced in so many cases that for one sex, divorce looks good, and the other sees it as bad. Guess which way that works. Not well for males if you can’t.
Another quote of yours – “How stupid.” I agree whole-heartedly.
September 23rd, 2007 at 9:25 am
The men of this country need to stand up and NOT PUT UP WITH THIS ABUSE any longer. The Mary Winklers of the world, need to be in prison, sweeting out their justly deserved appointment with the electric chair. They need to be told , then we need to back it up with action, that the socially, legally and morally irresponsible behavior that they have been getting away with for over 40 years is going to stop. Effective immediately, if the lie, they cheat, or if they murder their husband, they will be punished. No excuses will be made or even allowed. If you did it honey, you will pay for it.
Once this new policy is put into force, we may well have to bring to trial and punish the"government thugs "who have backed this Out of control behavior. I think an appropriate charge would be high treason and they too should be in prison sweeting out their execution date too. I know this sound harsh, but these bastards have over and over again did things that hurt our country, hurt our society and run over the rights of men/fathers. They do not seem to understand that wrong ... is wrong. They can't be rehabilitated or corrected . If we let them out , they will do it again.
So the ultimate punishement is deserved and is totally necessary!
September 25th, 2007 at 9:23 am
What is wrong with the courts in America? Wake up judges! The DA in Selmer, Tn needs to resign. He did a disservice to Dan and his children. Mary Winkler should be locked up forever and ever. The children should never have to look at Mary Winkler again much less be in her custody! Wake up judges!
October 4th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Oh GOD!! I am never watching Oprah again. How she can have a psychopathic killer and show sympathy for her on national television is beyond me. If she were a man, the story would indeed be totally different. I refuse to watch Oprah ever again just for that.
October 4th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
JOSH, Mary Winkler is NOT the 1st woman Oprah has had on her show crying the abused wife routine.
She also had the psychopath that ran over her husband repeatedly with the mans daughter in the car begging her to not kill her father . Oprah is trying to get her out of jail. BECAUSE, it isn't right to seperate children from their mothers.
She also has mothers that have killed or abused their children. Making excuses and getting sympathy. Of course there was always a man that drove them to it.
This is when I decided to NEVER watch her show again. Oprah believes woman can do NO wrong. That a man is always the root of any problem a woman may have. It is the same thing with a lot of shows. Like Nancy Grace,
Society, does not want to believe a woman is 100% capable of doing the very same things a man is capable of. And also does it on a daily bases.
October 4th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Shyeah, I'm not surprised that she wasn't the first crazed psychopath to be labeled as a "victim." What a crock of shit. And yeah, I'm not watching that show again either.
When did Oprah have the woman that ran over her husband on her show? Didn't anybody notice that she RAN OVER HER HUSBAND? Are people really that stupid?
October 5th, 2007 at 10:24 am
"I personally hope Mary Winkler gets the same reward as her husband did, a bullet to her back, if not in this life than in the next."
I believe that Yonatan missed a very relevant detail when he made that statement, as I assume a lot of you who do not use firearms did. He was not shot with a bullet, but with a load of shot in the back, at close range, which penetrated his intestines and probably his vital organs. This is why it took him 20 minutes to die. this is not some kind of technical detail. Did you cringe when they gutted Braveheart? That's pretty much the way Mary Winkler's husband died, second only to burning to death in its agony. Just so you realize what kind of monster she is.
October 11th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Let's not lose focus and sabotage our own best reasons to struggle for father's rights: loving our children. Nonviolent Action is the powerful weapon and only method to confront the injustices tearing our families apart. Hate breeds violence and the spiral continues: Violence breeds violence and poisons our personal human dignity.
I refuse to hate because that venom would poison my soul, even when my own story and analysis above (Sept. 17) illustrates that an innocent and loving father can have his children turned over to a violent mother and the court order my life shattered, tying my hands from protecting my own children. Hate would only bury me further in misery and undermine my just cause to take that biased magistrate to a higher Judge.
It may seem natural to vent hate and feel violent when the Family Courts perpetuate violence by women and destroy a father's most essential loving relationships, and especially when they practice prejudice and bias with impunity--it makes me angry and outraged and shatters my hope in justice. But I still envision a higher authority that will prevail: Love and Justice transcend our historical moment, while hatred and cynicism degrade my own humanity. All of us are horrified that Mary Winkler gets away with murder, and that violent women are supported on Oprah (etc.) and in our courts, and that VAWA continues to fund activist women that hate men and lobby to block reforms in congress and legislatures, and so many other outrageous injustices that undermine civil society.
I still believe that Fathers fighting for Dad's Rights to maintain loving relationships with their children must stand on the higher ground of magnanimous and intelligent nonviolent struggle to change the system, and to demonstrate to our own children that no matter what happened, their Dad's were good and loving and worthy of their love.
The courts will one day face their infamy, and that is part of our current calling: we must change the laws and raise awareness. I have met father's rights activists whose integrity and vision led them on a long and painful journey that overturned the evil inflicted upon them by the courts. But they often felt shattered and helpless when their children's lives are irretrievably affected by extreme injustice. Fighting despair with a vision of hope shows immense strength and integrity.
Those who find the energy to join the fight for future fathers and generations of children--not to mention the integrity and humanity of our society--must begin by training our own minds and hearts and raising our voices. Don't resort to the same toxic hatred and vicious attitudes of the extremist male-hating and manipulative anti-Father activists. It will not bring about a just peace now or even in the future.
Father's Rights are built upon universal and more enduring foundations: the love of our children, our rights as parents to be with our children, and our natural instinct to protect our children by making the judges and legislators recognize what Family Court Justice is required to accomplish: the best interests of the CHILDREN!
October 11th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
"Father's Rights are built upon universal and more enduring foundations: the love of our children, our rights as parents to be with our children, and our natural instinct to protect our children by making the judges and legislators recognize what Family Court Justice is required to accomplish: the best interests of the CHILDREN!"
DFCV,you are truly a good, caring, and principled young man who is maintaining his dignity and principles in the face of unspeakable evil. I mean that. You are also naive. Family court is doing what it was designed to do, starting with the genises of the idea of no-fault divorce in the 1940's. The idea was to establish female independence. Now it has morphed into the goal of destruction of the traditional family and the male, along with the patriarchy. and the establishment of female dominance. But even more importantly, it is meant to propogate and enrich a bureacracy and the lawyers who feed pon it. That is the point of family law. Children are only a means to an end in this evil, and are destroyed with impunity by this system.
The United States is in decline in more areas than family law. Ignorance is iendemnic, rampant , and increasing. The welfare class is becoming the majority. The law no longer serves justice, but the fiscal gluttony of the state in practically all areas. We all need to quit denying our hatred and own it , as Jesus owned his when confronting the money changers in the temple. It must be channeled and given direction, just as Christ did, as Patrick Henry did, as Jefferson, Macarthur, Churchill, and countless other heroes throughout history have done. Remember, our rights, although rooted in love of family, children, and liberty, were not secured by that love. They were secured with the blood of patriots! And we have somehow lost them.
http://ken454.statesmanblogs.com
January 8th, 2008 at 1:03 am
My son has been through a horrible 10 years with a wife who has completely turned a previously loving family against their father. They are now divorced but she has not stopped making him miserable through her foul mouth (in front of the children) and through them. I fear for his life. He has part custody buy many people have advised him to give up the children. The mother has now started telling the children to call the police on their dad if he even tries to talk to them (on his time) or if he askes them to do anything like--come have dinner or clean your room. The daughter, just this week, started screeming when he tried to talk to her, called her mother on her cell phone, then called the police. They came and decided there was nothing wrong, then left. This woman will not stop. As I said, I fear for his life. This is a mild manored man who was always very close to his children and they loved him. Now they say they "always" hated him. His wife personally told me she wanted him out of the house and wanted money and of course the children. I have a large, happy family. We have never had anything like this happen.
January 8th, 2008 at 1:32 am
Carolynm, you have every reason to fear for his life. I would also fear for the children. Any parent that would use their children as a weapon, is capable of anything.
I too also worried about my son. Thank goodness he didn't have children with her. She does have a son from a former boyfriend. (she actually said to me, she didn't want HIS child) After all the "crap" she has pulled. I told her, I thank God that she is NOT the mother of MY grandchild. There is no stopping her when she gets in these moods.
Your son needs to keep very close logs. And also ask the police for a copy of their reports. Any court records from false accusations, etc etc..
I can totally understand your frustration. Especially, when there is nothing you can do to help him or the children, until he has had enough.
Hugs
Linda
May 20th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Dad FamilyCourtVictim Says:
October 11th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Fathers dying for Dad's Rights to maintain loving relationships with their children
I've updated this small portion of your post to reflect what is actually going on in the struggle today.
You, sir, seem to be way too honorable of a man to fight in the type of war that has been foisted upon the men and Fathers of this new millenium. These wemon (rhymes with demon) of the feminist "movement" are trying to exterminate us as a gender (see the "Scum Manifesto" by Valerie Solanas-available foe viewing @ www.angryharry.com).
I think that we need to publicize in the extreme every Father killed by the psychopath he was divorcing. We need to shove this into people's faces on a daily basis. Just as the "feminists" do with every woman who may have been "abused". Our example is best taken from the early (pre- Emperor Constantine) Christian Church, make these men into martyrs, emotionalistic tactics are perfectly fine in this. Hell we may even get some more women (the decent ones) to help out (no disparagement to the wonderful ladies already on this site who are aware of what's going on. My heartfelt thanks to you.).
This is a fight for our very lives, gentlemen.
August 5th, 2008 at 6:01 am
Who was the judge ?
Elections are coming up. We need to get his name and publicize his name so he loses his re-election.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 pm
I HAVE WORKED IN THE COURT SYSTEMS FOR YEARS AND IT IS VERY OBVIOUS THAT WOMEN ARE TREATED DIFFERENTLY THAN MEN WHEN IT COMES TIME FOR THE PUNISHMENT FOR THEIR CRIME. A MURDERER IS A MURDERER WHETHER IT IS A WOMAN OR A MAN. I BELIEVE MARY WINKLER WAS A COLD BLOODED MURDERER WHO HAD GOTTEN HERSELF IN A MESS WITH HER FINANCIAL FRAUD AND FIGURED THE ONLY WAY OUT WAS TO SHOOT HER HUSBAND BECAUSE SHE KNEW HE WAS ABOUT TO FIND OUT WHAT SHE HAD BEEN DOING. SHE'S A LIAR AND SHE SHOULD NEVER GET HER CHILDREN BACK.. SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF FIRST DEGREE MURDER. WITH ALL OF THE PEOPLE WRITING COMMENTS THAT BELIEVE SHE IS A MURDERER WHO THE HELL WAS LISTENING IN COURT TO THIS CASE TO MAKE SUCH A DECISION THAT WAS HANDED DOWN?????