'I was on the board of the women's resource center. I didn't agree with the annual 'Take Back the Night' program proclaiming the victimhood of women'
February 29th, 2008 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & FamiliesBackground: I discussed the recent controversy over the feminist "1 in 4 college women are raped" myth, see my recent blog post 'It’s a lonely job, working the phones at a college rape crisis center...you wait for the casualties to show up but no one calls'. I noted that "the ladies at www.Feministing.com have responded with boiling rage and obscenities, without attempting to factually critique Mac Donald's research and arguments. The Feministing blog post is LA Times: What rape crisis?"
Below is a blog comment on www.feministing.com by Ophelia Blake, a woman who identifies herself as a leader of a college Women's Resource Center. The WRCs are feminist-run centers designed to help college women who have been raped or assaulted, or who are having a variety of other problems. Ophelia wrote:
"When I was in college, I was on the board of the Women's Resource Center, and I am, of course, a feminist. But one thing I didn't agree with the WRC about was its annual 'Take Back the Night' program proclaiming the victimhood of women. Mac Donald is correct on this account:
"'Campus rape ideology holds that inebriation strips women of responsibility for their actions but preserves male responsibility not only for their own actions but for their partners’ as well. Thus do men again become the guardians of female well-being.'
"It's a very '50s mentality. Considering that the boy in the scenario the Harvard rape victim described was probably just as drunk as she was, what makes him the rapist and her the victim? The problem with the campus rape mentality is that it holds up the Laura-Session-Step idea that sex damages women. Calling it 'rape' is not empowering, it does in fact 'strip women of moral agency,' as Mac Donald said.
"Mac Donald's argument is that if one in four college women were in fact raped, then there would be a national crisis of the kind that demanded action, not just lip service from campus protest organizations. It takes a lot of doublethink to say the fact that so few rapes are reported is evidence for how many there really are...
"Saying that any woman who has had sex and can't remember was raped paints a picture of women as passive creatures who are acted upon. The guy might not remember what happened either, but no one would ever suggest she raped him, even if she initiated the sex."
One might think that Ophelia, being a feminist who had been part of the women's movement and feminist rape prevention efforts would get a little respect from the readers of Feministing. Apparently not. My favorite response was this gem from "Sera":
"Reason #500,000,000,000,000etc that Ophelia Blake is a fucking idiot...I hate you passionately now."
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February 29th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Saying that any woman who has had sex and can't remember was raped paints a picture of women as passive creatures who are acted upon.
But I thought that was one of the perceptions of women that feminists were trying to fight. So it is not empowering for a woman to get drunk and be free of all responsiblity while still holding a man responsible when he gets drunk. Yeah that right there is hypocisy.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Here is the radical feminist argument: Rape is the most underreported of all crimes. We know it's underreported because no one is reporting all these rapes that must be occurring. Which proves, of course, that rape is rampant on campus.
And I know the radical feminists don't like to talk about the LAW of rape (they like to make up their own definitions), but a young woman who is drunk is not incapable of consent in the context of rape. As a recent Mass. appellate court reiterated: "In determining whether a person is 'incapable of consenting' to sexual intercourse as a result of intoxication, the inquiry focuses on whether that person is "wholly insensible . . . in a state of utter stupefaction . . . caused by drunkenness . . . or drugs."
By THAT standard -- yes, if you drug a woman and she is essentially unable to function or passed out, and then if you have sex with her, it's rape. If she's tipsy, it is NOT rape.
Let's quit allowing them to dictate what "rape" is. The concept has been long-settled.
February 29th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
"Campus rape ideology holds that inebriation strips women of responsibility for their actions but preserves male responsibility not only for their own actions but for their partners’ as well. Thus do men again become the guardians of female well-being. It's a very '50s mentality."
Ophelia is a shrewd, forward thinking person. I think she is totally on the mark here. This type of policy is paternalism at its worst. It infantalizes women. It takes a Victorian approach, saying that women are children who cannot possibly be responsible for their own actions.
What Ophelia is really saying is that there should be genuine equality. How did feminism get so far away from this? How did it wind up being co-opted by neo-Victorians?
February 29th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
The FACTS of campus rape statistics can never trump feminists' FEELINGS about it. For most women, feelings are much more important than facts. Facts can cause cognitive dissonance, but feelings can never be contradicted. And, apparently, feminists like to feel bad and frightened.
Honestly, I have come to view people who identify as "feminist" to be suffering from a crippling psychological disorder. It prevents coherent, rationale thought just as completely as schizophrenia. Male feminists are the most dramatically affected. The voices in their heads never stop the mantra, "women are superior victims, women are superior victims, women are ... ."
February 29th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
As far as I'm concerned, it's nothing but good news when there is a rift within the feminist movement.
February 29th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Like Tony S, I also think Ophelia hit it right on the mark.
I don't get Sera's comment though. What is the reason she is giving?
February 29th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
There was a time in college I was very very drunk at a party. A girl I didn't know who was also very drunk tried to have sex with me. I was too drunk too stand up straight, so it was clear that other parts of my anatomy weren't going to stand up. Does this counted as attempted rape?
No. We were both equally intoxicated and both made an equally poor decision.
Thank goodness nothing actually happened because otherwise lord knows what could have been said after the fact with no corroborating witnesses.
February 29th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
One of the times in my life I felt most hurt was when my sister said to me: "you always hit me". I don't know where she got this from and I was just reeling. Everybody that sees me with my family always says how nice I am to my siblings (I am the oldest).
When I was 14 I said to my parents that I wanted to take up a martial art of some kind. My dad took me aside and told me gravely that my sister was worried that I would hit her if I started doing a martial art. I didn't know why she said these things. It seemed like a knee jerk-victimhood reaction. I felt really lonely and isolated, blamed and disbelieved.
And I forwent talking up a martial art out of concern for my sister. I think this is an interesting analogy to what is happening in society. Because we are so concerned for our sisters, we listen to their accusations about how we are not.
February 29th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
"Ophelia is a shrewd, forward thinking person. I think she is totally on the mark here. This type of policy is paternalism at its worst. It infantalizes women. It takes a Victorian approach, saying that women are children who cannot possibly be responsible for their own actions.
What Ophelia is really saying is that there should be genuine equality. How did feminism get so far away from this? How did it wind up being co-opted by neo-Victorians?"
Much of feminism is really just chivalry in disguise (the female damsel-in-distress paradigm).
Masculist XY
February 29th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
In response to Tony S Says …
I think they just figured out, along the way, that they could have the best of both worlds until men wise up. It seems we’ll have to bring them kicking and screaming into real gender equality.
Then they will probably curl up in the fetal position and cry for mommy and daddy to make things the way it use to be.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
I know why. Andrea Dworkin, Eve Ensler and their spawn, took over what was a noble and pure movement for gender equality, and turned it into a movement that makes woman infants instead of equals. And the more the whine, the more infantile they become.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Oh yeah check out feministing's Friday F*ck You. They complain about the 'gender segregation' of the academy awards, yet when someone mentions making a single 'best performer' award irregardless of gender, they bitch that then no women will get the award because of the 'patriarchy'. This just goes to show how child-like feminists are. They cry and beg for candy, then when they get candy they cry and beg for something else because they don't want candy anymore.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
George Says:"Like Tony S, I also think Ophelia hit it right on the mark.
I don't get Sera's comment though. What is the reason she is giving?"
I also think Ophelia is write on the mark (she sounds as though she has considerably more sense than the most famous literary Ophelia.)
Sera's comment is likely (I'm guessing) due to the fact that Ophelia often takes a similar stance against other feminist hypocrises.
I skimmed some of the comments on that over there and found them troubling in ways I am unable to articulate. I also found it odd that one in four of the commenters who we might reasonably assume are college students or college graduates were not claiming they had been assaulted as evidence of how full of it the MacDonald lady is.
Just more proof of the underreporting I guess.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
According to recent statistics about Ivy League privileged young women's life plans, 85% of the co-eds under-reporting being raped want to get married to a high-earning professional man and make and raise babies.
After forty years of feminist liberation theory and endless ideological propaganda, the elite of today's generation of young women want to create babies and manage a home in a monogamous heterosexual relationship with a man with a good job.
One would have to observe that -- with regard to producing results -- feminism is an extemely INEFFICIENT belief system, bordering on dementia.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
"I skimmed some of the comments on that over there and found them troubling in ways I am unable to articulate."
Do you -- or anyone -- have a link to Ophelia's original post and its comments. The hysteria of that one comment is troubling. I can handle disagreement, but the idea of calling someone an "effing idiot" is not an argment, its a childless insult.
The funny thing is, I went to college to get away from just this type of low-class culture I was raised with -- the type of ignorant, inarticulate thugs who used phrases like "effin idiot" when they were too stupid to formulate an opinion.
It's pretty disturbing to know this type of inarticulate thinking has now made it to the colleges. This makes my loutish uncles look refined by comparison, because they did not have expensive education.
February 29th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
In my view, mainstream feminists are amongst the violent and deadly people in our society. When I imagine a child predator I see female feminist thugs and other thugs in appropriately black robes. I'm sick of such people with so much blood all over the hands and persons whining and accusing others of violence. They make 'Jack the Ripper' look like a comparative 'good samaritan'.
February 29th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Tony S just follow the link to the story in Glenn's article. I am unable to link you directly to Ophelia's comment.
February 29th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Ophelia's remarks are a comment on the feministing blog article.
February 29th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Tony S & MXY
It's why I argue that there is no "feminism" any more. Rather that which describes itself as feminism is merely a differently branded version of the "patriarchy".
Many seventies feminists WERE on the ball. The thing that really stifled women was our culture's over-protectiveness towards them. The thing I liked about that earlier modern feminism was that it promoted women as strong, competent human beings. It was a positive movement that didn't rely on the sorts of "blame men for everything including my bad choices" games current "feminists" constantly play.
The radicals who won control of the movement from the late seventies onward were lazy and simple minded. In any politics it's always easier to run a negative, smear and fear based, campaign than to promote a positive forward looking view.
February 29th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
"... the radicals who won control of the movement ..."
They were not, and are not .... radical.
The real radicals were the Isadora Duncans way back in the 1920's -- but funny these brilliant women never get celebrated in feminism today.
Bureaucrats are never radical.
You could not find a radical female at NOW if your life depended upon it.
February 29th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
That this "one in four" figure is taken seriously by anyone always amazes me. Any woman gullible enough to believe this garbage should simply ask all her girlfriends if they've been raped. I guarantee that unless she asks the question in a rape survivors self help group she wont get anywhere the one in four figure. It also doesn't seem to occur to the women who believe these lies that they are doing themselves and their sex no favors by believing they have such a huge chance of something so awful happening to them. I'm surprised these women don't just buy a shotgun, lock the doors, bar the windows and stay home all day. Anyone who believes this crap should realize it has two primary purposes:one is to vilify men(after all no-one is suggesting these women are being raped by lesbians) and the second is to keep women angry and afraid so that they are more likely to accede to bizarre feminist wishes such as the clothesline project.
No, i'm not more worried about the girls than the vilification of my own sex, it's just that when a woman holds to feminism's "Its all about me, babe" philosophy she needs to hear how it hurts her, not how it hurts her boyfriend/husband/father/brother/son. Sad but true.
"Reason #500,000,000,000,000etc that Ophelia Blake is a fucking idiot...I hate you passionately now."
I'm amazed a feminist would admit that women are capable of hatred.
February 29th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Roy Says:
"According to recent statistics about Ivy League privileged young women's life plans, 85% of the co-eds under-reporting being raped want to get married to a high-earning professional man and make and raise babies."
This agrees quite well with some information I was told recently by a friend who graduated from harvard who informed me that pretty much all of the women she graduated with who ended up attending law school did so only to locate a husband.
As soon as they found a good guy and graduated they were quite content to settle into the role of mother and not work a day in the profession they spent thousands and thousands of their parents and future husbands earnings to gain competancy in.
Take a wild guess then why there might be a pay gap between men and women lawyers when the best and the brightest men remain in the field while the best and the brightest women opt out the moment they graduate and get married.
February 29th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Roy, your irony is noted and understood.
It's all relative I guess.
Those who were seen by most of the feminists I associated with in the seventies as radicals are now the mainstream.
February 29th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Thanks gwallan for understading the point.
Feminism represents itself as "radical," but if you look at the tradition of radicalism it is anything but creating a bureaucratic legal tyranny that seeks to conserve its power.
I've lived briefly in three countries experiencing revolutions.
The real revolutionaries are dead.
Feminism is like comic relief compared to real political struggle.
How many feminists have been shot at?
What would be the point?
Feminism will be written off as an insignificant academic masturbatory joke.
And, women will author that obituary.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Nathan,
notice that in your second entry above, what it amounts to is that feminists want more winners that are women rather than men. That's the bottom line obtained when putting both complaints together.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
DATE RAPE?
One of my sisters was in a relationship which was well on the skids. In desperation she concocted a plan which involved offering herself to be "designated driver" for a function thus allowing him, as usual, to drink himself almost catatonic. They had sex after that event, an activity he has no recollection of. She achieved her desired end, which was pregnancy, in the knowledge that his very traditional family would insist he marry her. She brags about this to this day, even in his presence.
Now class, can you say "power and control"?
February 29th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
How quickly they turn on each other to bring the wayward back into the flock! It really shows just how weak their position is (and how they realize this weakness). They don't believe in intellectual discussion - they believe in drum beating. This also brings new women (and men) into the fold by making everyone feel that they belong. Sad really...I feel sorry for them. I'm sure most of them think they are "progressive"....it seems to me that they are far too fundamentalist to be truly progressive!
March 1st, 2008 at 12:11 am
big surprise that all posts here are from MEN! You are all rapists and have probably raped a few "girlfriends" already. I hate you all, you are just more examples of why men should just be locked away from age 10 to at least 80 or dead, whichever comes first.
-a note from a woman who has been raped at least 25 times by various college boys who tricked me that they were nice but actually weren't [typical]
Andrea
March 1st, 2008 at 12:13 am
oh yeah I've actually been raped thousands of times by mens eyes, I can tell the way they look at me and other women what they are thinking, it's the almost the same thing.
March 1st, 2008 at 12:14 am
"big surprise that all posts here are from MEN! You are all rapists and have probably raped a few "girlfriends" already. I hate you all, you are just more examples of why men should just be locked away from age 10 to at least 80 or dead, whichever comes first.
-a note from a woman who has been raped at least 25 times by various college boys who tricked me that they were nice but actually weren't [typical]
Andrea"
I'm a virgin.
Am I still a rapist?
March 1st, 2008 at 12:23 am
Wow, Ophelia is sure fighting the good fight here. It is interesting too to watch as others chime in their agreement with Ophelia that they too are brought back into the fold (forcibly and against their will too).
I absolutely love this Q/A..It would be great if Ophelia would visit here as I'm sure we could have some great debates..
Faustus: "If someone was so wasted at a party that they didn't notice or remember you taking money from their wallet, did that person still steal?"
Ophelia: "Faustus, what if I was so drunk I gave you $100? Are you a thief for taking it?"
It shows the depth of her ability to see things in more then just black and white. So while I'm sure there is a lot she and I would not agree on in life, there is probably a good bit that we would. Perhaps she may even be an egalitarian-feminist (if I can put those two words together!).
March 1st, 2008 at 12:25 am
@Alex...
I suspect "Andrea" may in fact be "Andrew".
And, no, being a virgin is no defence. Actually if you tried to make that claim at Feministing they would immediately shift gear into mocking your either virginity or your inability to attract women.
March 1st, 2008 at 12:30 am
Andrea, I don't think rape means what you think it means.
March 1st, 2008 at 12:32 am
"And, no, being a virgin is no defence. Actually if you tried to make that claim at Feministing they would immediately shift gear into mocking your either virginity or your inability to attract women."
Ain't that the truth!
(Ignoring the fact that I've actually had more girl be attracted to me (one-sided) than I've had girls I was attracted to (one-sided or mutual). :P )
March 1st, 2008 at 12:36 am
Andrea (ie: blatant, self-righteous misandrist): "big surprise that all posts here are from MEN! "
Look around. There are a lot of women who post here: just look at the "Top Commentators" list. Davina and Celia are regulars. As is Rosemarie and a few key others. Unlike most feminist sites, we're open to all (as long as you are able to argue your point semi-logically).
Andrea: "a note from a woman who has been raped at least 25 times by various college boys who tricked me that they were nice but actually weren't [typical]"
Sorry if I am not so quick to believe you. Having sex with 25 guys who later break up with you does not make you a rape victim. Similarly, going out clubbing every week, going back to some drunk guys room, having sex with them, and then feeling bad about it the next morning is likewise not rape. If you have been raped at all, I feel bad for you...did you press charges? Again, the people here won't give you the benefit of the doubt. Many of us are true egalitarians - unlike most feminists (aka chivalrists) I have had contact with. That means both men and women get the same level of benefit of the doubt and you need to prove your POV.
Andrea: "oh yeah I've actually been raped thousands of times by mens eyes, I can tell the way they look at me and other women what they are thinking, it's the almost the same thing."
Oh please...you're a mind reader now? You're taking a lot on yourself. You should check out this thread:
http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=1871
March 1st, 2008 at 12:37 am
Alex: "I'm a virgin. Am I still a rapist?"
Sure thing: if you looked at her you raped her.
March 1st, 2008 at 12:41 am
I can't find the thread where Ophelia is doing battle, but it looks like she's committing the mortal sin of actually treating the two genders the same. You'd think she'd be getting credit for that there, but...
Anyway, I notice they're also complaining about David & Goliath about a shirt that says, "NO MEANS NO -- well, maybe if I'm drunk." And they absolutely SHOULD be complaining about that shirt. But I wonder where they were during the whole "Boys Are Stupid -- Throw Rocks at Them" fiasco. I seem to remember a lot of people telling us, "We have better things to do than protest a shirt."...
March 1st, 2008 at 12:42 am
Guys, I think Andrea is either a made-up person or a real person being sarcastic.
March 1st, 2008 at 12:44 am
gwallan, that's an interesting story. Let's add another layer in the form of a scenario. If a woman is raped and she becomes pregnant, she has every right to terminate the pregnancy. Many would say this is a right she should have (I would happen to agree - but I digress). Now, she obviously raped him by the feminists definition. Does this mean he should be able to terminate his responsibilities for the child? Hell no. I'm just guessing, but I think a judge would laugh him out of the room. Similarly, how many feminists would support his decision to terminate his responsibilities?
And they think women are the victims. At least they are taken seriously!
March 1st, 2008 at 12:55 am
Please rape isn't that bad on these campus, as they claim, however I'm willing to bet most of the members are those you see on Girls gone wild..
March 1st, 2008 at 1:25 am
Why don't men respect girls?
To be equal, you must take equal responsibility.
Otherwise, you're just a child.
To be equal, you must pay your own way.
Otherwise, you're just a whore.
March 1st, 2008 at 2:20 am
I have taken a look at the thread on feministing, and I just don't understand the logic these feminists use. They all attempt to pick apart McDonald's article, but fail to do so. They make extremely irational statements, they misquote their debators, and they ask for things that they do not want. Someone please explain to me how anyone could ask for dialogue on an important subject, get what they want, then make the dialogue difficult to maintain.
I cannot help but to lose respect for feminists every time I see them in a debate. MRA's are wonderful people. Way to go Guys!
Ronnie
March 1st, 2008 at 8:21 am
When I read Andrea's post, I had to wonder if it was for real or if it was simply someone mocking peurile feminist hate speech. It is scary to think there are people like that.
Roy, there are radicals and there are radicals. Some radicals are people who promote new ideas and difficult reforms. Then there are radicals who are simply people who promote extreme and whacky ideas. Feminists are radicals in the latter, negative sense.
It is funny how these fems are so spite-filled that they can't even stand other feminists who are more reasonable.
March 1st, 2008 at 9:15 am
Just a reminder guys, there has be a precedent set in WNY by a judge I will try to look up his name. The short of it is that women started using this "I was out at a bar drinking" in an attempt to admonish their actions and claim rape the next day after deciding that they have some regrets. The Judge consistently asked why this was rape and was answered by I believe the lawyer that her thought process was impaired by the alcohol so she could not make a proper decision of whether or not to sleep with this man. The judge then promptly turned to the man as said "were you drinking also?" "Yes." was the answer. "Case dismissed." came from the judge. "Objection" would come from the woman’s attorney. The judge would answer with "If alcohol impaired her judgment on whether or not to sleep with him, then his judgment was impaired by the alcohol whether or not he should sleep with her.
b
March 1st, 2008 at 9:16 am
First of all, I don't doubt for a minute that Ophelia was excoriated on feministing.com. The intellectual level on that site is extremely low. The first few times I visited, I really thought it was geared toward teenagers, and started looking for the Ashley Simpson record reviews.
Ophelia displays courage, but she misses the big picture. The fundamental strategy of modern feminism, which is:
> Claim liberation, grrrrll power, and strength when appropriate, and victimhood and oppression when appropriate.
March 1st, 2008 at 9:19 am
What does the feminist movement say about the national draft? Do they think that all women ages 18-25 should be drafted in a time of war?
March 1st, 2008 at 9:52 am
K:
Of course not. Women are too weak and dependent for the draft.
Get it?
March 1st, 2008 at 9:56 am
It's a hard cold fact that feminists have fostered through their ideology a rape culture within the family court system where men are raped of their children, homes and money on a daily basis...Because of the way the laws regarding sexual harassment, marriage, divorce and child support are interpreted and enforced in this day and age has made every single women a POTENTIAL FINANCIAL RAPIST irregardless of her refutation of feminist doctrine and her most likely false claim of not being like those females who do such terrible things to the men in their lives...
Like it or not Glenn the life of every male who chooses to become intimate with a female in this day and age hangs upon the slender thread of her word and willingness to pick up the phone, dial 911 and tell a single lie...The reality is that no male has any rights to his children, home and money if his spouse decides that she doesn't want him there and there is absolutely nothing he can do about it or prevent his financial ruin within the family court system once she has turned against him...
Rape is rape wether its a guy holding a girl down against her will or wether your a man being forcibly separated from your children, home and hard earned money...Now try throwing that in their faces the next time the feminists bring up the lie of 1 in 4 college coeds being raped...
March 1st, 2008 at 9:57 am
I could not find the Niagara Falls case but I did find this one, it sets a similar precedent.
Wednesday February 20, 05:34 PM
Drunk woman's rape claim dismissed
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/080220/3/43l0.html
The other defence counsel, Marcus Zintl, told the court in the opening, that Mr Schooner had stopped the sex as soon as he realised the woman had withdrawn her consent. Both Mr Schooner and the woman had been drinking beforehand. "Drunken consent is still consent even if it is soon regretted afterwards."
After the woman's evidence, Mr Stanaway told the court: "Having regard to the position we have now reached, and the crown's inability to rebut the defence of consent or reasonable belief in consent, I accept it is inappropriate for me to proceed further."
Judge Moran told the jury, "You could not properly convict this young man of rape in the light of the evidence you have heard. It is certainly my responsibility to take the charge away from the jury if I reach that view."
March 1st, 2008 at 11:24 am
I think "Andrea" proves that gender is indeed socially constructed.
As dishonest words on a screen.
Go ahead and dissemble "girl."
We're onto your schtick already!
March 1st, 2008 at 11:58 am
Please, people, Andrea's post, whether real or mocking, is not worthy of the attention that it's already gotten... and I'm giving more.
March 1st, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I just had this horrible thought.....
"Andrea" could be Senator Joe Biden anonymously reaching out to the men's movement!
Give it up Joe.
Write what you really intend to do to men with VAWA 2015-2020.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:43 pm
roy,
men? What men? I think they expect men to be extinct by 2012! At least, the heterosexual ones that keep raping young women with their eyes.
March 2nd, 2008 at 5:38 pm
I'd love to see Glenn raped and see what happens. He truly deserves to be tied down by a bunch of female rape victims and sodomized with a broomstick.
March 2nd, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Two wrongs make a right huh Kelly? Nice.
March 2nd, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Adds a new dimension to the word "sick".
March 2nd, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Kelly,
I wouls like for you to think about something.
Someone who is truly against a heinous crime such a rape would never wish it upon anyone else.
The reason you make such a horrid suggestion is because you have the mentality to use rape as a weapon against people you do not agree with.
People with such a perspective clearly aren't interested in helping anyone... they are only interested in spreading pain and misery as far and wide as possible.
Why should those rape victims be focusing their rage upon anyone but the specific individual who assaulted them?... Obviously if they are interested in physically harming an innocent party they aren't so much interested in the healing process as they are in continueing the cycle of abuse.
I'll make the distinction between people who share my world view and people who share your world view even more clear... even though what you said was absolutely disgusting and extremely offensive... I still hope that you don't have to deal with the terrible realities of sexually assault.
March 3rd, 2008 at 12:03 am
Tim Murray: I think the case you are talking about is the one that was overturned by the Mass. Supreme Court last week. The MASurpremes sides with the prosecution, and in effect created a new, lower standard for rape in that state. The effect is, it is now impossible for a man to know if a woman who has consumed any amount of alcohol at all is capable of giving consent for sex. Under the new standard, pretty much every hetro man in the state of Massachusetts can now be charged with rape. All the woman has to do is provide some evidence that she had at least one drink, and then just say she was too drunk to give consent. Unless the man had a medical technician and a psychologist along with him to evaluate his date's mental state at the time, there is no defense. It's impossible for him to know; the woman need not be falling-down drunk, fail a breathalyzer test, or indeed show any evidence of intoxication at all. She gets to decide, after the fact, if she gave consent.
There was an article about it on Men's News Daily last week (I think it was Monday), with an analysis of the decision by a lawyer. He was extremely pessimistic about the chances of any man being able to defend himself against a false accusation under this now court-established standard.
March 3rd, 2008 at 1:26 am
Kelly, That's really impaired. Please seek a good couselor. Not one from the "Oh you poor dear" school of validation.
- Ano N
March 3rd, 2008 at 10:47 am
"Reason #500,000,000,000,000etc that Ophelia Blake is a fucking idiot...I hate you passionately now."
Hey, it's their statistician! If she sees her shadow, we get six more decades of hyperbole.
March 4th, 2008 at 6:51 am
Kelly your fantasies are so gay....
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
;-)
March 4th, 2008 at 9:41 am
I think Kelly and, especially, Andrea are simply mocks to get you guys going. However, the "Andrea" mockery is indiciative of the mentality of a lot of women. For women like Ophelia, and myself, we lose all popularity with other women whenever we abandon that mentality. I find that most women are not interested in self-protection, and seek out victimization in hopes of finding a rescuer (typically fulfilled by someone who takes advantage of their advertised weaknesses) - this reinforces blame vs. pesonal responsibility. Unfortunately, I also find that a lot of men buy into the chivalry and want to be rescuers of these women. These men are in turn victimized by the women they seek to rescue, and don't understand why. The influence of perceiving women as victims and men as the night in shining armor runs deep among both genders, and I fight that mentality within myself because I was taught that very thing. Whats odd is that men are accused of being perpetrators yet at the same time expected to be the rescuer and protector. That's the black-and-white mentality that has brainwashed so many.
March 4th, 2008 at 9:55 am
When I was 19, I went to a college party and was really drunk. This attract (and equally drunk) woman hit on me. We ended up going to her room and having sex. The next day, she told me that she didn't know what happened. Her roommate starts telling her that she was raped. Next thing I know, people are looking at me funny. So I go talk to her and tell her that she hit on me. She denied it, until someone produced a picture from the party that showed her being quite flirtatious. If it weren't for that picture, the incident would have spiraled out of control.
The whole thing does paint females as helpless little victims who can't take care of themselves. While I agree that the feminists would logically be against this, it seems as if they are finding power through perceived weakness. It's the same treatment in divorce court, where women are the helpless victims, men are the evil perpetrators, and alimony represents how the poor victims can't take care of themselves.
I don't believe that women are helpless or victims, which probably makes me the better feminist. Oh, the irony.