Augusta Chronicle Editorial Asserts Female Sentencing Discount in 'Barbie Bandits' Case
April 16th, 2008 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & Families
"Women just seem to get off easier than men in the criminal justice system...A five-year study by a Kansas State University professor, cited by men's and fathers' advocate Glenn Sacks in American Chronicle , revealed that male teachers receive 15 to 20 years in prison for improper relations with students, whereas female teachers receive, at the most, one to three years, and often get probation.
"A number of high-profile cases in recent years bear that out, including that of Debra Lafave, the former Florida teacher who faced a possible 30-year prison term for relations with a 14-year-old student but got three years of 'house arrest' instead...
"In another, much less publicized case, a 24-year-old woman in Pennsylvania received probation last year after having a child with a 14-year-old boy. What makes that case all the more telling is that the victim's older brother was serving prison time for having had sex with a 14-year-old girl."
The full Augusta Chronicle editorial is Not a black-and-white issue (4/14/08). It discusses the NAACP's assertion that the so-called "Barbie Bandits" (pictured) got off more lightly than their black accomplices because they're white. I believe in general that blacks are treated more harshly by the judicial system than whites, but that the disparity between the way males and females are treated is far, far wider.
The outrageous case involving the 24-year-old Pennsylvania woman is covered in my blog post Extreme Gender Bias: Woman Who Statutorily Raped Boy Avoids Jail, While Boy's Older Brother Goes to Prison for Same Crime.
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April 16th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Glenn's assertion is correct regarding gross gender bias. The NAACP is correct as well in this case.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Gee... ya think?
Us guy types, we started noticing this HOW LONG AGO???
G_R
April 16th, 2008 at 10:33 am
From the Augusta Chornicle article:
The last line says,"But it likely has nothing to do with race."
I'm sorry but I can't fully agree with that. I would say it was a combination of both race and gender. Black man + women woman + crime = The big black man was at fault. I just can't help but think that if Bennie and Michael were Michelle and Bonnie (but still black) they still would have been treated more harshly. Not as harshly I agree but to claim that race had no role in it is too big of a stretch.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:33 am
I came across this link off reddit today: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1121051bobo1.html
Excerpt: The 37-year-old Arkansas woman is the 3,496th teacher to be arrested this year on charges that she had sex with an underage student (in this case, a 14-year-old boy).
I assume that 3496 figure is for the country and not for the state of Arkansas alone. I knew the figure had to be high, but had no idea it was that high. That averages out to more than one teacher charged per week in every single state for the entire year. I wonder how many of those teachers were women, and how their sentences compared to their male counterparts...
April 16th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Ben:
That averages out to more than one teacher charged per week in every single state for the entire year.
And the scary part is that we're barely 1/3 of the way through the year.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Deja Vu!
We just had a similar race versus gender discussion regarding the false allegation of rape made by a white anti-illegal immigration activist against boys who harassed her.
Statements such as "I believe..." are loaded with prejudice, bias and doubt and Glenn, to his credit, at least hedges his claim by indicating these shortcomings with this language (rather than simply declaring it as a fact.)
There is one thing we can be certain of: If Glenn was falsely accused of a crime or suffered disproportional sentencing, the so-called civil rights group NAACP wouldn't notice.
If we wanted to ascertain racial bias in such cases, we should examine cases where black female teachers have sex with underage students...
April 16th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Danny,
Actually, that was on Nov. 21st of 2005, so the figure probably wasn't much more than 3500-3700 (one would hope)....
April 16th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Looks
I also wonder if this has something to do with looks. If a woman (or even man) defendant in such cases is VERY attractive, are people inclined to believe the crime is less serious? And are they partially right?
Students who clearly want to have sex with VERY attractive teachers probably don't view themselves as victims. This goes for both genders. Both pictures above indicate teachers, and their legal counsel, who probably see this as an effective defense.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:46 am
I have a suggestion: until women start receiving the same sentences as men for committing the same crimes as men, wage discrimination against women should be legal.
How does that soUND?
April 16th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Tricia Walsh Smith
Wife divorces husband on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx_WKxqQF2o
April 16th, 2008 at 11:01 am
PolishKnight Says: I also wonder if this has something to do with looks. If a woman (or even man) defendant in such cases is VERY attractive, are people inclined to believe the crime is less serious? And are they partially right?
All the risks of sex are present with attractive people, just as they are with the average and the homely. More so with anyone who seduces a teen or tween, as they're demonstrating (at the very least) poor judgement. Pregnancy (with custody going to the rapist, no less), AIDS, Herpes, genital warts - those are the things that the underage males aren't capable of consenting to.
April 16th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Incarceration is not an equal opportunity punishment
"On December 31, 2005, there were 2,193,798 people in U.S. prisons and jails. The United States incarcerates a greater share of its population, 737 per 100,000 residents, than any other country on the planet."
"U.S. incarceration rates by race, June 30, 2006:
Whites: 409 per 100,000
Latinos: 1,038 per 100,000
Blacks: 2,468 per 100,000
Gender is an important "filter" on the who goes to prison or jail, June 30, 2006:
Females: 134 per 100,000
Males: 1,384 per 100,000"
http://www.prisonsucks.com
April 16th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Un-Casual Sex
Chris_C says: "All the risks of sex are present with attractive people, just as they are with the average and the homely. More so with anyone who seduces a teen or tween, as they're demonstrating (at the very least) poor judgement. Pregnancy (with custody going to the rapist, no less), AIDS, Herpes, genital warts - those are the things that the underage males aren't capable of consenting to."
PK responds: One could argue the same for adult men too, yes? Do adults consent to getting a disease or someone using bastard children against them? Indeed, in the recent discussion about reproductive choice, it all comes down to might=right and many women saying: "Well, if the woman has the ability to gestate and the law is in favor of her doing whatever she likes with HER BODY, that's HIS problem!!!"
This is the morality of a sociopath: That if you have the ability to get away with doing something horrid (exploiting children and ruining other people's lives) and not get caught then it's ok. I think a lot of this attitude is due to a subconscious resentment such women have towards men for casual sex. The women really don't enjoy it as much as men and view such behavior as a "get even" tactic.
In such a culture, though, it's not surprising that people are careless and even predatory about spreading VD. Casual sex is anything but.
April 16th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Actually, that was on Nov. 21st of 2005, so the figure probably wasn't much more than 3500-3700 (one would hope)....
Oh...sorry.
April 16th, 2008 at 11:30 am
"There is one thing we can be certain of: If Glenn was falsely accused of a crime or suffered disproportional sentencing, the so-called civil rights group NAACP wouldn't notice."
I don't know, they might care from the fact that he's Jewish. Although I've never seen any literature suggesting this happens in the US. Of course they would miss the most obvious one, that he's male.
April 16th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Callum says: "I don't know, they might care from the fact that he's Jewish. Although I've never seen any literature suggesting this happens in the US. Of course they would miss the most obvious one, that he's male."
PK adds: After black mayor, David Dinkins, was elected in NYC crime rates by blacks against Jews shot through the roof and Dinkins sat on his hands. The film Borat was very very very careful not to examine anti-semitism in the black community of NYC. That said, does the NAACP often work against anti-semitism?
The oldest civil rights organization in the USA, BTW, is the NRA.
April 16th, 2008 at 11:45 am
PK: I disagree with one point of your arguement: that women throw around their power over repoduction and children as a resentment over casual sex. I think is has to do with power, and the abuse thereof. Human history has shown that when one group is advantaged over another, they will abuse the disadvantaged group. There maybe excuses, reasons, or any other type of justification; but it comes down to taking adavantage of someone because they/we can.
Some women will use the children to control a man. Some will use the children to inflict harm for revenge (some over the resentment of the lack of fulfillment from casual sex). Some will selfishly use the children for more money/comfort. Some will selfishly 'hog' the children for more love. Some will selfishly take the children away from their father to pursue a career. But it all boils down to this: they will commit the selfish act because they can.
Later,
B
April 16th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
More Casual Sex
Hello BigB. On the contrary, History shows that men have been chivalrous and protective of women especially in the west and feminism is a product of patronage and indulgence, not oppression.
That said, this isn't just about one "group" abusing another although we live in a time when many women associate themselves more closely with the 'sisterhood' then they do their own male relatives such as their fathers, sons, and husbands. It's quite telling that women "abuse" their own children including female children by choosing to bear them into poverty or neglect and rationalize that it's acceptable because the man needs to be "responsible" for sex. That implies they have some kind of gripe.
Do you deny that women often express resentments for casual sex that are totally absent with men? There are movies that try to show men heartbroken when a one-night stand doesn't return his calls, but in the real world there's a double standard: Men view casual sex as empowering and women view it as draining.
I agree with you that we now have a culture that celebrates women exercising power, including abusive power, simply for the sake of doing so. But I think it's important we clarify that not everyone has abused their power and authority. Women have "achieved" equality in many things but not when it comes to being as supportive as men have shown towards their families.
April 16th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
GR said:
"Us guy types, we started noticing this HOW LONG AGO???"
E. Belfort Bax discussed the female prison discount about 100 years ago in his book "Fraud of Feminism."
MXY
April 16th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Its kind of like DV. Women suffer 5% of the official blame, and men 95% of the official blame. As your skins darkens, things tend to get worse.
April 16th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
PK responds: One could argue the same for adult men too, yes? Do adults consent to getting a disease or someone using bastard children against them?
Uh, no? Yes? You've lost me.
My point is that adults can give consent to take life-changing and life-altering risks. Kids are stupid when it comes to risks, so we don't let them make that kind of decision.
April 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Wandering off...
Chris_C says: "My point is that adults can give consent to take life-changing and life-altering risks. Kids are stupid when it comes to risks, so we don't let them make that kind of decision."
PK responds: I appreciate that point, but in the context of this discussion the women are not being charged with exposing them to an STD or unwanted bastard children. Even if the women had a certificate from the doctor saying they were clean and had their tubes tied, they would still be charged.
I've said several times that I don't think it's a big deal both when the young boys, if they were ok with it and no other harm done, and also when young girls are involved and provided no other harm done. 200 years ago, nobody would be batting an eye over this (except in back-then puritannical Boston.) It's wierd how times change but stay the same...
April 16th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Nobody seems to mention the fact that the guy planned the whole thing. On top of that, he has a previous record. Judges do take circumstances into account. On the other hand, I don't think the woman deserved just probation, but it's not as cut and dried as them both having equal parts in the robbery. He deserves a harsher sentence than her just because of his role.
April 16th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
As the symbol for justice is Lady Justice blindfolded, I think it should be changed, since Lady Justice is not blindfolded, not now days anymore since gender and race have some effect on the sentencing and how you are treated in a court of law, from handling, questioning and in cases of false allegations of rape and sexual assault from woman they do not have to face the accused in a court of law, this in direct contravention of the Constitution.
The symbol for justice the Lady has to be changed , the get out of jail and passing go and collecting your $200.00 only applies to the female gender as has been demonstrated numerous times.
My 2 cents
Luc
April 16th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
PK responds: I appreciate that point, but in the context of this discussion the women are not being charged with exposing them to an STD or unwanted bastard children. Even if the women had a certificate from the doctor saying they were clean and had their tubes tied, they would still be charged.
The intangibles are a lot harder to prove and a lot more difficult to write clear and effective laws for. Personally if my son was seduced/raped/boffed/whatever underage, I'd want a court-certified clean pap-smear and negative pregnancy test from the offender.
I think it's telling that STD's are *never* mentioned in these cases. Surely with the thousands (almost 4,000 last year according to the Smoking Gun) of these offenses some of the offenders were handing out the gifts that keep on giving. HPV/Genital Warts is present in 6-10% of the overall population, before you specifically select for people who make really poor choices.
200 years ago, nobody would be batting an eye over this (except in back-then puritannical Boston.)
Give Boston a break. From it's founding Boston had a red-light district and tolerated brothels for the sailors. Tremont Hill (or tri-mountain) doesn't exist anymore, having been used as fill material, the three peaks were Beacon Hill, Cotton Hill, and Mt. Whoredom. During the British occupation, the British military cartographer (famously) said, "There's perhaps no town of its size could turn out more whores than this could,".
April 16th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
PK: I do believe that there are a group of women who are resentful that casual, hook-up sex doesn't lead to a relationship. But I don't believe that women withhold their children from their fathers for this reason. If so, we would see this pattern of behavior from the beggining of time. (Casual sex has been around forever, it is out in the open now)
What is different now, from any other time in history is that women are highly advantaged in domestic/civil court. Why do women file for 70% of divorces? Because the get the most out of a divorce. Why do women have babies? Because they only have babies when it is an advantage to them.
To claim that men have always been 'chivalrous and protective of women' is true, in the broad sense of history; but when there is extreme inequities in power, abuse come to the surface. For example: Hitler killed 20 million defenseless people (6 million of them Jews), Stalin killed about 20 million non-Communists in the USSR, whites owned slaves in the US for a few hundred years, Rome conquered and enslaved much of the world, the Taliban were brutial in their rule of Afganastian (sp?), etc.
The way I see it; why shouldn't a woman commit crime? Back shoot your sleeping husband, spend 67 days in jail and go on Ophra. Screw what ever vulnrable teenager you want, you'll get probation. Cry rape, disgrace one of the most prestigeous universities in the land, they'll still think you're a victim. Society exists to enforce an agreed upon code of conduct, and if society isn't willing to enforce that code upon you, why would you live within that code? Hell, I'd drive around places at 110 mph if I knew the damn staters (who have no sense of humor in Indiana) wouldn't pull me over.
The barbie bandits have it all going for them, cute, young, white, and female. I'm surprised that no one has lept up to their defense on how they were led wrong by the patirachy, and given their own cable tv show.
Later,
B
April 16th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
White. Female. Attractive.
Trifecta!!
Thank goodness some of this stuff is FINALLY starting to get some MSM attention. Like it's a breaking story or something. Sheesh.
April 16th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I see the same thing happen for many cases of DWI, public intoxication, speeding tickets, etc. I've seen first hand women get away with this kind of thing, and they'll come to work and brag about it, too. "I just batted my eyes at him, and leaned forward, and he let me off with a warning! How cool is that?"
While I think the 'mastermind' deserves an additional sentence, I think these women should have gotten a few years hard time for their involvement, but as it turns out, the only hard time assigned was due to possession of a small amount of narcotic, which, really, was a moot point by the time they committed armed bank robbery. This judge needs to be tossed out. It will be interesting to see "Barbie Horton" ads come out when his seat is up for re-election.
April 16th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Timm:
Even though the guy planned the whole thing, the women made a conscious decision to take part in it. If I were to go out and attach myself to a bank robbery scheme and get caught, would I get any less of a mandatory sentence for not being involved in the planning?
The fact of the matter is these girls got pathetically light sentences for BANK ROBBERY. It's not like they were caught speeding.
April 16th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
I've often noticed that in a "general sense" men tend to be called to the carpet on the slightest infraction, while women are usually given a free pass...
April 16th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
[quote]I do believe that there are a group of women who are resentful that casual, hook-up sex doesn't lead to a relationship. But I don't believe that women withhold their children from their fathers for this reason.[/quote]
My husband's ex-Mistress, even after she was told from the beginning that she would never have the same status in his eyes as I do (his wife) has decided to withhold the child because he refuses to go to her house and continue the sexual relationship they had until he proved that she was lying to him over certain outside things. She uses the child as a revenge tactic. Her intent, as we discovered, had been to take my husband and daughter. She was caught telling my daughter that she was "her other mommy".
April 16th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
@maeve
I am sorry to hear that she has put you both through such trials and tribulations.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
So... a female bank robber gets nothing more than probation, but this same judge will throw the book at any man who is unfortunate enough to loose his job and fall behind on child support?
Oh yes my friends, I've known fathers who have had the misfortune of dealing with this particular judge. In addition to being extremely anti-male in divorce/child custody decisions, she also has a reputation for being extremely generous with "child support" awards. There is nothing like an unbiased court and this is clearly nothing like an unbiased court.
Has anyone EVER heard of a bank robber that got nothing more than probation?
April 16th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
@Dave
To answer your question, no. Bank robbery is a "federal felony." The main difference between a federal and state felony is that you do not get "time off, or early release" from your sentence. If you get 25 in federal you serve 25, if you get 25 in state you may do 11, and get paroled.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:26 am
@Dave:
Good, I hope someone starts documenting her judgements and presenting it when she comes up for re-election.
July 12th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Pretty girls do get an easier time in court except in cases of child abuse. However instead of raising their sentences (which is costly and wasteful) we should lower the sentences of men committing the same offenses instead.
As for the Barbie Bandits, meh. It was a pretty minor offense all things considered and one unlikely to be repeated. Its hardly a grave injustice if someone who does no serious harm to others gets off easy