Georgia Child Rape Case Has Some Problems (Part II)
November 20th, 2007 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & Families
Background: An 11-year-old Georgia girl claims that an 8-year-old and two 9-year-old boys kidnapped and raped her, and they have been criminally charged. While the girl sounded credible during the brief CNN interview, there are several elements of the case which call her account into question. To learn more, see my blog post Georgia Child Rape Case Has Some Problems (Part I).
I read this article and watched the video tape and almost fell off my chair. In the story, one of the boys' fathers said that if there was sex between his son and the girl, it was consensual.
When asked for a response, incredibly, Police Chief Michael Wilkie of Acworth (pictured) told CNN that because children that young cannot legally consent to sex, "we have to go with the charges we have"--in other words, the rape charges. So let's say that the 11 year-old girl and one of the boys did have consensual sex. Because children cannot legally consent to sex, that means that the girl has been raped and the boy is a rapist? Even though they're both children? Even though the girl is considerably older than the boy?
The full story is below. The video link is here.
Three boys, 8 and 9, charged with raping 11-year-old girl
CNN, 11/19/07
MARIETTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Three boys, ages 8 and 9, were charged Monday with raping an 11-year-old girl last week, court officials and police said.
"Never in my 20-plus years of law enforcement have I conceived of something like this," Police Chief Michael Wilkie of Acworth, Georgia, told CNN.
Clad in blue jumpsuits, the two 9-year-olds and one 8-year-old appeared in court in Cobb County, north of Atlanta, on Monday afternoon and were ordered to remain in custody until a further hearing. Family members were in court for their appearance, which was closed to reporters.
Wilkie said the girl told investigators she was raped Thursday evening. She was examined by doctors after her family reported the allegation late Saturday, and investigators questioned her extensively on Sunday, he said.
The father of one of the boys told The Associated Press that no force was used against the girl, and said the allegations have been leveled because the accuser "didn't want to get in trouble with her parents."
But Wilkie said children that young cannot legally consent to sex, "so we have to go with the charges we have."
He told the AP one of the boys was accused of threatening to hit the girl with a rock before the alleged assault.
He also said the investigation is "far from over," and investigators are looking into claims that after the alleged attack, the girl talked about it with her friends at a slumber party, the AP reported.
"The investigators who are following up on this have had a lot specialized training of forensic interviews with children," Wilkie told CNN. "We've sent them to a number of courses for this, and so we're confident that we've done that part of the investigation as best as we can. We think her story at this point is credible and that's why we went forward with the warrants."
He said investigators have lined up counseling for the girl, "and we'll follow up on this and hope that it comes to as best a resolution at the end as we can."
The girl's mother told WGCL-TV in Atlanta, "They do need to be taught a lesson because if they do it to her, they could do it to somebody else. And who knows when they become teenagers what they can do to other girls."
Cobb County District Attorney Pat Head told reporters the current rape charges against the boys would be replaced with juvenile charges, since they are too young to be prosecuted on felony charges. Under Georgia law, juvenile defendants must be at least 13 before a case can be transferred to the adult system.
The juvenile charges could bring up to five years probation and time in a state youth home if the boys are ruled delinquent.
Juvenile Court Judge A. Gregory Poole imposed a gag order on participants in the case, limiting further explanation, Head said.
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November 20th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
"When asked for a response, incredibly, Police Chief Michael Wilkie of Acworth (pictured) told CNN that because children that young cannot legally consent to sex, "we have to go with the charges we have"--in other words, the rape charges. So let's say that the 11 year-old girl and one of the boys did have consensual sex. Because children cannot legally consent to sex, that means that the girl has been raped and the boy is a rapist? Even though they're both children? Even though the girl is considerably older than the boy?"
Quite possibly the most vile, misinformed, misandrist nonsense that I have had the displeasure to read so far this year! How is it that through consensual sex, an 8- or 9-year old boy can be held any more liable than the 11year-old girl?
In this case, everyone directly involved was equally "guilty" of criminal action.... that is to say, not at all!
Which sort of backwards, male-hating Neanderthals don't get it?
Should the mother of the 11-year-old girl involved feel any more outrage than the mothers of the 8- and 9-year old boys?
Apparently the feminazi dogma that "all males are rapists" cannot start early enough in a boy's life to suit those hell-hags!
To hell with the Jenna six. Free the Cob County Two!
November 20th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
Quite possibly the most vile, misinformed, misandrist nonsense that I have had the displeasure to read so far this year! How is it that through consensual sex, an 8- or 9-year old boy can be held any more liable than the 11year-old girl?
The same way that 13-17 year old boys are hold more accountable for their actions than 25+ year old women.
Should the mother of the 11-year-old girl involved feel any more outrage than the mothers of the 8- and 9-year old boys?
Have you also noticed the gender-baiting in the articles? Girl is represented by mother, boy is represented by father? You will supposedly feel less sympathy for the boy because his words come from a male.
November 20th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Demonspawn Says:
November 20th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
Have you also noticed the gender-baiting in the articles? Girl is represented by mother, boy is represented by father? You will supposedly feel less sympathy for the boy because his words come from a male.
======
And an angry dangerous male at that, who furthermore did not want to be identified.
Yes I would be angry too and people have to STOP interpreting angry with wrong, after all the feminists have been angry for decades. . .
b
November 20th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
...America has a dark past with rape hysteria....Prior to the case of the scottsborro boys...men could not believe women could lie about something so vile and nasty!!...And alot of men were lynched because of the rape hysteria!!
Through the constant exposure to rape agit-prop everywhere one turns...were back in the grips of klan like rape hysteria!!...
goto...menscollegeactivist.org for more on rape hysteria and subsequent klan type violence!!
November 20th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Again let me state (as in part 1) that for me the jury is still out. It is not impossible that these boys forced her, and it is not impossible that she is lying.
b
November 20th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
...yes bernie..the jury is being formed!!
But to deny America has a dark past with Klan type rape hysteria...Is akin to one who is a hollocaust denier!!
menscollegeactivist.org
November 20th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
what policeman basically says is that a girl since she is a child cannot consent because she is not capable of making a decision of what it entails. But, when it comes to boys, even though they are couple of years younger - they should be prosecuted. When did boys that young understand the implications of sex and rape?
It is a classic eye for an eye analogy. You raped the girl, so now the system are gonna rape you - and hold on - it will never stop till you live.
November 20th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
The one thing that really jumped out at me on this report was that, incredibly, the acts and "perps" are never referred to as "alleged". My wife and I often laugh at the news reports that sprinkle the word "alleged" so liberally throughout stories that you start to wonder if there's actually anything to report! Even the notorious Rugby team got the use of "alleged" throughout their ordeal. Apparently 8-9 year old boys are guilty immediately in the eyes of the media so they don't have to worry about silly things like “allegations”, the MSM can simply jump straight to "facts". Sure wouldn’t want to assume they’re innocent until proven guilty, would we?
November 20th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
I think you guys are missing several points here.
It’s not so much that this girl was allegedly raped by a 9 year old boy standing an impressive 45 inches tall and weighing a whopping 40 pounds with a broken wrist.
Never mind that a boy that young can’t even have sex, and any consensual grappling that may have transpired, was probably just play acting what they’ve witnessed their parents doing on the couch.
The point is it’s great work for the police, medical examiners, child psychologists, and a whole host of other legal and health care professionals who will do their very best to blow this out of proportion.
They will give this young girl so much attention for this alleged rape that she may decide to make a career out of false allegations. She will have a child, and then accuse the wrong man of being the father, and we will see her on the Maury show getting a DNA test.
She will be passionately proclaiming the innocently accused man of being the father until the DNA results are reveled to expose her as an unconscionable liar. Then Maury will put his arm around her and begin codling this degenerate liar, vowing to track down the dirty bastard who got her pregnant, no matter how many innocent men he destroys in the process.
Then there’s the racial aspect of this case as well. This is a young “white boy” being accused of raping (or consensual fondling) a young black girl. The Duke Rape case was blown so far out of proportion because it was a white on black allegation. The same will apply here. There will be enormous pressure on law enforcement to send a message to “white boys” everywhere that you better not even think about putting your hands on a black girl, consensual or not.
The worst part of all this is that the boy accused of the actual crime, will likely spend the rest of his childhood in juvenile facilities for something he didn’t do.
On the other hand, if the boy gets lucky and the girl fesses up to the lie, nothing will happen to her. She will carry on her life as if nothing ever happened.
November 20th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
menscollegeactivist.org Says:
November 20th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
...yes bernie..the jury is being formed!!
But to deny America has a dark past with Klan type rape hysteria...Is akin to one who is a hollocaust denier!!
menscollegeactivist.org
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No argument here just for me I cannot come to a decision until I have more information
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November 20th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
yes the get her counseling and help, and don't forget to calla lawyer for personal injury too. Which I bet will happen before the court trial.,, if it was consents sex, and if they can't legally give consent then shouldn't the older child be charge...oops i forgot the older was a female and they don';t lie.
November 20th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
HelpMeGodI'mMale Says:
November 20th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Sure wouldn’t want to assume they’re innocent until proven guilty, would we?
_________________________________________
That is a misnomer with our system. You are NOT innocent until proven guilty, that only happens when you are in court. The accuser (the problem with our system) is always presumed to be telling the truth and for the safety of society and the accuser the accused is put into "protective custody".
b
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November 20th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Anyone watch the video? This girl is supposdly raped, threatened with geath, and whipped with a rope
$ days later, no brusies to show the camera and no emotion.
Ever seen anyone testify to being raped? It is emotally drainng and heartwrenching, even months or yrs later
Here it has been 4 days and she isnt the slightest bit shaken up, emotional, or sad?
Its like she was reading a state report to her classroom for al the emotion in her voice
November 20th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
lujlp Says:
November 20th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
__________________
Yep I noticed that also
b
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November 20th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Read the comments on the CNN news page -- women AND men largely assume the "rape" occurred. Of course they'd assume that, or else why would the police have charged the little monsters? And why would CNN and the NY Times report it?
I am so tired of these most vile accusations being tried in the court of last resort, the maintsream news media, and then when the charges are dropped because they were rubbish from the outset, very little is said.
We really need for ONE of these false accusers to have the book thrown at her, to send a message that you don't mess with someone's life just because you're experiencing a hissy fit. And, no, I don't know if the boys did it, but I highly doubt it. And whatever the hell they did, I'd bet money it wasn't rape.
November 21st, 2007 at 4:42 am
The whole thing stinks: There's something not-right here and I do not know what it is.
November 21st, 2007 at 7:32 am
If the Duke case didn't convince every parent of a son in America that it is time to leave this country with your kids and not look back, then certainly this "case" should convince them.
November 21st, 2007 at 8:10 am
I agree that there is no way any sex was involved, consentual or not. These kids are too young. All that has occured here is that the boys will grow to distrust and most likely hate all women, weather they deserve it or not. And the girl will learn that she can say anything against any man. So, they should fit right in with todays society
November 21st, 2007 at 10:35 am
I don't know if a rape occurred here or not. There is something about this story that just doesn't ring true to me, but as the MSM is so poor in presenting all the details on a case, I'm going to hold off on forming an opinion on it.
The assumptions that are being made regarding this case are worrying to see, even more so given that the 'Duke LAX' and a few similar recent cases should have made more of an impression on the public regarding rushing to judgement. Unfortunately that could be said to apply to some of the comments above too.
I can't blame the girl's Mother for believing her daughter - if she expressed any doubt or questioned her child's account then she'd be setting herself up for a big fall (and hurting the child even further) if it proves to be true. I know that I'd choose to believe my own daughter under similar circumstances and hope that I wouldn't be proven wrong to do so later, just as (of course) I would defend a son in the same way that the accused's Father is.
Whatever turns out to have happened on the night in question, 4 young lives are going to be shattered as a result of the investigations. The boys will never have a normal life again and the girl will struggle to cope (either with the result of having been raped or with the false accusation hanging over her head). It makes me wonder why these stories have to be sensationalised quite so much.
Freedom of the Press is a valuable right, but it has to be tempered by responsibility. I struggle to see how the reporting (so far) is serving the public interest. In the case of juveniles, wouldn't it be better to wait until a conviction (or acquittal) is secured and THEN report? At least then a) the facts have a better chance of seeing the light of day and b) innocent parties are less likely to get smeared accross the national media.
As a final note, I do agree with those (above) who have questioned why the boys are being charged with rape if the reason for doing so is the girl's age and not that they have proof they used force (that's rape no matter what age someone is). If the sex was consensual / an experiment that the girl now regrets, then the rape law should be more applicable to her than to them, given she's the older and more mature party involved.
November 21st, 2007 at 11:50 am
By law in the state of Georgia, intercourse with a child under the age of 16 is rape. This is what the police captain was referring too. The real question is was it consensual or forced. If it was consensual then by law the little girl is just as guilty as the three boys are. If it was forced then the girl is not guilty.
With everything I have read or heard in the media, my speculation is the mother of this little girl found out that her daughter and friends had been doing things they should not be doing and went hysterical, knowing her daughter could not have done such a thing, and started questioning her about how this was forced on her. The daughter agreed to stay out of trouble with mom and now three little boys are going to have to suffer the consequences of this hysterical mother. One wonders what the other little girl had to say? We will never know because all Juvenile court hearing in this state are closed to the public and all records will be sealed.
November 21st, 2007 at 11:58 am
James Howard, you are correct. The media frenzy here is serving no valuable public interest; it is furthering the interests of the news outlets because it is sensational. And the depth of the reporting is suspect, since I've not seen any reporter delve into the question of how a boy that age could have committed "rape" as defined by the pertinent state statute.
But isn't it astounding that an eleven-year-old girl can claim little boys "raped" her and she is implicitly believed by the news media, and everyone else, without any adjudication and apparently without any supporting evidence beyond her serene ipse dixit? This, of course, is akin to the stereotypical Salem witch hunt where innocent women were burned at the stake just because someone cried "witch." Now, anyone who had the misfortune of being born male is a potential "witch" whose life can be destroyed at the whim of any woman who cries "rape." So very sad that an entire gender is placed at such risk, and there's nothing we can do about it.
November 21st, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Politicization of this particular incident
1. Mandatory sexual education (through school system) supporters are crawling out of the wood work, trying to enforce their brand of morality on people using this case as leverage.
2. People are blaming the father for even attempting to defend his son - asking questions like "How does a 8-9 year old even know about such things?" (implying they DID rape the girl, and using that to project that the parents of the boys are not responsible parents)
So much for innocent till proven guilty
November 21st, 2007 at 7:11 pm
Pankaj Says:
November 21st, 2007 at 1:41 pm
So much for innocent till proven guilty
=====================
Se:
Bernie Misiura Says:
November 20th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
November 21st, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Maybe I'm just obtuse, but it seems to me that if she's too young to consent to sex, they certainly are. So the "rape" couldn't be carried out with their consent, which makes it an involuntary act. Hence, no crime.
I'm sure that would get shot down in court, but if this trend continues, sooner or later the question is likely to come up.
And Pankaj, if there weren't mandatory sex ed in schools, I doubt these boys would even have known HOW to have sex with her, with consent or without. Some kids do hit puberty really early, so it's theoretically possible physiologically, but I know I certainly wouldn't have known how to do that at 9.
November 21st, 2007 at 8:50 pm
For those of you who do not think children know how to have sex, do not think in terms that we grew up with, because kids today are not to be underestimated they are much more sophisticated than we were at the age, some are even more sophisticated than we are now.
b
November 21st, 2007 at 10:17 pm
I am curious as to what evidence they have to demonstrate the boys raped this girl rather than had consensual sex or sex at all. Given their age there would not be much of anything left, and since the girl was examined days after the fact it is possible that anything that was there is gone. My guess is that they are going purely on this girl's statements and possibly some marks on her body left by being on the ground or whatever it is she says she was struck with. However, in terms of actually proving she was raped, if the statements she gave are what she stated in the video before, she sounds as if she is had sex, but was not forced.
As for the size issue, even though I extend the benefit of doubt to child victims, the boys' relative size compared to the girl's honestly makes me think she is lying. I live with a 7-year-old who weighs more than the 8-year-old in this case, and he can barely control his dog who only weighs about ten or fifteen pounds more than him, let alone restrain him. And according to the statement the girl gave in the video, only one boy "raped" her while the others watched.
Oddly enough, this case is reminiscent of the Ryan Harris case in Chicago where the police emphatically stated that two boys, who are relatively the same size as the boys in this case, raped, dragged and murdered Ryan Harris for her bike. That later proved to be untrue and it was actually someone else, but the "evidence" they claimed to have was enough to get the boys locked in a mental hospital and placed on house arrest until the charges were dropped.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:21 am
This case stinks worse than a slaughterhouse!
The girl and her mother were interviewed by a local news channel and and described the attack on camera. Think about that....your child has been (allegedly) kidnapped and violently raped, and you talk to the news crew and let HER talk to the news crew and describe what happened on the air? Somebody's just aching to get on Jerry Springer, methinks.... (the news channel did not show their faces).
She changed her story...on the video she says they were hitting her with a ROPE, and the police interviews speaks of her being threatened with a ROCK....so which is it? How do you force somebody bigger than you to the woods by threatening them with a rock, or hitting them with a rope? I mean you just walk or run away, no? One news story said she was 'lured' to the woods, while another said she was forced to the woods.
And, again, whilst holding a rock, a rope, or similar unweildy object, how would you perform an actual rape? The story says that two of the boys watched, whilst one did the rape....so did they hold the rock or rope? And exactly how culpable are the other boys? Did they each have their own set of rocks and ropes? (Some sort of organized posse of rock and rope toting criminals)
It was reported that she's almost two feet taller than the other boys, and one has a broken arm....and the attack was reported after the slumber party?? Sounds like she was telling her friends a little too much information, then some other (responsible) parent called her mama. And she's stuck.....
On the TV interview, she stated very calmly that "they raped me against my will and all". Ummm, her mother needs to coach her a little better than that.
And WTF is with the prison jumpsuits and shackles for these boys in court?? Is there some quaint notion of 'innocent until proven guilty? As if one of these 40" tall 40lb boys is gonna wrestle the court baliff to the ground......
A nine year old boy is not physically capable of raping an 11 year old girl. Even if he has hit puberty earlier than 99% of his peers so his equipment works, he's just not big enough and strong enough.
The local news has been dead silent on this in the past several days, which most likely means that the case is gonna fall apart.
Meanwhile, do they hold these little boys in custody, or do they get released on bail?
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:30 am
Robo_geek,
Don't fix the prosecutions case by giving them hints of where the loop holes are.. Leave them behind so the defense can tear them up. If we talk about such things, there is a tiny possibility that the prosecution/accuser could cook up her defense against the holes.. Just kidding, but I did notice those points and you are right about all of those.
If the girl did in fact make this up to get out of trouble, that would effectively mean that she should have been the "good" girl according to her mom's wish. Maybe CPS should put her in "protective custody" away from her abusive mother.
November 22nd, 2007 at 10:06 am
This just seems to be the way it goes, during my time in the military we had it constantly drilled in our head that if a man and woman were intoxicated and had sex, only the male was culpable for his actions. even though men can "perform" when well well past the legal limit, it didnt matter, the male was the responsible party.
same thing going on here to an extent in my eyes, saying children cannot consent only means young women and girls cannot consent, it does not apply to males of any age.
November 22nd, 2007 at 10:53 am
Robo Geek said:
"The local news has been dead silent on this in the past several days, which most likely means that the case is gonna fall apart"
****************************************************
Much as I'd like to think this too, it's more likely that they've fallen silent because of the gagging order the Judge has slapped on the case (not before time - if only to protect the boys from further harm if this all proves to be false).
As I wrote above, cases like this shouldn't be reported ahead of a verdict. I'd also like to see that extended so that all criminal defendants' names are kept out of the media (adult rapists, murderers, shoplifters you name it). There have been WAY too many miscarriages of Justice which have been made far far worse because an innocent man or woman's name has been splashed accross the front pages of the press.
Ask Colin Stagg, or Barry George (when they finally release him) or Stuart Gair or even Sally Clark what it was like to be condemned in the media before they were later proven innocent at re-trial. How difficult must their lives have been to rebuild, especially as the publicity given to their acquittals was minimal compared to that on their original convictions?
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:57 am
3 questions for the DA:
1. Why don't you use the "dominant agressor" standard that feminists have been arguing for in mutual domestic violence cases?
2. In this case the girl is much larger than the boys, and if they had sex with her, then it follows that she had sex with them - underage and physically smaller? If the boys are found innocent, are you going to charge the girl?
3. If the 11-year-old girl had been fooling around (with sexual contact) with 8- and 9-year old GIRLS, who if anyone would you be charging then?
November 24th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Robo_geek Says:
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:21 am
The local news has been dead silent on this in the past several days, which most likely means that the case is gonna fall apart.
========================
Bernie Misiura Says:
November 21st, 2007 at 9:01 pm From Part 1
The worst of this is that there now has been a gag order given by a judge so we will likely never find out any more and we are all dealing with pure conjecture.
b
December 5th, 2007 at 10:49 am
There is an interesting case of reference, especially regarding the different treatment of boys and girls concerning "detention" of the accused.
http://toysoldier.wordpress.com/2007/12/01/15-year-old-girl-rapes-several-young-boys/
Citation:
A 15-year-old Paradis girl has been arrested after allegedly having inappropriate sexual contact with five boys under the age of 11, according to the St. Charles Parish Sheriff’s Office.
The girl was arrested Monday after she allegedly showed up at a party at the home of one of the victims, where the assault occurred on Nov. 14.
The girl, whose identity is being withheld because of her age, was booked with three counts of aggravated rape and five counts of indecent behavior with a juvenile.
A spokesman for the Sheriff’s Office said the aggravated rape counts stemmed from the ages of three of the victims and that there was no indication that there was violence involved.
The girl was later released into the custody of her parents.
The mother of one of the victims contacted the Sheriff’s Office after hearing about the incident.
Regards,
Joe
January 5th, 2008 at 2:51 am
If sexual contact between the 11 year old girl and 8 and 9 year old boys should be found to be consensual, shouldn't the girl be charged with sexual molestation due to the age difference?
January 21st, 2008 at 5:43 pm
I agree with you Robo_geek 100,000%. When the news was interviewing her and her mom, she stumbled over words, which lead me to believe the mom or someone had coached her and they did a bang-up job! I don't think an 8 year old can overpower an 11 year old and rape her without some help. The two 9 year olds were merely look-out boys. They were there to send them a signal if someone was approaching. They didn't even get in on the action, but yet they're being held too! She even went to a slumber party afterwards and talked about it with her friends! That child WOULD be traumatized IF she was raped. She has been lying from the beginning.