Glenn Discusses Los Angeles County's New Campaign Against 'Deadbeat Dads' on KABC in Los Angeles
March 24th, 2008 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & Families
I discussed Los Angeles County's new campaign against '"deadbeat dads" on KABC AM 790 in Los Angeles on Thursday. The campaign is detailed in the Los Angeles Times’ New program targets 'Top 10' deadbeat dads (3/19/08).
The campaign is more or less the usual stuff -- stigmatizing noncustodial fathers, chest-thumping, vilifying so-called "deadbeat dads" with no recognition of the forces that often create child-support noncompliance, etc., etc. The list was announced by Los Angeles County District Attorney Steve Cooley and LA County Child Support Services Department Director Steven Golightly last Tuesday. KABC tried to set up a debate between Cooley and I but wasn't able to connect with him in time.
During the interview on KABC, several people called in with their bad experiences with child support enforcement. Some of the points I made included:
1) According to the California Judicial Council, 80% of California child support debtors earn poverty level wages.
2) According to a January report by the California Department of Child Support Services, there are four primary factors creating child support arrearages in California: “high child support orders established for low-income obligors”; “a limited number of child support orders adjusted downward"; “establishment of retroactive child support orders”; and “accrual of 10 percent interest on child support debt.” Given this, it's very hard to see how Cooley and Golightly can justify this punitive approach.
3) Over a quarter of California's child support arrears is interest.
4) Child support enforcement is modeling the last on the FBI's fabled "10 Most Wanted" list. During one of the newest telecasts, a child support enforcement official held up the FBI's Most Wanted list and there was a picture near the top of Osama bin Laden. I guess they want us to draw parallels between "deadbeat dads" and terrorists.
I can't remember whether I said it during the broadcast are not, but I will give Cooley and Golightly a little credit for the following--they did explain during their press conference that some of the “deadbeats” they’re pursuing may be able to use California’s Compromise of Arrears Program.
COAP allows some obligors to settle their artificially-inflated paper debts to the state for realistic amounts. I've discussed COAP before--it's another good project that former California legislator Rod Wright and Michael Robinson of the California Alliance for Families and Children helped create.
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March 25th, 2008 at 12:27 am
Regarding County Child Support campaigns against non-custodial fathers, and ways to correct abuses of Department. I did a study and investigation on the abuses of the Orange County Child Support Dept. after my husband whom I share three children with, was targeted by their department for increases. What I found is that they have an online Business Plan and that they are funded by the Department of Health and Human Services based on increases. They are supposed to go after dead beat dads. But I found out that they can't really get money from the dead beat dads, so they target (my opinion) non-custodial parents removing them of pre-existing hardship credits that they have received for their children (our children), removing the hardship credits to increase support to the custodial mother. The Commissioner, involved I also found out had an extensive history and relationship with the Department and in this sector of transactions and it appeared to me that his wife at one time also was an employee involved with the City Council. It appeared to me that there may have been a conflict of interest as in doing on line searches I was able to find that his goal was to help (in my opinion) the children that the Child Support Dept was seeking increases for. There is tremendous abuses by the department, as it seems to me that a Business Plan that states their goal is for increases only benefiting their custodial parents child involved that is getting free services from the Child Support Services. They don't care that they are taking money away from other existing children of the non-custodial parents family. They also did not care that the custodial parent would file income and expense information that was missing accurate numbers and age information and assets. All they cared about was getting more money from the non-custodial parent to only benefit the child or teen that they represented for free. They say they are neutral and they have their own in house person that you can complain too. But they are not neutral and their in house assistance is really just a shell. As there is no resolution and they do not make corrections to rogue in house attorneys as the attorneys goal and their goal is to get increases so they can show the numbers to the Dept. of Health and Human Services. The best way to correct any abuses is to personally sue the people and the attorneys directly for their abuses, including the Commissioner, and you can also find out by doing online searches through the local courts weather they have been sued before. You can also go online to the State Bar of Attorneys and see if they are keeping up their dues and file a complaint there, and you can also file a lawsuit against the city and contact the city council and the DA in regards to abuses. The information is all on line if you put in the effort to search. You can also contact the Judges that oversee the Commissioner and file complaints with the over seeing Judge and ask that they place your complaints in the file of the party you are complaining about. But the best way to prevent abuses is by filing a lawsuit against the city and by asking the Auditor Controller of the city to review how the Dept. of Child Support Services is spending their money, our tax dollars. Because most likely you will be able to show that they are applying their significant resources targeting non-custodial parents and increasing their support by removing their existing hardship credits, and also creating arrearages that did not initially exist, another words going back a year making an arrearage, as they did to my husband, and knowingly allowing the custodial parent to file information they new was not accurate which is basically allowing and participating in perjury. They are required to be neutral. They will tell you they are. They are not. Because as you will see upon reviewing their online Business Plan, their goal is only to seek increases for the benefit of the custodial child of the parent that is using their services. They have no concern over any other child that the non-custodial parent may have with others.
March 25th, 2008 at 2:03 am
Glenn,
I think that you should post this story and ask why the man involved got 5 years in prison while one woman got probation and another two years with probation for being involved in the same crime. The intent was the same for all three. http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/24/barbie.bandits/index.html
March 25th, 2008 at 7:50 am
In Summit County Ohio we have a femanazi running child support. She will not collect from females but god help you if you are a male. No reduction in child support for overtime drying up, loss of employment or health related loss of employment issues. Had you been married this agency would not have demanded the same income from your employer why should child support not go down as income changes?
Child support is nothing but back door ex wife support. No accountibility no nothing just pay.
This whole system had to change.
Ohio Dave
March 25th, 2008 at 7:59 am
Poor guys out there....my child's father is a physician....who plans his day around making my life miserable....hasn't contributed to a medical bill in years.....loves to delay court proceedings "because he can"....he will incur any expense to keep from helping me support his daughter. He responds to any request for financial assistance with "I'll sue you for custody and you'll lose your house paying for it". There are true dirt-bags out there guys....and many are driving their Mercedes and wearing $1000 suits. No thanks....I will raise my daughter myself...work two jobs paying for her private special education school...and NOT let the jerk ruin me...oh yeah, and sleep at night! Yes, he visits...but only when he has the appropriate audience...he has wasted her 16 years being selfish....geez, should be blame his parents? Talk to the hand Doc....!
March 25th, 2008 at 8:17 am
Carol, your story sounds like every guy's on this site. Trust me, your case is a minority.
March 25th, 2008 at 8:32 am
I do not understand a child support system that only worries about payments not relationships or proof of paternity. Michigan is the same way. They retro order support based on what the custodial parent says not fact and then go back to the date the custodial parent files all the start up paperwork. This could go back years. You have no rights and they do not care what your financial situtation is. I owed more in arrears that were surcharges than actual support. Who gets this money? Why is there interest on children? They are not a loan nor are they a credit card. They enter judgements that most people could not afford to pay and then put them right in the hole with a retro order so therefore you have no ability to ever get caught up and you will always owe and get surcharges. Never do they ask have you had any contact with the child or do you get a chance to see them. Just pay and stop complaining. They use Federal means to collect the support but they do not follow the law. Both incomes should always be looked at. Nothing should ever be entered based on here say and their should not be high surcharges for failure to pay when they retro the orders back to whatever date they want. The child support system needs a major overhaul. I hope someday it will be corrected and high interest waived and retro orders abolished. I highly doubt this will ever happen. The working poor are the easiest to target because the courts know they have no ability to fight back. This way they get what they want and just keep enforcing bad orders. It is easy to rob from the poor they cant fight back. They take from families and never once realize they are robbing from one to pay another. What a sad state for our child support system.
March 25th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Wonderful, Glenn. I suspect the "number one" problem for non-custodial fathers, the problem that gets them in trouble and that causes so much divisiveness with their own kids, is totally unrealistic child support oblgations established at the outset. They are generally way too high.
I've seen this happen and I throw it out there: Women threaten to expose men's non-reported income as leverage to obtain a greater obligation than he would otherwise voluntarily pay. There are a tremendous number of people in our society working in the "cash" economy, not paying income tax on a big chunk of their income -- we all know that (it's the reason my taxes are too high). Women do it, too, but it comes back to bite men in custody battles since men are just wallets in family law court. These men gladly agree to even unreasonable payment obligations at the outset, without fighting it, to avoid "trouble" from a vindictive wife.
Fathers miss payments they can't afford, interest is tacked on, the wife withholds the kids from him and he doesn't fight it because he owes "her" money, she alienates the kids from him by badmouthing him, eventually she blows the whistle on him, and -- presto -- you've destroyed a father's relationship with his own children and turned him into a criminal. All because of two things: (1) the payment obligation was too high at the outset, and (2) the wife is vindictive.
March 25th, 2008 at 9:34 am
A tremendous amount of effort was expended by a few people to obtain a modification in law that would make it possible to modify "child support" orders. I suspect that average amount reduced, 20k according to the proponants, might represent 1/2 of the accrued interest on the debt. It might represent more or less, I don't know. If anyone wishes to quival over the details, they should put up the numbers, however, the fresh start claim cannot be made based on the numbers produced.
A fresh start should only be considered when the State begins recognizing father's inaliable, fundamental liberty rights to the care and custody of their children. Until that occurs, any meaningful reform that permits the Constitution to be abolished places every parent into a new relationship with government. Parents are, according to this law and it's claims of reform remain guardians of children the State owns. No amount of reform can fix anything if the State does not believe in fundamental liberty rights of parents, particularly fathers.
It is often claimed, that small steps at the legislature are better than no steps at all. This is not always true. If the state no longer prosecutes arson, homeowners fire insurance would disappear and the burning of peoples homes, and ensuing smell of burning wood, shingles and sheetrock in your neighborhood would become as natural for people to accept as the site of a school bus in your neighborhood in the morning. It would be insufficient to seek reform of the fire department if the burning of homes is the unstated, but enforced "public policy".
The jurisdiction of the courts and state statutes concerning parents and children are not powers unlimited. A reform of law of this nature, does not create a fresh start, it does not help children, is foreign to our constitution, and alien to any family law. For the only family law recognized the the police state is THEIR family law. Families who govern themselves, with family law they determine will govern their home and children, is criminalized in the eyes of the State when THEIR INTERESTS are at stake. Their intersests to the care and custody of ALLL children supercedes the interests of ALL parents, whenever they feel like it.
This goes the same for Military personal. It would have been better to have a military person return home to unconsciounable debt, "if it is in the state's best interest". Maybe then the absurdity of law, the over-reach of public authority would get on the front page. Military personal are required to attend "back home" psychological sessions, and part of this obscene process is in part, to help disarmed military personal to resume their indentured servitude status in relationship to the state, particularly if you owe arreas in child support.
Since when is the State's interest in children and collections reserved only for law abiding fathers who married the wrong person whose marriage was dissolved, versus any law-abiding parent who married the wrong person, but whose unloving spouse has not deserted and filed for a dissolution of marriage? Should not the State interest involve parents whose marriage has not been dissolved? (see property tax, Federal/State income tax, or "HOME SCHOOLER"). Are they suspects awaiting "state interest" and new totalitarian laws?
Absolutely.
Should we assist family law reformers by insisting they focus on Constitutional issues, or should we accept the death of the Constitution and the abolition to the rule of law to obtain breadcrumbs, fresh starts, and continue the indoctrination process for boys in school (obey your government masters, your are the reason for all evil in the world), military personal returning home (you cannot shoot tyrants in black robes, you are only authorized to shoot tyrants, criminals and thugs in another nation who didn't attack us). Saddam violated a U.N. sanction, your local magistrate and family court system violates your fundamental liberty rights and our constitution because they can, they will, and if you don't agree with them, they will incarcerate you, alienate you from society (license revocation, job denial, homeless). Your only purpose to the State is to pay, or else. Fathers who don't obey their "orders" will suffer the same fate that Saddam faced. Hiding in a hole in the floor, and the child support swat teams descends on the international law breaker, the evil child support obligor who does not comply with State orders!!!
jw
March 25th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Poor guys out there....my child's father is a physician....who plans his day around making my life miserable....hasn't contributed to a medical bill in years.....loves to delay court proceedings "because he can"....he will incur any expense to keep from helping me support his daughter. He responds to any request for financial assistance with "I'll sue you for custody and you'll lose your house paying for it". There are true dirt-bags out there guys....and many are driving their Mercedes and wearing $1000 suits. No thanks....I will raise my daughter myself...work two jobs paying for her private special education school...and NOT let the jerk ruin me...oh yeah, and sleep at night! Yes, he visits...but only when he has the appropriate audience...he has wasted her 16 years being selfish....geez, should be blame his parents? Talk to the hand Doc....!
And worse about it is that your story isn't the image that they like to paint as a deadbeat dad. The system does not go after the actual people that refuse to pay support they go after the ones that can barely (and in many cases flat out can't) afford it. And do you know why? Because unlike the typical deadbead parent your child's father can actually afford to defend himself if you or the system tried to take action against him. Basically I'm saying that he is not an easy mark therefore not worth the effort of going after him.
March 25th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Carol:
Sorry to hear about your story, but your case is just not the majority. I know far, far more men than women living close to poverty (and working their fingers to the bone) in order to make child support payments.
What I DO hear a lot more of is divorced mothers violating visitation rights with no legal consequences, illegaly moving children out of state, filing false DV and molestation charges, demanding alimony even after they get remarried, etc. The list goes on and on.
I've NEVER heard a story like my cousin's come from the mouth of a woman. His wife stabbed him in the shoulder with a fork, and he pushed her away in self defense. The police came to his house, arrested him, and threw him in Riker's Island (not your average small town jail) for four days with no medical treatment. Even though she tried to drop the charges (insane woman that she is), the police are still pressing criminal charges, because of no-drop policies. The last time I heard of a woman being treated this way was . . . well, never.
I know we're not talking about DV here, but the fact remains. If a woman sustains a thumb-print sized bruise on her arm from where I held her off to keep her from smashing me in the head with a hammer, it's ME who will go to jail, not her - even with witnesses testifying on my behalf. That's the world men live in.
The fact also remains that in more than 85% of cases, women get custody of chidren in a divorce. Why is that the case, when there is NO empircal evidence proving that children are better off with their mothers? Why does society automatically assume that women are better parents than men, especially when there IS evidence that the majority of people with criminal backgrounds come from single mother households? That sounds pretty sexist to me. Of course, women don't seem to mind a sexism that works in their favor.
I'll give women the benefit of the doubt here, though. It's probably not single motherhood that leads to criminal behavior. It's more likely single PARENTHOOD. We have no evidence that single fatherhood would lead to a better result, because there has never been a widespread phenomenon of single fatherhood. Maybe someday fathers will get their chance. I'm not holding my breath, though.
The next ten to fifteen years will be really interesting. Now that women are earning more than their male counterparts in major American cities (I'll fax you the articles if you don't believe me), there's a chance that more and more men will become primary care givers. In the case of divorce, I wonder if judges will start awarding child custody to men more often. If they don't, we'll know just how sexist our society really is. I wait eagerly for the results.
Another thing: I find it funny that although so many women complain and complain about the hardships of single motherhood, nearly every shared parenting bill is shot down. The only thing I can conclude, being a male and more prone to logic and reason, is that society DOESN'T want divorced men involved in their children's lives. If single motherhood is so hard, why aren't single mothers pushing to pass shared parenting laws? Women like to complain, but I don't see them doing anything to change the situation.
It's nice that your ex is a doctor. Unfortunately, most of the divorced fathers I know are economically middle class. Do you think they're having a great time driving around in their BMW's and Zegna suits? No m'am. They're constantly treading the poverty line, paying for a house that they don't live in, shelling out alimony for adult children, and supporting children they hardly see. None of these guys have it easy. I always wanted to have kids, but I thank my God that I didn't have any with my ex-wife. My life would have been over.
One woman's hardship story is not going to change our course. If anything, a lot of the men here completely identify with what you're saying. What you WILL get are nods of recognition - 'Yeah, been there, done that.' I think that you're pulling the usual tactic whereby a woman comes here, tells her hardship story, and tries to shame men into keeping their mouths shut. Granted, I don't think you're doing it on purpose. I just think it's a societal instinct. In fact, most of us here have experienced a lot worse. But there it is. I've seen it again and again.
We also come to the idea that society tells men we should talk about how we feel. Then, when we DO talk about how we feel, society tells us to shut up. Interesting how we run into that all the time here. There are a few women who come here in a supportive manner, but the numbers are scant. I often feel lucky for the two or three that ARE on our side.
March 25th, 2008 at 10:37 am
metalman, single motherhood leads to more screwed up kids than single father households. Women have a bigger problem with discipline than men. They're the first ones to exclaim "Oh I would never spank my child." I'm afraid men beat women in that department just like they beat women in keeping families together. As I said before, you couldn't have paid men to trash their women and abandon their kids the way so many women so easily do.
March 25th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Since 2002, my county and state Child Support Report has not been accurate.
Most of accounting errors are/were (1) missing payments on Report; (2) miscalculated amount owed (for example, $2,000 monthly times 14 months from date support order), and (3) amount owed (debit side) was kept current (today’s date as a computer generated), however, the amount owed (credit side) is not current (Clerks entered payments manually, so are usually a month behind), among other poor accounting practices.
Additional concerns struck me the hardest on the both reports, the county's and states, (1) because the government reports do not use check or payment document numbers (check or pay stub number) on reports, it is impossible to reconciliation your payments with report; (2) the state and county reports did not match each other - one said one amount paid and the other report a different amount paid; and lastly (3) when an Audit of the Support Report is requested, the same government employees audits their own report. It's like asking Enron to certify there own work on accounting reports.
I do not say this with any pride in my spirit, that I have an MBA, and balancing one account is not difficult. For example, my credit card company keeps highly accurate account of what people owe and pay, so the government ought to do the same.
There ought to be a campaign for accurate support reports.
March 25th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Right now my wife refuses my requests to see my son for Spring break as stated in a court order. But when will the government launch a Visitation Vixen campaign so fathers can see their children?
March 25th, 2008 at 10:49 am
The child support is all they want, even when they have no idea where the mother and child are at, as in my case.
I've been in a nightmare with the anti-father TX Family courts for 5 years, fighting for orders to be enforced so I can see my child. A final divorce/custody decree has been pending during this time, but my ex has constantly moved from place to place and refused to allow me any contact with my child, even when court ordered. I've made trips to other states in order to have visitation only to be denied by her or learn she's recently disappeared yet again. All the police ever say when I show them court orders is "Take it to court". Which I've done several times.
Of course there's never any consequences to her, but I've gone broke having to constantly search for my child and bring motions into court to try to get my parental rights and previous court orders enforced. I don't have everything paid for me like she does.
Last year she was arrested and jailed on drug charges, including delivery and conspiracy. (The reason I filed for divorce was mainly due to her refusal to get help to quit using meth she had started. She had become very aggressive and violent and slept with other men in exchange for drugs or money for drugs, as well as spent all of our money she could get on drugs. She refused to get help and I wanted to protect the children, but of course that was very naive thinking on my part).
I've again been unable to find my child since last December, and nobody seems to know where he's at or who he's with. HER own (pro bono) attorney hasn't had contact with her for several months.
I've been denied information from the police, CPS and the school as to where my child was, and was treated like I have no right to know because I'm the non-custodial parent. She's showed very clearly that she's unable to care for our child and has endangered him, yet I get no help in even finding them when they disappear, because I'm not the custodial parent.
My attorney again filed a motion to grant a temporary order making me custodial parent in order to get police and other organizations to cooperate in helping find my child.
What happened next I'm told is totally illegal but happened just the same. BY law a motion must be filed at least 3 days before the date of a hearing, BUT ten minutes before the hearing (for MY motion for temporary custody) HER attorney filed a motion to immediately finalize the divorce decree. Instead of addressing MY (legally filed) motion to get help in finding my child, the judge signed the final decree they wanted, so I'm still denied help in finding where my child is at.
The judge signed the decree knowing that the address for her was not her present address, knowing that my child has been missing for months and HER own (pro bono) attorney has no idea where she's at. She wasn't at the hearing of course, but everything she had wanted was granted by the judge. My attorney refused to sign the decree, so the judge and HER attorney are the only signatures. Her attorney couldn't run fast enough to file the decree with the state child support division, knowing it would immediately hinder me from taking any further action.
It put me a year in arrears of child support and I'm instantly a criminal.
This is crazy! Nobody even knows where my child's at. They have no current address for my ex to even give her the support. I'm again denied rights to know where my child is at and who he's with. I'm nearly broke due to having to search the country for my child, and I've lost my job due to having to spend so much time searching on my own.
It's not the money, even though I'm certainly suffering financially right now. There's nothing I wouldn't give and do for my child- if I were allowed to. It's the fact that my child's welfare and my parental rights are never considered. I'll probably be jailed, lose my driver's license and everything else soon. It'll be impossible to even keep searching for my child then as I've become an instant criminal, and God knows where my child will end up.
It'll be nearly impossible to bring myself to send that money to child support, knowing that I'll never see again, or know at all the child they claim it's for. My child will never see a penny because they have no address, no idea where he's at, and there's not a thing I can do about it.
March 25th, 2008 at 11:04 am
My child support order has been nothing but a nightmare. I got behind once and they started tacking on this insane interest and nearly threw me in jail because of it. My daughter stays with me a lot anyway and I can't see how her mom spends 1/2 of what I pay in child support on her. I also think it's unfair that I have to pay all of the court costs every time her mom decides to drag me into court. When I got a new job that pays more, she took me to court and I had to pay $500.00 in court fees and she didn't have to pay anything. I also can't believe my eyes when I see the other court cases when I'm there. People already in jail are constantly sentenced to more jail time because they can't pay (because they are in jail.) Wasn't that the logic behind banning debtors prison?
From my perspective, the laws are purely emotional and driven by hate.
March 25th, 2008 at 11:14 am
First, to Carol. I'm sorry you're suffering the way you are. You sound like a dedicated mom and someone who deserves much better from the "system." But, as I've always said -- since being thrown in to the process myself, only two types of people win in family court: liars and people with high disposable incomes. When these are one-in-the-same, the "system" really sticks it to you. In my case, my ex- lied, lied, lied -- because she knew she could and knew she would never be held accountable. Her lies got her custody and twice the level of child support my income could support, but it also destroyed what was left of our relationship ... to the detriment of our son. (I don't think she cares.) Because of the way the system operates, women who lack character don't need money to triumph. But the system will work for the guy who has many times more money than the woman and is willing to lie and manipulate the situation as well. In my opinion, the "system" needs to be taken apart and rebuilt from the ground up. And lawyers, who practice family law need to be regulated by more than their peers and "what a laugh" judges. We need the equivalent of a "public service commission" in each county to keep these degenerates in line.
Regarding the Orange County dead-beat dad "top-10 most wanted" charade: It's simply bread and circuses. Instead of doing their job and prosecuting real wrong doers, this duo -- and "Golightly" should do just that, by the way -- is wasting taxpayer money and destroying the good name and reputation of people who -- more likely than not -- cannot pay the trumped up amounts requested. I can't believe no one is raising the issue of why they aren't spending their time, money and energy going after pederasts, con-men, murderers, identity stealers, check kiters, the list goes on and on. This campaign is all the proof I would need, if I lived in orange county, that these two goldbrickers need to go.
March 25th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Dear Glenn: Where is the phone number of these deadbeat politicians and probably, greedy lawyers with no shame or morals, Cooley and Golighly? so that people like myself can call them up about who is really destroying children's future in this country? certainly, not unemployed fathers without a lot of education but disgusting persecutorial nazis who deprive children of fathers and defame humble man for political motives and pure greed. Where is their phone number? In your stories you give the e-mails and phone numbers away usually, and I, who am higjly educated and highly informed about these corrupt child-haters lawyers, always enjoy talking with them and see which excuses do they come up with. Also, as an Hispanic highly educated male, I always enjoying pointing out to them that the greates victims of this witch hunt for greed and political motives are many times poor Hispanics, so human rights criminals like Cooley and Golighly are destroying both Hispanic children and Hispanic fathers for greed and desire of power, not much different from KKK and Nazis. They are the ones in the same league as Osama Bin Laden, not a poor father.
March 25th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
and please let's not forget the imputation of salary. after twenty two years of marriage, my "judge" decided to ignore reality and base his decision on a figure that was more money than i ever made. in fact he set a support figure that was greater than my net pay. in twenty two years i never had a lapse or lower variation in pay and had perfect credit. abuse, corruption and impunity, what a cocktail. no wonder these "judges" are drunk with power. you have to ask yourself what motivates this. but then again all america really knows, don't we?
March 25th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
My wonderful, loving wife would probably be hurt to know this (and I would be somewhat ashamed to admit it to her), but I feel a sense of relief now that my kids are all over 18. I don't even like to think about what it would have been like to have been kicked out of their lives -- it really is too painful to imagine. The stories related here are nightmares.
I know that "but for the grace of God, there go I." I promote equal gender rights and responsibilities (and therefore oppose feminism) because I believe I owe it to my kids, and to their kids -- if any.
March 25th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Jay R says "I feel a sense of relief now that my kids are all over 18."
I recall a U.K. father describe the court's "standard visitation schedule" between him and his children as "living bereavement."
March 25th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
It's time for us all to wake up to the truth. Child Support Agency's and the Court Systems that support them are in need of a complete overhaul. We all see the rising murder rate of Fathers killing pregnant Mothers, and we all know that as bad as it is the reasons are preventable. If there was truely a justice to this system the problem would not be there. I lived through the Civil Rights movement, and the Equal rights Movement. It's time to put the Equal in Equal Rights. If women deserve Equal rights in the workplace than Men deserve just as Equal rights in the Homeplace.
( Don't get me wrong I am not trying to make this a Men Verses Woman Issue, rather than a Right Verses Wrong Issue)
I myself would put my record against any Person. I have changed just as many Diapers, prepared just as many meals, washed just as many clothes, attended just as many P.T.A. Meetings, Cleaned just as many skinned knees, Spent just as many sleepless nights, and Yes I have received Just as many Happy Mothers Day Cards and Phone calls ( Going on 24 Years Now) and the list goes on and on.
Twenty Three Years ago I was granted custody of my 2 Daughters and Their mother was Labeled as an unfit Parent. If it's true that life is Difficult for a single Mom, It's Twice as hard on a Single Dad. 10 Years later I met someone else, we got engaged, then she broke off the engagement telling me that she was pregnant with someone elses child. Years later she came back and admited that there never was anyone else and that she LIED about the other man. I asked her why she was telling me about it now and she said BECAUSE I WANT MONEY. Thats exactly what she got from the same court that had given me custody 10 years earlier. There are no consequences for wrong actions only rewards. Thats what is wrong with the system. Unfortunately the bad Mom's out there that take advantage of the system and how it is set up are making the good Moms look bad.
Do you think that the court considered the 2 children they had given me custody of ? NO. They forgot completely about them. did not collect their support order and forgot them. We struggled as long as we could the oldest became Emancipated before we heard anything about collection of their order by then it was too late to do any good.
Now I have a new family, and a Three Year old Special Needs Son. I went into court last week a magestrate told me I could no longer be a Daytime stay at home dad. ( I work nights) He wants more money for my support order, ( He is already Imputing me at 8 to 9 Thousand Dollars more than what I actually make) He wants to raise my support by more because as he said "HE THINKS I SHOULD MAKE MORE MONEY". I testified to him that I was a Stay at home Dad when my ex met me. That was my lifestyle for the last 23 years. He said I could no longer be a Stay at home dad because I was a man. Men are not allowed to do be stay at home dads. My attorney reminded him that he had another case before him exactly like mine however the sexes were reversed and that he had ruled diffrently. The magestrate said It was because the other case the non custodial parent was a Mom. Moms are allowed to stay at home Dads are not.
Next we will be told we can't sit on a bus seat or drink from a water fountain because of the color of our skin, or we can't make the same wage as another person doing the same job because of our sex.
It doesn't get more plain than that folks. We are dealing with the same prejudice and descrimination that our forefathers were dealing with throughout history. It's time to stop complaining, Stop Blogging and Start Changing. Change can only happen one way. Regester to vote, Join a Parents Rights Group, And start lobbying your State and Federal Representatives to make the changes.
Unfortunatelly we all have simular stories, The point for us is to do something before our children end up telling the same stories about their lives.
March 25th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Glenn,
This is a result of men letting these things happen by electing public officials who pass biased legislation and pursue mostly men who have hardship paying child support. It's time for men to hold these officials accountable or expose them for their unjust behavior. Most female deadbeats are really confronted by law enforcement. There's a pattern here. First, female sex offenders and domestic violent criminals (who abuse children, husbands, boy friends and girl friends) statistically get lesser sentences compared to men (similar crimes in the same region).
Examples of domestic abuse:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/24/barbie.bandits/index.html, http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/andrea_yates/index.html, http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/mary_winkler/
Examples of sex offenders:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/female_offenders/6.html
Second, political correctness (http://www.jayspang.com/?p=7) and men’s refusal to openly talk about these injustices have led the law enforcement officials to ignore what one or two men would write in the media. It has to be a national effort. We must start writing to our State Representatives, Congressmen/women, Governors, and Senators and push them to address these issues.
Third, talking is cheap without action. As fathers, we must start educating our daughters on the problems men face instead of cuddling them and making them act like an entitled princess. I believe many women fight along men in helping them gain their rights. I blame men who don't have the testicular fortitude to fight against this nonsense. They wait till it happens to them to toot the horn. Most guys don’t mind being the Macho man criticizing other guys until the law comes after them.
Finally, I think its past time to be nice to elected officials if they refuse to hear your issues (http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/06/16/duke.lacrosse/index.html). We have the power to prosecute and vote them out of public office and should act on it.
Regards,
Rick
March 25th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
I previously worked for the Commonweatlth of Massachusetts, perfoming some tasks that put me in contact with accurate data about child support payments and orders. It was widely accepted and known that some percentage of the individuals identified as owing large sums of money, say $20G's or more, later were established to owe much less. This inflated mumber was generally accepted by state employees as a PR ploy by the Child Support Administrators to pump up or "make sexy" their claims. The whole idea of MA State Troopers having to go and arrest the individuals has been nothing more than an exercise in political muscle, that is the CSU has the muscle and they want to show it off. And I like that metaphor because like all bullies, and that is what the administrators are, they are not looking for confrontation except in lab type settings that they control.One of those controlled areas is the Massachusetts court rooms where CSU likes to remind the judges that the "child support guidelines" virtually eliminate any judicial deiscretion. Making the judges more or less rubber stamps to their, CSU, decisions.
I recently returned to court to lower my child support and was greeted by people in the hallway who inferred that I would be held to the child support guidelines. When the judge listened to the facts he lowered my payments, because he had discretion, as the sole dependent is 20 and out of HS. The Judge didn't gloat, he merely reminded the individuals that were crying for an increase that he was not bound by the CSU "guidelines". End of message.
March 25th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Sorry for the cross post, but I think it's relevant....
http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=1953#comment-188443
March 26th, 2008 at 12:40 am
Subject: Deadbeat Dads' Campaign vs.DEADBEAT MOM SEES LOOPHOLE - TRY TO CHANGE JURISDICTION!
How about deadbeat MOMs? IMAGINE A NON-CUSTODIAL MOM SEEING LOOPHOLE IN LAW AND ACTUALLY CHANGES JURISDICTION TO THE TOWN SHE CURRENT MOVED AND CLAIMS IT IS BECAUSE OF HER HEART CONDITION... HOWEVER, AFTER PURJURING IN COURT TO THE LOCAL AREA, SHE STOPPED COMING BECAUSE OF HER OTHER SONS' MENTAL ILLNESS AND HER CURRENT HUSBAND, WAS NOT HER NEW BOYFRIEND BUT THE HOUSESITTER. SHE TESTIFY UNDER PURJERY... THE HOUSESITTER WAS IN THE PARKING LOT, IN HER WON PT-LOSER --NOT 330 MILES AWAY SITTING HER HOUSE LIKE SHE CLAIMED.
When my husband and his ex-wife got divorced, she had left him bankrupted. He owed about $75,000 in credit she had created by using his driver's license number, social security and name. She had managed to declare their child autistic w/o his knowledge. All this was done while she was a stay at home mom with a nanny and he was out working.
With the issues with her being disabled, she was discharged from the Navy for mental illness but claims she receives full retirement from Navy BECAUSE OF MITROVALVE PROLAPSE. We believe she made close to $120,000 a year in 2006 . When they divorced, she was supposed to pay him palimony and possibly child support but he refused. After years of the child being moved around and her many marriages (6), AND ABOUT $50,000 IN ATTORNEY'S FEES, MY HUSBAND A PUBLIC SERVANT, was able to gain custody of the boy. In the last year, she thought I was A DOCTOR AND THEREFORE rich and had her attorney seek child support. She got it but through her lies in court, she was given extension of keeping custody and eventually the judge saw the light and every thing was reversed. She recently is attempting to reduce her child support by opening a case against her in Stanislaus County. There is a loophole in the law and my husband is due to court in Stanislaus County, Modesto this monday... How come LA County which is our jurisdiction is not going after her and HAS allowed this to happen?
I'VE LEARNED THAT DAD'S SOMETIMES ARE THE BEST OF THE TWO PARENTS. BEING A FEMALE DOES NOT MAKE ONE A GOOD PARENT.
March 26th, 2008 at 3:10 am
I was a stay at home Dad but I may soon be a stay at jail dad. This Family law racketeering has to stop. We need thousands of Dead beat dads in the streets. The government is taking our children away for profit. They have to be stopped like the KKK or the Nazis were stopped. We must INVADE and take no prisoners. The children will have to speak to the masses about their Dads. The money trail must be publicized and the State govoners held accoutable for war crimes against the American family. Joe Biden must be tarred and feathered for VAWA on national TV and NOW must be outlawed as a sexist and evil unAmerican organization which kills children. We must resurect the US Constitution out of the shreader and end this Police State. We need a rock band called the Deadbeats to put it to music and a Major Motion Picture called Non-Custodial to win the Oscar. We need handguns and horses and the element of suprise. We need to open the windows and scream out "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" and when the cops show up defy them in numbers. We need change. Watch out for that fault in California. It's time for a change.
March 26th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
It appears to me that the ACLU should take up this case if the dept. mission statement is to create arrearages for non-coustodials....where are you ACLU ???
March 26th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Thomas Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 2:03 am
Glenn,
I think that you should post this story and ask why the man involved got 5 years in prison while one woman got probation and another two years with probation for being involved in the same crime. The intent was the same for all three. http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/24/barbie.bandits/index.html
= = =
I sent that to him earlier he did not bite, furthermore the blond received no time and the brunette received 2 years. . .
b
March 27th, 2008 at 3:32 am
Child support is money I give my wife so she can afford to keep my son from me.
Child support is incentive for my wife to keep my son from me. If we split time equally she would lose the money.
Child support is the money my wife uses for paying her attorney to assure that the support level remains high.
If we both had equal time with our child, we would each provide for him as we see fit. Why should this be any different for divorced people than married people?
Our government spends more money as a consequence of the existence of child support, than the total of the child support billed. Child support should be called “Government support”. It is paid by tax payers not just non-custodial dads. It is an issue that everyone should be concerned about.
Child support is named like the Patriot Act, who would say they weren't a patriot? Who would come out against supporting children? But like the patriot act, it is not what it says it is. There is no accounting for what the money is spent on. Some mothers even use it to buy their recreational drugs. And since when does money by love?
If child support is for supporting children, why is the amount paid tied to how much dad makes rather than how much it costs to raise the child? Really, does it cost twice as much to raise a child when dad makes 150k rather than 75k when the child lives with mom?
Would alimony smell more sweet if it were called child support?
The reason they changed the name from alimony to child support was to avoid the debate of why men are giving money to women who make more than them.
Few people know the origin of the word “dad”. Dad is an old Indian word that means, “paying visitor loser who has no house.”
Dad – this cool guy I visit once in a while.
Child support, ransom paid to keep dad out of jail.
Child support, another name for a Dad tax.
Presumed guilty: requirement to register with the state as a child support payer.
Registering with the state didn't work out too well for the Armenians or the Jews. Is this really something we should be doing?
March 27th, 2008 at 3:41 am
Census Bureau info
Yep lets go after those deadbeat dads
b
In 2006, 5 of every 6 custodial parents were mothers (83.8 percent) and 1 in 6 were fathers (16.2 percent)
While the majority of custodial parents had one child (57.3 percent), custodial mothers were more likely than custodial fathers to have two or more children living with them in 2006 (44.2 percent and 35.0 percent, respectively).
Custodial mothers were less likely than custodial fathers to be employed, with one-half (50.1 percent) having full-time, year-round employment and more than onequarter (28.5) having part-time or part-year employment in 2005.
Among custodial fathers, 73.7 percent worked full-time, year-round, and 18.4 percent were employed part-time or part-year.
The percentage of custodial mothers who had child support agreements or awards in 2006 (61.4 percent), after rising to a high of 64.2 percent in 2004. The proportion of custodial fathers with child support agreements or awards has historically been lower than the proportion of custodial mothers and continued to be lower in 2006 (36.4 percent).
The proportion of custodial mothers (47.3 percent) who received full payments in 2005. The proportion of custodial fathers receiving full payments (43.1 percent).
March 27th, 2008 at 3:54 am
The child support system is eating US citizens alive and destroying children for the sake of supporting courts and lawyers whom make way too much for the seeds of destruction they are spreading. These blood suckers deserve a good old fashioned tar and feathering.
Marcy Ganz
San Diego, CA
http://crispe.org/blog
March 27th, 2008 at 11:27 am
IT IS PARTIALLY OUR FAULT, I see a lot of you complaining with very good motives, but as someone raised in Southern Europe who is used to protest and voice my anger at injustice because there there is a tradition of actually fighting for your rights, not just stay at home and complain in blogs, can I ask why the men of LA county for example don't march up on the streets and expose these lawyers and judges for what they are? why do you take all that is given to you without protesting loudly (within the boundaries of law of course). Why don't you expose this greedy criminals, sadistic torturers who "in the name of the best interest of children" will do every possible harm against children, fathers, the most basic US laws and constitution, human rights, etc. If we don't actually go to the streets or tv stations in large numbers or at least do at Kim says in the beginning of the blog. So far, I have exposed the lies of the sub-human monkey lawyers worse than child-molesteres trying to destroy my daughter future, I have filled official complainst of sexism, racism, and national-origin discrimination against them, threatned them with criminal prosecution in crimimal courts for malicious persecution, and because of that and only because of that I can visit my daughter and "child support" (of which very little goes to my daughter, most goes to a golddigger who rarely works and keeps her full time on day-care) is kept down. In summary, I think while no doubt that these lawyers, DA, child agencies, are a grotesque assemly of no gooders who hate children and fathers and will do everything for money and to look good on tv ("Oh we are helping single moms struggle against horrific horrific fathers who don't care abou their children" is how they get promoted in their careeers) .... most of the blame for what is happening is also on us because we don't protest enought, we know the drill, but most people, including men not divorced yet, have no idea of what these lawyers are doing.... so until American divorced dads are more vocal nothing is going to change, things are only to get worse, first was 20% of the salary now in idiotic states like MA where they treat men like women are treated in saudi arabia is up to 50% of income for 23 years now for one child that your not even allowed ever to see!!! This while you and your other children and new spouse are starving!!! talk about pursuit of happyness
March 27th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
I've also filed complaints against corrupt court officials that never go anywhere. I've contacted the ACLU and was told they only get involved with large groups of victims of civil rights violations. I don't think any of these places have any idea of the vast number of fathers whose rights are trampled into the dirt along with their children.
I'm all for taking it to the streets at this point or whatever it may take to be heard. My frustration level is so high I'm afraid of what I may be capable of these days.
I was in court again today on another motion of contempt of visitation orders against my ex. I've been refused contact with my child for nearly 2 years, and have been in court 3 times during that time, trying to get the judge to force my ex to comply with court orders.
As always there was nothing done to uphold my parental rights. Yet, if I stop paying child support I'll be jailed.
I have shown proof that my ex was arrested just two weeks after she was given custody, for drug possion, intent to deliver and conspiracy. She plead down and got a month in jail.
The judge said he would not consider this as perjury to her testimony two weeks prior that she has nothing to do with drugs, because it was two weeks after the hearing. Judge says her crime didn't actually prove she uses drugs, only that she had them on her. So it's fine and dandy if she keeps custody. The double standard is amazing.
Not a thing is ever done about her contempt of court orders for contact with my child. I wasn't even notified when she went to jail, so I could take care of my child during that time. I found the arrest records while conducting yet another search for her adddress since she disappeared again as soon as she was paroled. I'm left with the horrible feeling that I have no choice but to give up on ever seeing my child again.
March 28th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Hi HA - please don't destroy your life (even further than they have done it to you) by doing some foolish (since you are afraid of what you may capable of) ... from a guy raised in Europe's perspective I think that is the problem with American divorced dads and why you (and me because I had a kid in the states so I suffer as much as you all do) and your children are so abused and treated as subhumans with no human or constitutional rights.
The problem is that you American divorced dads either don't do nothing (other than burning inside, see therapists who are glad that they too can also make money from the way the courts treat fathers, waste money on "family" lawyers - who although they promise so much never seem to win any custody or visitation battle for parents of the male gender because that state of affairs serves their interests and greed - obcess about it, complain to your new wifes, to your moms, in blogs that only we the victims ourselves read, etc) or you blow up and doo too much (we all seen that in tv)...
If I was in Europe my suggestion would be indeed for us to go to the streets, to the state governor's house, to the tv and protest peacefully, legally but vehemently... but in the US there is no such tradition and men are, it is true, too afraid to do it, they may take all your salary, they may take your children, they may take your dignity, they may take your human and constitutional rights but you just swallow everything.... and other than brave folks like Glenn ... there is not even a wisper telling overall society what is going on against children due to the greed of these lawyers and "family" system... nobody outside of the hell we face after divorce knows about it!
So if here if there is a street protest in the US, only 2 or 3 dads show up, and, frankly, it looks ridiculous and most non divorced men, grandparents, even well-intentioned politicians think oh well it must not be that bad if only 2 or 3 show up....
I think something more feasible and appropriate to US culture is if we post posters of deadbeat mothers (who hate their children so much to deprive them of fathers by all means necessary) or deadbeat family judges (who are so preverse and self-interest - that, in order to maintain their jobs and be on the good graces of femenist groups - who kudos to them are very well organized and are powerfull- always give the child to the mother even if the mother is obvious a danger to her own child and is on drugs) ...
Call these corrupt child aghencies, judges from all over the state also would help like we did help in the case of the Cuban father (elian Gonzales II) who had 18 lawyers against him getting custody of his daughter...
March 28th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Organizing is the key to victory, The game they play is divide and conquer. Lets face reality politicians only reconize people who are registered voters. There are too many splintered groups. There has to be a coming together of these fathers rights groups as one strong voice. 20 to 30 per county in a state is easy for them to defeat, however 30 county's of 30 plus is 900 times 50 plus states is 45,000 plus, and the numbers could be much higher. Now thats starting to become a number they can't ignore. As long as we stay apart and vent by blogging nothing will change. Register to vote. Join a Fathers Rights Group in your area, Push to join other groups with yours to become one voice for change. Then start voting for people who believe in our cause. These crimes against Fathers just started in the 70's. Those who have lived through and now have Emancipated children owe it to them to change the future, so don't walk away just because you are no longer affected. Stay in the fight. Mothers with son's need to join the fight also,or one day they will be watching their son's go through the same Hell.
March 31st, 2008 at 6:34 pm
I'm with Pedro Caetano it is time for street marches. The march will be on June 17th. If you want to sign up send me mail at dimitrisdad@gmail.com. I will keep a list. In every local we get a quorum we will march, and the do so in a way that gets attention. Others should plan to travel to a city with a march. If we have to, we can do it in one central city. I will keep you all informed based on the demographics. We want people from all across the country/world to participate. I also want to hear from you if you have a special skill set. If you can help with funding, banners, organization, advertisement, reporting – please let me know. Everyone GET THE WORD OUT
(I'm not from Southern Europe, but I have been saying this for a long time. What I have noticed is that there are established "dissidents", typically folks with websites and a stated desire to be a men's rights activist, who always come and demolish attempts to organize demonstrations. These folks seem to have well rehearsed sound bites and particularly effective methods for discrediting such proposals and the speakers. Often these center around branding people as fanatics, or implying they are part of something unsavory. I say don't listen to them this time, lets march!)