Georgia Child Rape Case Has Some Problems (Part I)
November 20th, 2007 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & Families
An 11-year-old Georgia girl claims that an 8-year-old and two 9-year-old boys kidnapped and raped her. According to CNN, "Three boys, ages 8 and 9, were charged Monday with raping the 11-year-old girl."
The most recent CNN news story is below. To watch the video of the girl describe the alleged attack, click here.
On one level, the girl sounds credible during the interview. On the other hand, several things seem very strange:
1) Though it's barely detectible in the news reports, the alleged rape victim was not alone with the three boys--she was also with a friend of hers. So for the charge to be true, the three younger boys would have had to completely overpower two girls, one and probably both of whom are older.
2) The boy "rapist" was nine, his alleged victim was 11. In the video, the girl looks pretty big. (Note that in the picture above, she is standing to the right of her mother, and both of them are near the car. She's almost as tall as the reporter who is interviewing her.)
The boy's father says she is far bigger than his son. Could a boy rape a girl who is apparently much bigger than him? The father of the alleged rapist also claims that the boy has a broken wrist.
3) Is an eight-or nine-year-old boy even physically capable of sex or rape?
Child-on-child rape case stuns small Georgia town
CNN, 11/20/07
ACWORTH, Georgia (AP) -- They could barely see over the courtroom table, and their legs were too short to reach the floor: An 8-year-old and two 9-year-old boys, accused of raping an 11-year-old neighbor.
A girl, 11, says three boys, ages 8 and 9, raped her in a field behind this Acworth, Georgia, apartment complex.
The case sent shockwaves through this community some 30 miles north of Atlanta, particularly in the working class apartment complex where the children live.
"It's just hard to understand," said Chris Ware, who has lived in the complex three years.
The boys are accused of forcing a girl they were playing with into a litter-strewn wooded area behind the complex Thursday. She said she was threatened with a rock, and that one of the boys raped her, according to Acworth Police Chief Mike Wilkie.
Authorities said the girl waited until Saturday to tell her family, who then reported it to police.
But the father of one of the boys told WGCL-TV that the girl made up the rape allegations to cover her own behavior.
"She's trying to cover her own butt by getting everyone else in more serious trouble," the station's Web site quotes the father as saying.
Reporters were briefly allowed in the courtroom where the tiny suspects sat Monday in restraints and navy blue jumpsuits.
Juvenile Court Judge A. Gregory Poole ruled against media requests for access, then closed off the hearing to determine whether there was probable cause to hold the boys. Poole also issued a sweeping gag order instructing participants in the case not to talk to the press.
Cobb County District Attorney Pat Head said the boys could not be charged with felonies because of their age but could be tried for alleged delinquent acts that could place them in a juvenile facility for up to five years. The next step will be for the court to schedule a hearing to determine how to proceed, Head said.
Wilkie also said the investigation is "far from over," and investigators are looking into claims that after the alleged attack, the girl talked about it with her friends at a slumber party.
The girl's mother told WGCL, "They do need to be taught a lesson because if they do it to her, they could do it to somebody else. And who knows when they become teenagers what they can do to other girls."
Police in this town of about 17,000 along the shores of Lake Allatoona said they have never investigated rape allegations where all the parties were so young.
"This wouldn't be normal anywhere, but especially not Acworth," police Capt. Wayne Dennard said.
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November 20th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
If you look at the comment section on the CNN story, it is utterly amazing how many people have rushed to judgment and assumed the girl is telling the truth. We've learned nothing from Duke lacrosse; the male is automatically guilty, even though an eleven year girl is usually much bigger and stronger than 8 and 9 year old boys, and even though it's unlikely boys that age are physically capable of raping! I am absolutely disgusted over this.
Astounding how America's mindset is so anti-male in these instances. My guess is the girl is lying, and I want to see the same level of media coverage when her lie is revealed.
November 20th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
...either way, these boys will need some really good lawyers. And America has 60% of the world's lawyers serving 4% of the world's population...
November 20th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Anti-male indeed. When the female victim is much smaller than her male attacker that point is played up constantly but in this case where she is the larger I wonder if it will played up as much. Rufus the assumption of the male being guilty in a rape case predates the Duke case by leaps and bounds but it should have taught us a lesson as you point out. It's true that kids are having sex at younger and younger ages these days but due to the ages of these boys the first thing I'd like to know is if they are even capable of sex (remember males have to put a little more "thought" into sex than females). Now if it is proven they did force this girl to have sex then they need to be punished but I sincerly hope that the extreme feminists don't thrown them under a bus to stike a blow for the cause.
And about having sex at young ages I wonder if this girl's curiosity got the better of her but now has buyer's remorse. But don't hold your breath on getting that same level of media coverage if it turns out she lying Rufus. By then the media will have moved on to the next hot story since they only stay with a story long enough to score ratings.
November 20th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Amen, Danny. What is so sad is that on the CNN comment section, so many MEN are buying into this rush to judgment. Wake up, guys! That could be you or your son!
This underscores the grave disservice the news media does to men in covering rape allegations. The way these stories are written, even when they say "alleged" rapist, or state that the accused denies it, the mere fact that they are giving it all this coverage suggests to the reader it HAS to be true. And, of course, in the case of an adult male, his name is plastered all over the news, his life ruined regardless of the truth. I really want to see one of these false accusers punished in a way that will send a message. It hasn't happened yet.
I don't know if the girl is lying, but I'm assuming she is. It's ludicrous on its face.
November 20th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
8 and 9 year old boys?
It's not physically possible. Most boys aren't ready till at least 11 for any kind of sex at all. They've probably never even ejaculated before.
Apparently, girls are now learning that they can falsely accuse males for attention and sympathy at a much younger age.
November 20th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
[...] Background: An 11-year-old Georgia girl claims that an 8-year-old and two 9-year-old boys kidnapped and raped her, and they have been criminally charged. While the girl sounded credible during the brief CNN interview, there are several elements of the case which call her account into question. To learn more, see my blog post Georgia Child Rape Case Has Some Problems (Part I). [...]
November 20th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
...The reason the duke false rape made it through the anti-male lace curtain of media censorship is because the feminist juggernaut thought the duke case was irressistable food to fuel more hysteria and agit-prop!!
..The feminist juggernaut swallowed the duke case whole....Then found out after it was deep in the belly of the media feeding frenzy that ,in fact the duke case was not food to fuel the wheels of rape agit-prop...but quite the contrary, ..It was a lie!!...But it was allready in the belly, and they couldn't puke it up!!
November 20th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
The one comment that the girl made I found suspect. I have not made a decision yet but I thought it odd that she said the boys had a rope like thing almost indicating a noose. I was almost as though she was searching for that word but could not find it. With all the "hate crimes" being committed lately with a noose, it just struck me as some what peculiar.
I would like to study the clip a little more. . .
But hey what about the terrible guy that gave two free tickets that he and his daughter were going to use until his daughter became ill, to the underprivileged girls for the Hanna Montana concert? He must be a pedophile looking for a piece . . .
Rock on! Play it forward dude you are one of my heroes!
b
Glenn lets see this good story posted on your site!!!
November 20th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
I'm shock simply because if they would have killed her they would be also charge as adults, However, men are always guilty in these case, even if they are proven to be innocent of all the charge, this charge will follow them for life now.
November 20th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
I'm not saiding they should have killed her, but it funny how the da decides what crime they will let kids be charge as juv, or adults..
I will bet in the years to come this will be added as a charge that juveniles will be charge as adults.
if kid can be charge as adults then would do we have a juvenile court systems.
I simply don't believe this at all. even today if two kids play doctor and do I show you if you show me there will be charges filed against the boy. it wrong.
November 20th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
...ever see the movie, "Havoc"? Toward the end of the story, there is a pretty good portrayal of how a guy involved in consensual sex can nonetheless be hauled off on rape charges...
November 20th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
There was a movie I cannot think of the name if someone knows it please tell me, it was a true story about an affluent man walking home through central park had to urinate. All the bathrooms were locked due to vandalism so he discreetly went to a tree. A Mounty arrested him for indecent exposure and he was released. He was later picked up for rape due to his now available picture. ROR'ed picked up again for another rape, ROR'ed again pending trial this happened like 6 times. He was in jail when the las rape occured. Six women fingered him and he was the wrong man. The rapist did resemble him. His marriage was destroyed, he was fired, his wife divorced him, she of course got the kids because he was a rapist and to this day he cannot get a decent job or even hold one for long.
b
November 20th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
hmmm. I can imagine the level of depression these men must endure. How do they survive?
November 21st, 2007 at 4:44 am
HMPH! I'm much bigger than the woman who DID rape me. Size isn't a factor if drugs are used.
There's something which is not right here and I do not know what it is.
November 21st, 2007 at 10:22 am
...pankaj...most men just roll over and play dead!!
...some fight back!!
November 21st, 2007 at 7:08 pm
For those who doubt that boys of 8 and 9 are physically capable of rape, you might want to know that even male infants get erections (see, for example: http://www.blingo.com/search?q=%22children%22+%2B+%22erections%22). It doesn't matter if the boys can actually ejaculate or not. All a boy needs is an erection with which to forcefully penetrate a girl. So if you're asking whether a boy of 8 or 9 is *sexually* capable of rape or sex (i.e. - can he get an erection), then the answer is YES. However, we still cannot know whether or not what occurred in this particular case was consensual "sex play" among children, or forced sexual assault on the girl. I think that jumping to either conclusion is NOT the public's job; the case will be tried in court.
November 21st, 2007 at 9:01 pm
The worst of this is that there now has been a gag order given by a judge so we will likely never find out any more and we are all dealing with pure conjecture.
b
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:07 am
Most nine year old boys are NOT capable of raping an 11 year old girl!
To rape someone requires two key elements: the ability to achieve and sustain an erection for forceful pentration, AND the strength and agility to overpower and undress another person. (and the ability to do both at the same time).
With very few exceptions, most boys of that age have not reached puberty, so sustained erections ain't gonna happen, because the hormone levels are not there. The girl in this case looks to be around 5 feet tall, and, on average a nine year old boy would be about 6-8" shorter than that; she also looks to be around 85lbs, and most 9 year old boys weigh, on average, closer to 70 lbs.
US Average height/weight 11 year old girl = 58.5" 87.5Lbs
US Average height/weight 9 year old boy = 53.5" 69 lbs
Now being 5" taller is not a big deal, but being 20% heavier makes a big difference. Adjusted to adult terms, that would mean an unarmed five foot tall 138lb man, could subdue a six foot tall 175 lb woman.....not likely. He would not have the strength or mass to do it.
So this would be a freakishly large nine year old....over five feet tall and over 100lbs to have the height and strength advantage on this girl. And he would be somebody who reached puberty before 99% of the US population.....
So if there are freak-of-nature five-foot beard-wearing 100lb nine year olds in Georgia, I have not seen them.
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:57 am
[...] Glenn Sacks noted, something about this case seems off. Apparently there was another girl playing with [...]
November 22nd, 2007 at 2:06 pm
[...] she was not alone with the boys at the time of the attack; a girlfriend was there with her. Faced with a Divorce? Need Help with Family Law? Ask Glenn Georgia Child Rape Case Has Some Problem... Georgia Child Rape Case Has Some Problems (Part II) The second link contains the following [...]
November 22nd, 2007 at 2:35 pm
There are many problems with our society. I will point out a few in relation to this case, along with some pertinent questions and remarks. 1) Our judicial system has become (or always has been) a competition rather than everyone working together to find the truth. The officer stated, "The girl's story is credible so we go ahead with the charges." Did a child psychologist separate and interview all three boys and determine if their story is credible? I have heard nothing on this. Why have I heard nothing on this? If they determined it was consensual, why isn't the girl being held as well? Have the girl 'friends' at the supposed slumber party been interviewed? Is all this information yet to be released? 2) Why are these boys being held with no proof other than one girl's word? Is a nine year old boy a flight risk? Is he a danger to society? Why does our society continue to use the term 'innocent until proven guilty'? 3) Puberty: the girl may have reached it at 11; none of the boys have reached puberty. Ok, ejaculation is not required, I agree. Without having reached puberty it is very unlikely for a young boy to become aroused by the sight of a female and achieve and maintain an erection. Did they perhaps use an object (finger or?) and this is called rape? Yes, a possibility. 4) HAVE THEY RESEARCHED THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN? Since the girl has (more likely) reached puberty it is far more likely that her mind has entertained sexual thoughts. When I was a child the girls and boys played many different games, like 'cooties'. When a girl became upset for what ever reason, she had an uncanny ability to get the boy into trouble with an adult. The girl could make tears flow down her face, her face becomes red and puffy, all the while she is lying through her teeth. All us boys knew the girl was lying but even four of us had no credibility against one crying girl. I know they cannot all do this but many of them can; how I have no idea. I only hope the interviewers had enough knowledge to dig deep into this girls mind to determine this is indeed the truth. 5) Is anyone considering the trauma these 'incarcerated' children are currently experiencing? IF THEY ARE INNOCENT, WHO WILL PAY FOR THIS? Even if they are guilty, our society has gone nuts. These are small children and they are being abused. Would the same treatment be given to three small girls? 6) Let's get real here. The 'other two' boys did not kidnap the girl. If this whole story is true, they were playing and it got carried away. Are the other two boys being held because they should have had the integrity and knowledge to run and tell someone? At the very least, hold only the boy that commited the alleged rape. Once again, a danger to society? a flight risk? There are some laws our society has created that need to be changed. Who will do this? 7) The girl was being hit. Were there marks on her body? If so, they must take into consideration that even young children can play rough. 8) Were they not playing tag at one point? This may sound goofy, but you mean to tell me that these kids were continually running away from each other but all of a sudden the biggest child could no longer run away? She was so very scared of the rope thing? How in the heck did they get her clothes off. I saw the video. Let's say she was so scared of the rope thing that she took off her top. What about her pants? Did she have a dress on? Too frightened to run after playing tag? I just don't get it at all. Even if they had a knife I would have ran. Something is wrong with this story. I can't wait for the REAL answers to this one.
November 24th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Robo_geek Says:
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:07 am
Most nine year old boys are NOT capable of raping an 11 year old girl! ................................................
======
In the rest of your post you are assuming a substantial amount . . .
In your statement above the function word is MOST thereby making it not impossible, just improbable.
b
November 24th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
If the amendment to the constitution (1914) had gone through that made divorce illegal all these issues would be moot . . .
b
November 27th, 2007 at 12:37 am
I think the girl is lying through her teeth. I do not buy one bit of her story at all. She knew she should not have snuck out of her house after dark, but did it , got caught and now she has to blame someone else for her bad conduct because Mommy's feminist friends would expect it . What a crock of bull.
November 27th, 2007 at 8:34 am
I hope they make the girl take a lie detector test. It is a shame that she waited so long to come forward and the DNA may not be fresh or may nonexistent. If she is found guilty of lying, I hope they charge her.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:51 am
I'm thinking sex play gone wrong among similar-aged peers. There isn't a big discrepancy in age here. If these boys are innocent, they will be forever marked as rapists because people will always be suspicious of them based on the allegation.
However, remember that coercion plays a key role in this, and this element may have been present (she said the boys threatened her with a rock). That could seal the boys' fate, even if penetration never occured. Outrage at the possibilty that this could be true will - and has - created hysteria in which they will be judged by. The facts may never surface as a result.
I, too, am horrified at the number of men who have crucified these boys rather than come to their defense, guilty or not.
They are still children, 8, 9, and 11yo - a lot of people seem to have forgotten that.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:30 am
This is just more male hatred that Fems legislate for and intimidate sissy men judges and male-hating women judges to go along with. If two men went in saying there was a fight and one said he hit me in the jaw and the other said I did'nt then the courts would say that there is no proof and let it go. In fact, the police and district attorney would not even listen to such talk. But because it is a female making an allegation then all of a sudden no evidence is needed. This is just Feminist inspired male hatred that I have been talking about for years and years. We live in a Feminist male hatred country. And most guys are too dumb to fight back. Start by reading The Myth of Male Power and wake up and smell the coffee guys!
November 28th, 2007 at 10:39 am
Anthony said: "If two men went in saying there was a fight and one said he hit me in the jaw and the other said I did'nt then the courts would say that there is no proof and let it go. In fact, the police and district attorney would not even listen to such talk."
I'm afraid your analogy is faulty, Anthony. The proper comparison would be, "If two boys went in saying there was a fight, and one said he raped me [or shoved an object up my ***, or whatever]..." Then, yes, the legal result would have been EXACTLY the same. See the difference, now?
November 29th, 2007 at 7:29 am
http://ktla.trb.com/news/local/ktla-4yearoldhoax,0,1766093.story?coll=ktla-newslocal-1
11 isn't the youngest they can go...I can't help but think momma must have either used this at one time herself or left Lifetime on the TV.
Expect to see this more and more, Crystal got away with nary but a tomato to the face as far as her 'reputation' goes during Duke Lacrosse. The near-lack of punishment will only encourage more.
November 29th, 2007 at 8:26 am
Bingo, Vinz. One of these liars needs to have the book thrown at her, in a nationally publicized case, to discourage others.
February 4th, 2008 at 5:55 am
The assault aspect and not the sex should be what the public and parents focus on. Sex causes far less death or serious injury than violence. You can't teach a dead kid morals and its a lot harder to do that when they are in jail. Don't cloud the real issue, try the kids for assault not rape. Kids on both sides will be severely damaged by the degrading moral tauntings of opposing adults if rape charges are pursued. Assault is something both sdies of the kids can absorb more easily.
First this insane to try for rape on several counts. Legally the fundamental principle is that kids can have neither consent nor criminal intent, only "lessons" and therapy. No matter what label is put on them in court that is all that can happens.
It incorrect to think the males were too young to sustain "heat" for a couple minutes. That physically doesn't require lots of testostrone -- just watch a gelded horse. The hormones merely increase the likelihood of interest. Intellectual interest and combined with criminal thrill works too; which is why chemical castration is not 100% effective. But I doubt rape was consumated unless a foreign object was used -- due to issues of inexperience and length. But that isn't the point; just as lack of pregnancy or disease doesn't void rape between adults.
However, if these 3 young not so gentle men merely had an attitude to violently attempting to take sex rather than just ask around until they found someone who said "yes"...well perhaps they need to remain in therapy until 18. Of course the public needs to provide juvenile mental training facilities graduated so the healing are separated from those not responding so well.
Also my personal experience says kids back in early 1960s conducted and enjoyed sexual cuddling with other kids as early as 4...though not necessarily reaching consumation. So kiddy sex likely goes to the dawn of humankind as curiously and the general sensuality of touch, but the frequency and degree of violence may well be new in kids that young.
Puberty comes a little earlier for females where dairy cows are industrialized with estrogen (though some states regulate lower levels than the 1970s they aren't eliminating it). As far as I know males aren't boosted very much -- but some do
Several of you got facts wrong when you said the second girl was with the purported victim during the alleged rape. The girl claims to have made the classic horror movie mistake and left her friend and entered the woods. How long between leaving and how far to enter the secluded area is unknown. However given the cops are proceeding tells me that the time and distance of separation from the other girl was plausible to cover a rape.
February 4th, 2008 at 6:02 am
The solution to childhood sex problems is clip off their little sex organs at birth and put the material into reproductive banks -- where when they are ready to have family it can be withdrawn. Several banks can be used to prevent loss in event of accidents.
ROFLMAO (sadly) because there are too many uptight folk who will take this seriously -- either to reach their morality goals or as admission of a conspiracy to abrogate their right to conspire to overthrow conservative morality.