Author Says Divorced/Separated Dads Owe Their Exes a Mother's Day Gift
May 7th, 2008 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & Families
This article by Rebecca Eckler, author of Toddlers Gone Wild!, is so offensive in so many ways it's hard to know where to begin.
Here's one. Rebecca writes:
"On behalf of my four-year-old, who has a Yahoo account in her name, I recently sent an e-mail to her father, who lives in Alberta.
"'Hi Daddy,' I typed, as my daughter was fast asleep. 'Mommy has been talking about Mother's Day. I only have 143 pennies in my piggy bank. She's the best mommy ever. She's been pretty exhausted. I'd like to get her something nice. Can you help? Love you.'
"It was a slightly pathetic, but possibly cute, way of reminding my daughter's father about Mother's Day.
"On what is perhaps the Hallmark holiday of all Hallmark holidays, what's a single mother to do to get some sort of recognition? It's certainly not going to come from a child who still licks glue and is too young to understand the concept.
"But modern single mothers, whether they've chosen to be single, still get along with the father of their children, or have no contact with the father at all, are finding new ways to make Mother's Day special (and, in some cases, more fruitful)...
"As for me, the e-mail worked. I'll be at a spa, thanks to my four-year-old's request via her mother's e-mail."
I love that--mom is so entitled to even more of dad's money that she brags in the national media about her need to "remind my daughter's father about Mother's Day," as if it's his problem.
Here's another:
"All mothers of young children rely on gifts made by someone else. For the single mom, feeling the need for something more than a crumpled card in a knapsack - something that comes with a gift receipt - presents a particular dilemma. You can't very well hand over $20 to your three year-old to do your shopping.
"So some have learned to lobby on their own behalf.
"'I've drilled it into him,' says Toronto-based Vanessa Craft, the author of Out of Character, about her three-year-old daughter's father, who lives in England.
"Growing up, Mother's Day, like most holidays, had always been recognized in my house. So it's a big deal. I even remind my daughter's father that on her birthday I should also get something, for the fact that I gave birth,' Ms. Craft says.
"'Her dad knows to make me cards, at the very least, on behalf of our daughter,' says Ms. Craft, adding, 'I've never had a bad Mother's Day being a single mom.'"
Huh? Her ex owes her a Mother's Day gift?
One other note--in both cases (Rebecca Eckler and Vanessa Craft) the children are very young and the fathers live far away. Rebecca dumped the father of her child, to whom she was engaged to be married, for another man. I don't know what happened in Vanessa's case, but statistically the odds are good that she was the one who initiated the divorce/breakup. In both cases it was probably the women who moved away. So having already severed most of the loving bonds between the fathers and their little children, the women now feel deprived and entitled to even more from dad.
Here's a third section:
"Stacey Otis, a single mother of three, says that without a partner there is 'such a greater connection with your children,' and that Mother's Day is always 'awesome.'
"She celebrates the day at her house, or at one of her siblings' houses, and has turned it into 'Family Mother's Day.'
"Unlike many of my mother friends, who moan about husbands forgetting Mother's Day entirely, or who complain about partners not even giving them two hours of alone time, Ms. Otis says, 'My Mother's Days are always special. When my kids get excited to give me what they made at school, it's like gold. When you know all you have is each other, it makes the day really special.'"
So Stacey Otis' kids are better off because they don't have a dad? That's odd, since being without a dad greatly increases their chances for most youth pathologies, including drugs, crime, teen pregnancy, and dropouts.
And of course Stacey is better off, because all of her friends' husbands are louts who spend much of the their time working to support their wives and children. And Stacey's excessively critical female attitude probably gives you a good clue as to why her and Rebecca's and Vanessa's relationships ended, too.
The full article is--get this--Get what you want this Mother's Day. Twist the ex's arm (Globe and Mail, 5/6/08). To write a Letter to the Editor of the Globe and Mail about this piece, click on Letters@globeandmail.com.
Thanks to Luc Chagnon, a Canadian reader, for sending the article.
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May 7th, 2008 at 10:23 am
pathetic - simply pathetic
i have to say my most cherished father's day gifts are the 'crumpled ones from a backpack". They are made with love and have more meaning than any treatment from a dayspa could ever mean.
I have saved all of them and sometimes pull them out to remind myself how much I cherish the every minute I get to spend with my children. I don't need anything else to make me feel special.
All I can say to Rebecca is you go girl!! - You have shown how you measure your self-worth by the "gifts" you acquired and the manner in which you got them in a way few others can
May 7th, 2008 at 10:31 am
At 23 years of age, I have told countless times by my parents that the only thing they want on mother's and father's day is a nice phone where we can just chat about family, rather than the stresses of everyday life (I gave up on cards when their post office couldn't be relied on to deliver them on time). When I was a child, it was a little different; the only thing mom asked for was some peace and quiet during the day (and maybe some hugs and kisses too). Such greed as displayed in this article is incomprehensible to me. I can imagine this kind of person in real life, and it is not a fine picture.
May 7th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Can 4 year olds even type?
May 7th, 2008 at 10:49 am
If the genders were reversed, there'd be no sympathy for the man. With this story, there are surely a ton of single and lesbian women shouting, "You go, girl!" And, of course, they can all go to hell.
". . . being without a dad greatly increases their chances for most youth pathologies, including drugs, crime, teen pregnancy, and dropouts." Glenn, right on. You may want to check into this: while having both parents is best, I believe that from a scientific perspective, having a father is much more important to the child's well-being than (gasp) having a mother. With advances in science, it should not be long before child birth can occur without a woman's involvement. I do not advocate that by any means, but I suspect that in the future mothers will be far more superfluous than fathers.
May 7th, 2008 at 10:57 am
It's a little silly to think that a four year old can type but I'm willing to believe that the four year old wanted to talk to her dad so she had the mom type for her.
May 7th, 2008 at 10:59 am
These words clearly demonstrate the presence of a pathology.
May 7th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Nah, my daughter was typing by mid-4.
Of course, she was fragging my friends by early-4 ;)
She loved sitting on my lap and seeing what daddy was up to on the computer. She already knew how to read pretty well by that age, so typing followed easily.
May 7th, 2008 at 11:15 am
""I've drilled it into him,' says Toronto-based Vanessa Craft, the author of Out of Character, about her three-year-old daughter's father, who lives in England.
Huh? A 3-year-old should have it "drilled into him" that he's somehow responsible for mommy getting more more more? And her ex owes her a Mother's Day gift?"
Just to clarify, the author seems to be saying that she "drilled it" into the head of the three year old's father, not the three year old.
That said, it's not shocking that this type of person exists. It's shocking that they are so unashamed of the behavior, that they publish it smugly without an ounce of regret in their tone.
May 7th, 2008 at 11:18 am
For a fun review of one of this piece of work's books, see: h t t p : / / w w w . q u i l l a n d q u i r e . c o m / r e v i e w s / r e v i e w . c f m ? r e v i e w _ i d = 5 4 5 4
May 7th, 2008 at 11:20 am
I can't say I completely agree with you here Glenn.
The reason why is that I can't imagine how this fellow could have been "decieved" in this situation.
His daughter is 4 years old... hardly capable of typing a letter in complete sentences unless she is a certified genius.
She probably can't even read.
As a result, when he recieved this e-mail, it must have been completely obvious that his ex was sending it to him in an effort to have a special mothers day, knowing fully well that their daughter was still far too young to do anything about it herself.
That being said, the guy in question had the choice to do something or not to do something... and he clearly made the choice to send her to the spa not because he was "tricked" but because either he felt guilty, or actually wanted to do something for her on mothers day.
Had their daughter been 10, and this same sort of thing occured, I'd be with you 100%... but given the specifics, I find it hard to believe that this guy actually thought his 4 year old typed up and sent him that e-mail on her own.
That being said, I do feel as if this particular woman is being selfish as she seems to see the job of parenting as being "all about her"... my question would be if she buys him a present for fathers day, or sends him a card, or calls him to put their daughter on the phone for his special day... if she reciprocated those efforts then I see no problems with the situation... if she doesn't, then it is merely a one way street, and that I see as a problem.
May 7th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Glenn - I can't buy the notion that Eckler's ex was deceived. The child is 4 years old and the email contained the word "exhausted." It was obvious who wrote it.
That said, it's astonishing that these guys go along with this. Mother's day gifts to a woman you're not married to? I don't think so.
May 7th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Thanks for renewing my disgust for women.
There is a reason this woman is a single mother. It's because she is a manipulative skank.
May 7th, 2008 at 11:45 am
In America, it is O.K. for a woman to lie to a man to acquire money, as women have victimized by men for about 10,000 years.
As long as men are the enemy of the state, the relationship between a men and women will not change.
Feminist propaganda secures ill-gotten financial benefits without shame, no surprise that women are attracted to it.
May 7th, 2008 at 11:46 am
And isn't it a known fact that society cares about 1/10th as much about Father's Day as Mother's Day? I think it was Warren Farrell who said something like that the day of the year with the most collect calls made is on fathers day. As such, shouldn't the article be the other way around and call attention to the under-appreciation of fathers?
Sheesh!
MXY
May 7th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Women friends advised me to avoid single mothers because many develop this pathology where they substitute relations with their children for adult intimate relations with a husband. Someday, the children (and the mother for that matter) have to grow up and move on with their life and she's not doing them any favors by smothering them.
I know how much Glenn and other father's cherish such days, but I think Glenn is mature enough to not break out in tears and get angry if his children were to innocently forget about it. We're adults. For children, holidays and presents are a big deal because they have so little money to buy things and lavish parties are new to them. But as an adult, well, holidays mean more to me in terms of an excuse to cut back and relax a little and break open cake and wine with friends and family. If someone gives me a salad shooter, it's no sweat for me other than a bad feeling at money wasted on crap. I'm a grown up and EVERY DAY God gives me is something to celebrate.
May 7th, 2008 at 11:48 am
I'm sorry, but Mother's Day is not the day when fathers are obligated to provide gifts to the mother of their children. Mother's Day is the day when CHILDREN recognize and honor their mother. To "drill into" the head of the non-custodial parent that a gift is REQUIRED because she's a mom is ludicrous. And I found it astounding that she also insists that on the children's birthday SHE deserves a gift, too, because she bore the child.
Hell, if that's how it works, I deserve a gift EVERY FREAKING DAY OF THE YEAR because I endured being married to my ex for years.
I wonder (pessimistically) if these same women make sure that their kids honor their fathers on Father's Day, and if these women send gifts (something that comes with a gift receipt ) to the dads?
May 7th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Jason & Rob F.
You may be right, but there are a couple issues to consider.
Number 1, we don't know a lot of the details of the story. We know she purportedly sent the email and what it said, but from there we jump to "it worked." We don't know what the father's responses to the email were or whether it was treated as tongue-in-cheek from the very beginning.
Number 2, let's examine the father's options. If he ignores this email, she will no doubt assail him for being a cruel, uncaring father that ignores the cute, innocent pleas of four year olds, and probably kicks puppies, too. I'm pretty sure it is no-win for him in this case.
Even if we assume that the father caved and/or played along here, that's CLEARLY not how the author intends to make it appear. She not only writes the article to make it look as though the father was tricked or hamstrung, ("Twist the Ex's Arm" is right in the title,) but also that women should use this type of devious behavior because they are entitled to get what they want. No matter what the father did, it doesn't take away from the disgustingness of the article or its author.
May 7th, 2008 at 11:54 am
I don't think the Stacy person is saying her kid's are better off without their Father. She is saying SHE is better off without their Father. She seems to be making the best of the situation in at least a modestly more constructive way than the other two.
Of course she likely created the situation and didn't take her children's interest to heart. I don't know that is to be particularly elevated over the material greed expressed by the other ladies.
[sarcasm] And heaven knows after Harq settng me straight I'll never generalize women as being 'entitlement princesses' again. [/sarcasm]
May 7th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Once again we have to apply the reversal test. How would this fly if this had been a custodial dad who had used a young child to con the non custodial mom out of a set of some very expensive computer parts (or whatever frivilous purchase)?
May 7th, 2008 at 11:57 am
'Gifts' to the woman who is controlling access to your child? Were I to use the word extortion would it be clear?
May 7th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Crystal.
May 7th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Anyone else spot that the title of the (single Mother) Author's book is "Toddlers gone wild"?
Hmmm.. might that be an (albeit unintentional) nod to the behavioural difficulties in children that tend to be amplified when their Fathers are removed from their upbringing?
The idea that I'd buy my ex-wife (if we got divorced of course) a present for either of my Daughters' Birthdays, just because she gave birth to them, made me laugh out loud. I love and cherish my wife, but the kids' Birthdays are THEIR days - not hers or mine (except in the sense that we celebrate having them in our life).
May 7th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
The Jews have a word for it - chutzpah.
We also have a word for it - fraud.
May 7th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
I was gonna reply, then wasn't, then was... phuck it, here goes:
By my own estimations and anicodotal evidence, I'd say 70-80% of American Women have entitlement poisoning to one degree or another. 50% are an easy weed-out (my numbers are around the same as Rudov's). That 50% won't even go on a first date dutch. They expect you to pay for their time. They are no better than prostitutes, only they are socially accepted. The remaining 20-30% suffer lesser degrees of entitlement poisoning, but still expect entitlement in their direction. They expect preferential treatment just for being born female in one form or another. This could be expecting her desires to be pandered to ("I get to choose where we go on vacation") etc. The quickest way to judge this is to be dating her during Valentines day. If she expects it to be all about her (but goes dutch on dating) then she's in the 20-30% of harder-to-detect entitlement princesses.
How do these entitlement princesses come about? We allow women to have expectations of men. We do not allow men to have expectations of women. That's how it comes about: We allow women to decide how men "have" to treat them without requiring these women to do anything other than be themselves.
May 7th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
She's a mother alright!.
May 7th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
"All mothers of young children rely on gifts made by someone else. For the single mom, feeling the need for something more than a crumpled card in a knapsack - something that comes with a gift receipt - presents a particular dilemma. You can't very well hand over $20 to your three year-old to do your shopping.
Okay, I don't get it. Why can't you hand over $20 dollars to your three year old to do some shopping? I've been doing it for years as a single dad. I give my kid the money, then follow him at a respectable distance through a department store. When he gets to something he thinks I'll like, he tells me to turn my head and I turn my head at the end of the isle. I just don't look at the gift. He buys it, and keeps it close to the chest until we get home, then he hides it.
Now granted, I've got some pretty illogical things, but thankfully he's never gotten me anything that he figured he would get (you know, the Pokemon for Daddy that if I don't like it, "Can I have it if you're not going to use it?"). Last year, I suggested that I really really needed a new pair of sunglasses, and he got me a pair of safety glasses with amber lenses (hey it was a good try), but it was still special to me. I've never ever ever felt obligated to tell my ex that its father's day and she owes me a gift, but I do typically give my son 10 bucks and we choose a small gift for mother's day. It's not so much for her benefit as it is for my son.
He adds it to the crumpled backpack gift he made at school, and I've not heard a complaint yet.
May 7th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
look at me everybody! look at me!! I'm a selfish manipulative liar!!
May 7th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
To "drill into" the head of the non-custodial parent that a gift is REQUIRED because she's a mom is ludicrous. And I found it astounding that she also insists that on the children's birthday SHE deserves a gift, too, because she bore the child.
My mother believes the same thing and tried to get us to give her gifts on our birthdays. It's really sick in my opinion to say to a child "You owe me for bringing you into the world."
May 7th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
To Jason and R Franklin:
The dad may not take it hook line and sinker, but you don't have to imagine he's an idiot. If the daughter was informed of the e-mail, if they wrote it together, the guy faces a tough position where he loses either way: if he rejects it, child will certainly get negative propaganda about him; if he pays it, there is a chance the mom will say something nice about him. He is making a short-term payment, which only encourages her bad behavior to continue. However, I am certain that if he didn't pay, the mom would have made the child complicit in this trap. The youth of the child makes it much harder for the dad to explain what is really going on. And his reply will likely end up in the child's inbox to be read later, no matter where he responded. My kids' mom does this all the time.
He fell for the trap, but it doesn't mean he didn't know it was a trap--- he just thought the easiest way out was to pay. A lot of dads make similar decisions, even if the situation is not the exact same thing.
Thanks for giving the paper's letters address, Glenn. I'll thank them for encouraging people to feel good about putting the tort on the ex. Extort, get it? And she's proud of it. What a reprobate.
May 7th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
I still can't fathom the mother who doens't like the crumpled card their child made in school just for them. I'm not saying it has to be the only thing one receives, but from a small child, it is coming straight from the heart.
May 7th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
taidan Said: "I still can't fathom the mother who doesn't like the crumpled card their child made in school just for them. I'm not saying it has to be the only thing one receives, but from a small child, it is coming straight from the heart."
I'm with you. My son is 12 now, and I still have the father's day tshirt with his handprints that he made me when he was 4, and the pencil holder he made when he was 3, and the bookmark he made when.... etc. etc.
I'd rather have a home-made card than some gift card to chili's any ol' day. It's not about the STUFF. It's about the HEART!!
May 7th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
I wonder if this mother can be charged with identity theft?
May 7th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Chances are she initiated the divorce and now she's exhausted. She gained reproductive freedom and power and control over the children, but it comes at a price. Even though she's compensated with generous child support, she wants more. The children become a chore and in some cases they are treated as if they are mutilated beggars.
May 7th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
The crumpled handmade card, the stick figure drawing of "Daddy and Tim and Me", the handmade coupons "good for hugs anytime" are the things I cherish most and still have. Greedy, narcissistic, entitled, dishonest, manipulative, self centered comes to mind. I think that the best thing to happen to her ex is that he did not marry her. That would have been hell to the exponential level.
May 7th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
If it's any comfort, the readers on the newspaper she published in are just as disgusted as the folks here on this site. And they appear to be shocked as well, which is refreshing (I think we're all more jaded on this site...)
May 7th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Anybody think the guy Rebecca married makes less or has a less prestigious job than the father of the child?
May 7th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Gee, and I thought it was considered tacky to go fishing for presents from anyone...much less the man whose life you've probably turned upside down with a divorce and removal of his kids from the home...
May 7th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Andy S.:
Although even in their unified denouncing of this piece of garbage, posters like "N. Smith from Canada" still find a way to chastise (what appears to be) a decent guy who has the audacity to relate this story's message to the misandry that is becoming ever more present in our lives. When the guy calmly and rationally defends himself, out comes the word "misogyny."
May 7th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Lewis:
I'm not positive, but I don't think Eckler ever got married.
Also, this lovely lady is celebrating her 35th birthday on Sunday. Boy, I hope she gets what she wants!
May 7th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
a gift is REQUIRED because she's a mom
Even Anna Jarvis, the woman who pushed for Mother's Day to become a holiday in the United States, grew to regret it, when it became about gift entitlement rather than honoring accomplishments.
It's extra ridiculous when you realize every day in 21st century America is Mother's Day. Since 1972, women have a choice not to be mothers if they'd rather not raise their little burdens, but there's no other group as pandered to by politicians, media, etc. Especially single mothers.
May 7th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
I wonder what my ex-wife will get me for Father's Day when she gets a letter from "my daughter" that comes from her own address (since I am not allowed to be a custodial parent, being a Father and all) saying that Daddy is exhausted from working so hard to pay alimony -ooooops! I mean Child Support to Mommy and can't afford to go to the Daddy Spa.
May 7th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Andy S. - Kudos to you for pointing out that dad isn't a dolt who thought a 4-year old wrote that. Even when my children were infants/toddlers... they "wrote" thank-you cards to gift-givers. Let's not pretend the guy was duped, but probably assumed that daughter approached mom to write daddy a letter. Once that pattern has been established... it's easy for a scumbag like her to use the child's communications with the dad to extort money/gifts from him.
May 7th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Tim M,
Seems to me like a cut and dried case of wire fraud:
"Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both."
18 U.S.C. § 1343
http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001343----000-.html
May 7th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
These women insist on a gift for Mother's Day from their exes?
Do they make sure they send something for Father's Day? Do they make sure their kids send something more than a crumpled card in a knapsack? Or is this just a way of disguising their own greed and out-sized sense of entitlement?
May 7th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Wire fraud. Love it!
Another "independent" woman who doesn't need a MAN to raise a child! Doesn't this woman's attitude basically come down to the idea that, since he once had access to her "magic place," he is permanently obligated to pay for that "pleasure"? Funny how that moves the focus from mommy to wh*re. And passing this attitude along to her daughter is a given, right? I've said it before -- single motherhood by choice should be viewed as presumptive child abuse.
Final thought: Let's raise some consciousness by BOYCOTTING FATHER'S DAY! As of two years ago, as a protest against the anti-father environment in this country, I have asked my kids NOT to buy ANYTHING to commemorate Father's Day. No cards, no ties, no tools, no nothing. All I want from them are best wishes, hugs and kisses. I think this is a positive way to make a statement and increase awareness of the situation fathers face.
May 7th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
She needs to be spayed. No more children for her. She is horrible.
May 7th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
If anybody's interested, here's a link to a piece she wrote about taking up with another guy while she was pregnant with her fiance's child.
Pretty deep narcicism.
May 7th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
It is always funny comparing the stereotypical gifts associated with Mother's Day vs. Father's Day. Mother's Day gifts often emphasize fun, relaxation, self-indulgence, and frivolity. Examples include flowers, chocolate, massages, and spa treatments. Father's Day gifts, on the other hand, emphasize practicality, disposability, or enhancing one's ability to protect or provide (such as tools, ties, work-gloves, car-hart work jackets, etc).
What is really funny is I saw a t-shirt at Mill's Fleet Farm that said something like: "The Man's Mall." The place is like a breeding ground for workaholics (paint, faucets, flooring, light fixtures, tools, etc). How is that even remotely comparable to a normal shopping mall that stresses clothing, materialism, shoes, and manicures? Talk about manipulation.
MXY
May 7th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Maybe we should have a Princess Day?
Demonspawn says: "How do these entitlement princesses come about? We allow women to have expectations of men. We do not allow men to have expectations of women. That's how it comes about: We allow women to decide how men "have" to treat them without requiring these women to do anything other than be themselves."
PK: For the record, Demonspawn, I think your numbers are low. From my experiences and that of other men I know, a vast majority (90% or more) of women expect men to pay for dates with the caveat that if men can arrange "hook ups" (shags at home or "cheap dates") they can avoid the situation altogether but the women still think the men should pay one way or the other. If they accept dutch, it's either out of insecurity or they'll resent it later (one girlfriend held a grudge about it years later.)
That said, I do hold an expectation that women should do a greater share of the housework and I have men here who call me a beast for saying it up front like that. Many feminists will claim that even if the woman is a SAH wife (not even a mother, just a wife) then the man should still help out 50/50 with the chores. If these women develop even more of an entitlement machine, they'll require us to buy them a machine to help them BREATHE! (You know, it's just so much work to use your chest muscles to draw air in and out...)
May 7th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
MXY,
Good point, but it seems like it is that way for all occaisions anymore. It's getting worse too. Entitlement princesses everywhere!
May 7th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
After reading more about her, i truly feel sorry for her daughter.
May 7th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
This is what I call the "pedestal effect." Women today view themselves as not only entitled to this and that, but also placed upon a pedestal of moral, spiritual, and intellectual superiority.
May 7th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
MasculistXY Says:
May 7th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
It is always funny comparing the stereotypical gifts associated with Mother's Day vs. Father's Day. Mother's Day gifts often emphasize fun, relaxation, self-indulgence, and frivolity. Examples include flowers, chocolate, massages, and spa treatments. Father's Day gifts, on the other hand, emphasize practicality, disposability, or enhancing one's ability to protect or provide (such as tools, ties, work-gloves, car-hart work jackets, etc).
Let's reverse this shall we? What happens when a man buys a "practical" gift for a woman? Men actually do appreciate getting these practical gifts such as tools, ties, etc., but if a woman gets a useful or practical (as defined by male thinking of course) gift, she is insulted and attributes it to the "patriarchy"! It has become an age old feminist joke about the man who buys his wife a new vacuum cleaner so she doesn't have to sweep the floor (assuming the wife only works in the home and not elsewhere). Does the wife appreciate the gift of easier work? Of course not. The feminists are disgusted with the idea of a practical gift, and of course would prefer something pretty but totally useless to show how much her man loves her.
I have to say it must be ingrained into me because I would LOVE to have a gift card to the tool store. I like cars that go fast, tools to work on them, and things that go bang-bang. But, on the other hand, I would also love to have that glued-together, construction paper Father's Day card from my daughter that has sparkles all over it that get all over my clothing (that make other guys laugh), and is crumpled from her backpack. THAT card would mean the world to me, but only if it comes from my daughter, not my wife. I am after all, a Daddy. My daughter's respect, love, and admiration are all I live for.
May 7th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Okay the 'new guy' then.
I wish I hadn't laughed at this.
May 7th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
"Women friends advised me to avoid single mothers because many develop this pathology where they substitute relations with their children for adult intimate relations with a husband. Someday, the children (and the mother for that matter) have to grow up and move on with their life and she's not doing them any favors by smothering them."
So true, PK. My mother-in-law did exactly this with my wife. So what happened when my wife married me and moved three states away? My mother-in-law began a rapid slide into dementia.
The healthiest families are the ones where the husband/wife relationship comes first. My wife says her mother's pathetic life at least served to vividly teach her this truth.
May 7th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Bill C........Judging by the amount of whining involved in her first childbirth, I would not worry about her doing it again
May 7th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
It's women like this that make the rest of us look bad. Not all of us are this shallow or superficial. Homemade gifts are just fine for me. As a matter of fact, they mean a lot more than something that was bought out of obligation because society dictates it. Why don't the dads ever sit down and help their child make something for their moms?
I am in my 40's now and I have never had a manicure or pedicure or been to a spa. Sure, I would love to be pampered, but that is not something I would ever use child support money for or try to con my ex-husband out of money for.
Bill C- Why should she be "spayed," as you put it. It takes 2 to make a baby... maybe he should be castrated.
May 7th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Peachz - You are correct, women like this DO make the rest of them look bad. In exactly the same way, a very small percentage of men make the rest of US look bad. Unfortunately for men on the other hand, large entrenched, decades old feminist organizations work full time to not only make all men look bad, but force governments (including chivalrous men who are oblivious to current reality) to pass laws that put good men in jail and force them into poverty. You appear to be an exception to the rule from my own viewpoint.
As to your last comment, I make no excuses for the angry or sarcastic person that made a comment about "spayed", but have you taken a look at some of the nastiness directed at men in the media, in the workplace, in the home, in public? Do you even notice when women demean and emasculate men in their everyday conversations? These women aren't called out on it, they get a "YOU GO GIRL!". I can't count the number of times I have heard angry women speak of mutilating a man's genitals. Do you think we find it humorous? The majority of men that post here seem to be trying to promote fairness for men and women, just like feminists USED to do. Take a close look at the comments made on feminist sites and make a comparison Peachz.
May 7th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Bill C- Why should she be "spayed," as you put it. It takes 2 to make a baby... maybe he should be castrated.
Because, out of the two, she's the one who has demonstrated an inability to handle the responsibility of parenthood.
May 7th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
"Women friends advised me to avoid single mothers because many develop this pathology"
Oh you mean like this?...
False abuse accusation seeks somewhere to happen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3gDyem8H14
I wonder if the judge would let you introduce the video as evidence.
May 7th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Don't forget - the publication that printed this is fully as unethical and obnoxious as Eckler.
May 7th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Jorge wrote,
"Women today view themselves as not only entitled to this and that, but also placed upon a pedestal of moral, spiritual, and intellectual superiority."
That's correct. Then women complain that they are oppressed because men place them on a pedestal.
May 7th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Tim O'Brien- couldn't see the link
May 7th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Their sense of entitlement is disgusting. Who said you were entitled to a mothers/fathers day at all? Much less gifts?
It makes me think of all the whiny kids when they don't get what they want for their birthday. Or my peers getting fussy when their forgotten on their birthday, as if some how the day you were born had meaning other than a marker of age? It's fun to celebrate, I won't take that away from anyone, but but take it as it is: a gift. You say thank you and you be goddamned happy you got anything at all, much less had anyone around you that cared enough to remember.
*Says me, the guy who has, on purpose, not celebrated his birthday in a decade*
May 7th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Steve Says:
"Number 1, we don't know a lot of the details of the story."
You are right... all I know is that the daughter is 4 years old... and that the letter sent to the father was from an online account and was written in complete sentences, and seemed to involve some awareness of budgeting and the cost of items (i.e. knowledge that 143 pennies would not be enough for whatever she wanted to get her). None of these things seem like the actions of a typical 4 year old and I would assume that the father was savvy enough to figure out that the e-mail was written by his ex... furthermore, I think it was savvy enough to know that she intended for him to know it was from her.
I don't see the deception here.
Is it manipulative?... maybe... but it certainly isn't deceptive unless the daughter in question is a child prodigy... or the father in question is mentally deficient.
The mother seems to indicate that her daughter isn't a little Newton or Einstein since she talks about her licking glue and not understanding the concept of Mother's Day... so I think it is safe to assume that the father has all his faculties intact.
If someone wants to argue that even her asking for anything was out of line, that is fine by me... but portraying it as a deceptive action seems a bit of a stretch.
"Number 2, let's examine the father's options. If he ignores this email, she will no doubt assail him for being a cruel, uncaring father that ignores the cute, innocent pleas of four year olds, and probably kicks puppies, too. I'm pretty sure it is no-win for him in this case."
I don't know about that... if the father was clever he could actually turn this around into a situation where she is forced to reciprocate or she looks like the uncaring individual.
He could have easily responded with "Hey sweetie, I'm glad that you want to get your mom something for her holiday, I'd be happy to help you out. Just remember when Father's Day comes around who the best daddy ever is and to ask your mom for help. Love you."
Something like that makes it abundantly clear that he is happy to show her appreciation for being a good mother so long as she shows appreciation for him being a good father.
If she takes offense at the mere suggestion of such a thing, he doesn't come off as the lout, she does.
If she does go along with it, then over all it is probably a positive as it will lead to a better functioning relationship between the two of them and foster a more communal form of parenting.
"No matter what the father did, it doesn't take away from the disgustingness of the article or its author."
I disagree... in this situation he had a very viable option to even the playing field... to let the mother know that he was willing to help her be appreciated for being a good mother if and only if she reciprocated when his special day came around. If she wasn't willing, then she shouldn't expect anything either.
You said yourself that we don't know a lot of the details, but then you are concluding that the mother in question is looking to strong arm him with the threat "do this or I'll bad mouth you to our daughter"... those two positions are mutually exclusive.
Either we know the details or we do not... if we don't know the details, then we can't conclude anything about what would happen if he just said no.
May 7th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
What I would like to say to the mother is: shame on you for using your little girl like that. You do get child support, that is enough. You are "owed" exactly NOTHING MORE THAN THAT!! Women like you disgust me as you give every woman the stain of your greed. Have you no shame??
May 7th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
The assumption of a general lack of ethics, empathy, morality, and some kind of spirituality in the female gender is a troubling, if interesting social dilemma for our culture.
Mostly men's advocates are crticizing the obvious predatory materialism of modern females, but there are other layers to peel away once you get beyond their festishes for shoes, marriage, alimony, and child support.
My older (25 year-old) daughter is a master designer in an upscale metro spa where she will be pleased to cut your hair for $200 and it takes six weeks to get an appointment with her. She has tapped into female vanity as her bank.
So, she's dealing with an elite and privileged demographic of women. (And she is therefore an excellent source of "inside information" about a certain class of women.)
She tells me that the majority of the banter is men-bashing. Women with that much vanity to spend are sitting in the salon and complaining about their husbands and men in general!
I just do not understand female psychology. Neither did Freud, after a lifetime of trying, he gave it up and died.
I guess the irrational gender has the secret and the upper hand.
You will probably never be able to logically answer the question -- "What do women want?"
May 7th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Additionally she has demonstrated a significant sense of entitlement that, in my opinion anyway, isn't something to be passed to children.
May 7th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Peachz
If the father acted like as much of a moron as she is, "bragging" about being a liar, then yes he should be neutered. I did not see it in this case. I stand by what I said, and the more I think about it, the more horrible she seems.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:25 am
to give you all a little background on this story, Rebecca Ekler was not married but in a common law relationship with the father. They seperated after moving to Alberta for his work and she was working writing for a local paper.
After the seperation she moved without notice to the father from Alberta to Toronto. Now she holds it against the father that he does not spend enough time with the daughter but she keeps saying in some of her articles that she needs breaks because being a single mother is hard work and tiresome but usually only asks with a few days notice if he can babysit the child for her while she takes a break, she often complains in her articles about how difficult she has it as a single mother. She puts down the father quite a bit in her past articles, will try and find some of them to post.
I have written to the Globe and Mail immediatly after reading this article and have told them that if they do continue with this type of articles I will cancel my subscription with them.
My 2 cents.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Forgot to mention that I sent this article in to show that the entitlement princess syndrome is not only an american problem but a western society problem felt in many other places around the world.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:02 am
Luc,
That additional information paints a more complete picture of what is going on here for me.
I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt when I am in the dark about many of the details, but it definately seems from what you've said like she isn't interested in being appreciated for being a good mother, but rather that she just wants to get presents and will use whatever excuse necessary to obtain them.
If she was at least willing to promote the father as a good guy, and show similar appreciation to him for his efforts in raising their daughter I could see the exchange as having some sort of a positive effect.
However the picture you are painting with her just up and leaving the area the father lived in... then being resentful of the fact that he can't be as involved in the day to day activities of raising their daughter... and that because of this he somehow owes her something doesn't leave much room for doubt in terms of her motivations here.
No one owes her anything for the decisions she has elected to make for her life... if she doesn't like having to handle most of the parenting duties she should have thought about that before moving away from the father.
The decisions we make in life always come with benefits and costs... if we aren't willing to deal with those costs then we need to make different decisions... I guess some adults never learn that lesson.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:30 am
"This article by Rebecca Eckler, author of Toddlers Gone Wild!, is so offensive in so many ways it's hard to know where to begin".
Fortis says to himself: How bad can it be?
Several paragraphs later: I'm still shaking my head. Wow.....................just wow. I sincerely hope she is joking but something tells me she actually did do this and actually feels a sense of entitlement.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:08 am
This story reminds of an incident I came across, slightly different, but it still contains the vital ingredient of manipulation and blackmail.
Two people I know were living together, however he cheated on her and they split up. This doesn't reflect well on him, but these thing happen. They both worked as volunteers at major beer festivals in the UK, but she told the organisers of the biggest festival in the country "if he works at his festival, I don't - and you need me more than you need him." I won't go into the details of why her presence would have been more important than his - but she related this story to me quite cheerfully at a party.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:08 am
@Malcolm...
Thankyou for relating that story.
Other stories...
One personal...
My sister committed what today is legally rape in order to get pregnant and pin down her boyfriend for support. She brags about how she did it to this day.
And one not...
In the mid nineties Lorena Bobbit committed a brutal sexual assault of her husband. She was feted and applauded while her victim was pilloried.
The common thread...
These women are so proud of themselves they will brag openly of their acts whether minor or major and our culture not only tolerates it but sometimes joins in.
May 8th, 2008 at 6:58 am
When is America going to fess up ad declare an important new holiday to honor so many millions of American mothers who are of a special new type? And for these "mothers", the only way to honor them is with:
National Sperm-Trappers Day
I mean, we have veterans day and memorial day to honor men who have bravely served their country.
What about women who have bravely ensnared a man-slave through deft exploitation of their modern right to turn a child into a cash crop at an American family court, and in the process, create employment for loads of otherwise unemployable lawyers, judges, and countless faux "experts"?
These women should be honored!
They are helping GDP!
Yes, there is no other way but to do the right thing and push Congress to declare a proper holiday to acknowledge the contribution of these brave women.
National Sperm-Trappers Day!
May 8th, 2008 at 8:34 am
Skank Eckler should be in prison for her heinous act! Just goes to show why not to get involved with Western women. The militant feminists say "If it has tires or testicles, it's going to give you trouble." I say "If it has tires or t1ts, you're better off with an Asian import."
May 8th, 2008 at 8:43 am
Anonynous Pamphleteer,
Great one! NST Day!!!!! LOL
A tradition of this holiday should include the "mother" having to put in a good 8 hours of hard work and then turn the money earned over to the father to use as he wishes, say a day of golf and fun!
May 8th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Much Mother's Day merchandising going on in Australia. A block from my work is "Chemist Warehouse", a national chain of pharmacists. Plastered all over their shopfront are A3 sized posters showing a range of Mothers Day gift ideas. The big surprise is the bottom quarter of each poster which is a section headed "Don't Forget Dad". Regardless of their obvious marketing angle they have received my warmest verbal appreciation and their head office will be receiving email.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Daniel says: "take it as it is: a gift. You say thank you and you be goddamned happy you got anything at all, much less had anyone around you that cared enough to remember."
PK responds: It's funny that this last wedding anniversary, my wife and I BOTH forgot it (despite us choosing a date with an easy sequence to remember: 2004/03/21) We were horrifically busy having gone on a vacation a week earlier plus her having mid terms.
I remembered it two days later and reminded her and we both had a laugh. Sometimes, we're just too busy with our lives to remember the place markers but that's the good news: we have our lives together. I don't wait for anniversaries. I take her out every month or so for something fun whether we need to or not.
I like holidays and all but if someone acts like a jerk over them, I'd rather not bother. Some of my most difficult memories are of holidays gone wrong.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Male Guilt
Stillsober34 says: "You are correct, women like this DO make the rest of them look bad. In exactly the same way, a very small percentage of men make the rest of US look bad."
PK responds: I don't buy this argument because the things men are blamed as a group for by the acts of a few bad men are universally loathed by society, including men. NONE of the men here are wife beaters or rapists and all of us would agree that these men should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. On the other hand, women who behave badly are encouraged to do so. In addition, even when men do a lot of policing and clean up their act such as on the rape issue, feminism just sets the bar up higher and makes rape into a crime if the man sleeps with a drunk woman, for example.
That logic just seems like a way to get yanked around. It's all your fault for someone treating you like trash if you're not perfect. We don't need to have a perfectly black and white worldview to be able to make judgement calls. I can speed down the freeway and paint my mailbox red (despite the local housing association disagreeing with it) and still criticize awful behavior when I see it.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
I'm really tired of all the whining and complaining. Men and women both can be jerks equally as bad. Everyone seems to be so focused on the money - paying too much child support/not getting enough child support, etc. What about the kids here? THEY didn't chose to have their lives turned upside down. THEY are the ones who have to flip-flop between two different houses and adapt to two different ways of life while their parents get to stay in their same homes. THEY are the ones who suffer because their parents are too full of pride, self-centeredness, resentment to put their feelings aside to make life pleasant for their children. THEY are the ones who still love both parents and are stuck in the middle. THEY are the ones who will grow up resenting their parents for not being able to get along. The children don't care about the child support or who should be paying for what. They just want to be loved and taken care of.
Life is not fair, people, and it never will be.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
What a whore,no,strike that,at least with a whore you know the cost upfront and have the option to walk away.The truly sad thing is that with this kind of parental example the daughter will surely turn out just as bad but in 20 years when she is grown the feminists game will be up and no man will allow himself to be played like this thus ensuring a lonely life for herself.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
PK responds: I don't buy this argument because the things men are blamed as a group for by the acts of a few bad men are universally loathed by society, including men. NONE of the men here are wife beaters or rapists and all of us would agree that these men should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. On the other hand, women who behave badly are encouraged to do so. In addition, even when men do a lot of policing and clean up their act such as on the rape issue, feminism just sets the bar up higher and makes rape into a crime if the man sleeps with a drunk woman, for example.
SS34 - PK, did you read the rest of the comment? -
Unfortunately for men on the other hand, large entrenched, decades old feminist organizations work full time to not only make all men look bad, but force governments (including chivalrous men who are oblivious to current reality) to pass laws that put good men in jail and force them into poverty.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
[quote]Jason said: "I disagree... in this situation he had a very viable option to even the playing field... to let the mother know that he was willing to help her be appreciated for being a good mother if and only if she reciprocated when his special day came around. If she wasn't willing, then she shouldn't expect anything either.
You said yourself that we don't know a lot of the details, but then you are concluding that the mother in question is looking to strong arm him with the threat "do this or I'll bad mouth you to our daughter"... those two positions are mutually exclusive.
Either we know the details or we do not... if we don't know the details, then we can't conclude anything about what would happen if he just said no.[/quote]
First off, I didn't say anything about "do this or I'll bad mouth you to our daughter." All I said was that promoting this kind of entitlement, and promoting the method she outlines in the story above in order to satisfy it, is disgusting.
Printing an article that says she deserves the things she outlines in the article is irrespective of the father's behavior. As for her intentions with the email, I again refer to the title of the article which contains the phrase "Twist your Ex's Arm" to show that the author's aim (at least as presented in the article) was to strongarm her ex into a gift.
Even if the father was in on it from the beginning, the presentation of the article promotes being underhanded to your ex to get something you don't deserve.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Steve K,
I am not looking to defend this particular women in terms of being selfish or having a sense of entitlement.
However, at the same time there is a distinct difference between trying to satisfy ones selfish desires through fraud and deception versus trying to satisfy them via guilt or verbal coercion.
When you say someone is being "underhanded" it usually refers to the former rather than the latter.
You might as well say that the homeless who beg for money in the streets are being "underhanded" because they are looking to get something they don't necessarily deserve.
But I wouldn't classify it in that way... asking for something without deciet doesn't make you underhanded simply because no one is being tricked (which incidentally is what many here are asserting about the situation).
I don't believe anyone here is being tricked... but that doesn't make this woman a selfless person, I'd still classify her as being extremely self centered and selfish.
This guy knows what the score is and just like I am sure he feels comfortable not giving pan handlers his pocket change, he could easily select to give her absolutely nothing. The difference here of course is that she probably makes him feel more guilty about not giving her something... but that is very different than her setting up some sort of elaborate ruse to get what she wants.
Every man who has ever interacted with women knows that they are apt to flutter their eyes, get all sweet, put on the charm etc... when there is something that they want... that doesn't make such actions underhanded, it just makes them manipulative. If a guy has a strong enough will he learns to just say no.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
I even remind my daughter's father that on her birthday I should also get something, for the fact that I gave birth,' Ms. Craft says.
"'Her dad knows to make me cards, at the very least, on behalf of our daughter,' says Ms. Craft, adding, 'I've never had a bad Mother's Day being a single mom.'"
Huh? Her ex owes her a Mother's Day gift?
No, Her ex 'owes' her a gift on THEIR DAUGHTERS birthday (along with mothers day gifts) because she "gave birth". Mothers day comes but twice a year. Seriously though, the scope of this article is so limited we can't possibly, logically, assume that she would think that she is entitled to gifts and recognition ONLY twice a year. She doesn't believe her daughters special day should belong to her daughter. How deserving of even a M-day gift could she be when she can't even see her daughter's birthday as a day for her daughter to be the person of honour.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
This man could very easily have responded to his "daughter's" e-mail by saying something like this - "It doesn't matter how much something costs when it comes from the heart. I'm sure Mommy would be very happy if you made her a pretty picture or played a game with her." He actually enabled the mother to behave this way by giving in and sending the money.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Can 4 year olds even type?
Danny Says: May 7th, 2008 at 10:57 am
It's a little silly to think that a four year old can type but I'm willing to believe that the four year old wanted to talk to her dad so she had the mom type for her.
*** " 'Hi Daddy,' I typed, as my daughter was fast asleep."
Demonspawn Says: May 7th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Nah, my daughter was typing by mid-4.
*** "exhausted." is a big word for a four year old.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Okay, I've paid for gifts to be presented to their mother from the kids. My wife has done the same for fathers day. Only because they are so young is this acceptable. She's not my ex. If you like such privileges don't be single - That's something couples CHOOSE to do for each other and their kids who feel special presenting something a little bigger then they could on their own. It's not necessary. It's not required. This is something understood by both parent and child. To teach otherwise is to diminish the value of the real gift, the one usually homemade. Imagine a four year old to embarrassed to give a parent a hand made gift because he doesn't think it's good enough.
May 8th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
PCH,
I agree completely. She may be a selfish person who is only in it for herself... but he doesn't have to enable her either. I think if he responsed as you suggest that would have been brilliant. I personally wonder what he was thinking when he decided to send her to the spa.
May 9th, 2008 at 7:42 am
If I were the Ex...
"Dear Daughter: Please don't worry about the fact that you only have143 pennies in your piggy bank. Real mothers - good mothers - know that the best gifts come from the heart.
I'm sure your mom will be thrilled with a handmade card or a drawing. Maybe you could sing her a song.
Good moms certainly don't need to be sent to an expensive spa by their four year old child.
Love, Dad"
May 9th, 2008 at 9:30 am
For what it's worth...when I was a kid my parents always gave 'gift money' to me and my brother, ever after the divorce. This was for mother's/father's day, as well as birthdays and holidays. It was never a pressured sort of thing, it was just so we could go get something for our parents.
That article makes me sick, though, and is a corruption of the simple thoughtfulness my parents were showing.
May 9th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Jason,
The actual incident may not have been underhanded, but the title and the author's tone in the article make it seem as though she is promoting underhanded behavior.
May 9th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
"Will someone please think of the children?!?!" -- Reverend Lovejoy's wife, the Simpson's.
PCH says:" What about the kids here? THEY didn't chose to have their lives turned upside down. THEY are the ones who have to flip-flop between two different houses and adapt to two different ways of life while their parents get to stay in their same homes. THEY are the ones who suffer because their parents are too full of pride, self-centeredness, resentment to put their feelings aside to make life pleasant for their children. THEY are the ones who still love both parents and are stuck in the middle. THEY are the ones who will grow up resenting their parents for not being able to get along. The children don't care about the child support or who should be paying for what. They just want to be loved and taken care of. Life is not fair, people, and it never will be."
PK responds: If life isn't fair, PCH, then doesn't it behoove the children to learn that early on?
May 9th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
stillsober34 says: "SS34 - PK, did you read the rest of the comment? -
Unfortunately for men on the other hand, large entrenched, decades old feminist organizations work full time to not only make all men look bad, but force governments (including chivalrous men who are oblivious to current reality) to pass laws that put good men in jail and force them into poverty."
PK responds: I appreciate that point, but I was arguing against the notion of a standard demanding that all men be perfect and that we walk on eggshells while the women get a bad-girl free pass.
May 9th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Novae says: "For what it's worth...when I was a kid my parents always gave 'gift money' to me and my brother, ever after the divorce. This was for mother's/father's day, as well as birthdays and holidays. It was never a pressured sort of thing, it was just so we could go get something for our parents. "
PK responds: I have a friend who has a regular allowance for his daughter. The rule is that she gets to spend 1/3 on herself, 1/3 on a savings account, and 1/3 on "charity." Sometimes he takes her to a special store and she buys fish and she releases them back into the wild (which he says is a racket since they catch the fish and sell them again.)
Anyways, it's a great idea to get children used to managing and appreciating money even at a very early age (she was 5).
I want to do a similar thing with my future children but also add that they have to spend a share on a household expense such as electricity or gas.
May 9th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Ohio Revised Code 2913.01 Theft and fraud general definitions.
As used in this chapter, unless the context requires that a term be given a different meaning:
(A) “Deception” means knowingly deceiving another or causing another to be deceived by any false or misleading representation, by withholding information, by preventing another from acquiring information, or by any other conduct, act, or omission that creates, confirms, or perpetuates a false impression in another, including a false impression as to law, value, state of mind, or other objective or subjective fact.
(B) “Defraud” means to knowingly obtain, by deception, some benefit for oneself or another, or to knowingly cause, by deception, some detriment to another.
If my X pulled this, I would send her a homade card with this written in it and signed by my kids. LOL No I wouldn't it's a fun thought though.
May 9th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Good post, Lydia Lovric!
May 9th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
And for those looking for more reasons, and very sound ones, to dislike Mz. Eckler, clicking on Lydia's name above will get you to a great rant about why Ms Eckler's such a loser...
May 9th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
PK - I agree that children should learn early on that life is not fair so they will not be disillusioned as they get older. I constantly tell my kids that life is not fair.
May 9th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
If life is not fair, that suggests that we -- as a people -- do not want a fair society, right?
And I suppose there is the problem of defining what is "fair."
May 10th, 2008 at 9:21 am
That is so shameful. I, for the life of me, cannot figure out why many women are surprised when men don't take them seriously. I think hiding behind children is about as low as a person can get. Not to mention, the child can't even talk yet and this mother is already using the child as an "asset" for leverage with her ex. It's like blackmail. I think this is an early indicator that she might wind up being a full-fledged PAS mother.
May 10th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Thanks Andy S.
For those who don't want to read the entire column, here are the Coles Notes version as to why I have zero respect for Ms. Eckler
- She smoked while pregnant (and basically bragged about it)
- She CHOSE to have a C-section...it was NOT medically necessary...she was just "too posh to push"
- She wrote a column about how she was in love with some other guy, while she was pregnant with her fiance's kid
- She CHOSE not to breastfeed...didn't even bother to TRY...because she didn't want to be "tied down" to the baby.
- The woman put her kid in day-care AND had TWO nannies. You can barely call her a mother.
May 10th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Because the fathers mentioned in the article aren't demanding an annual pushpresent from the other parent, and aren't manipulating the other parents emotions to demand a gift. These women have made the self assessment that she's a saint.
She claims that she had to resort to underhanded manipulation to get him to do his duty to recognaize her selfless martyrdom. No mention of any reciprocity, just another "men behaving badly" story, saved by some woman who had to nag him to do the right thing.
We need so many more of these self appointed madonnas running the government and telling us how to live our lives. So many single moms are of the opinion that the world owes them because they got knocked up. No, lets apply the blame where it goes - so many of these women decided NOT to excercise their legal right to an abortion, and thus feel that the rest of the world owes them a subsidy since they're unable to care for a child without.
I'm a single custodial dad of two. Their mom hasn't done squat for father's day, christmas, birthdays, etc, except try to manipulate the kids later and claim that "she sent presents, but daddy sent them back." While I point out that she's never paid her child support, nor contributed anything to their care, other than perpetuating a legal case thats gone on for over 5 years now.
I'm reminded of the Chris Rock bit where he gets mad about people who have to brag that "they do right by their kids". You're SUPPOSED to take care of your kids. It's what everybody just does. What do you want, a cookie? (Ok, somewhat censored...)
These moms *chose* to be single moms. They decided to marginalize the other parent. Why should they expect the admiration and gratitude of the other parent?
May 10th, 2008 at 11:45 am
I just came up with a new business model!
I can start a gift registry for single mom entitlement princesses! And since we know how lazy and incompetent their ex husband/boyfriend/acquaintence rapists are, we'll just save them the effort and charge what they want to their ex's child support account at 18% interest!
May 13th, 2008 at 7:30 am
Does the mother thank us for making them a mother? We are the reason they are a mother. With out men the woman could not be a mother. On mothers day we should be thanked for making the female into a mother.
It takes 2 to "make" a child and it takes the same 2 to raise that child. When you dont follow the "takes 2 to raise a child" rule you get the problems we have in todays society.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Here's my letter to the editor:
Dear Editors:
Rebecca Eckler's May 6 column, "Get what you want this Mother's Day. Twist the ex's arm," missed the comic mark. Eckler falls short of achieving that over-the-top quality signifying the truly effective satire. That's a pity, because she sets the stage beautifully. But nowhere in the column do readers -- as we grow increasingly anxious about the absurd, pathetic and destructive deception the writer depicts -- receive the unmistakable, relief-filling clue that this is all a big joke, that Eckler never did any such thing and is only pulling our collective leg. Instead, Eckler mistakenly leaves us with the perception that we have actually been exposed to the workings of a pathologically infantile, self-centered mind of a particularly unpleasant cast. Not that there's anything wrong with writing about that subject, but it's not funny. Satire requires subtlety, for sure, but this time Eckler has been so subtle that many readers will likely believe she is not kidding, and is truly a fool unaccountably given a public platform to display her folly. Here's a thought, Rebecca: Next time, why not hit yourself in the face with a pie at the end?
Best,
Mark Henricks
May 13th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
The only thing a mother is "entitled to" on Mother's Day is the expression of the love of her children. If the child is not old enough to earn money for an elaborate gift, then whatever the child can do should be sufficient and cherished because it will be from the heart. Just as gifts from the heart are more cherished on Christmas than is a gift card, so should the "thought" of the gift on Mother's Day be the important point of the holiday. To advocate manipulating your ex because you feel "entitled to a day at the spa" is the epitome of narcissism and utterly despicable. If your significant other expresses their appreciation of what you do as a mother on that day, then they are worth having around. But don't expect someone with whom you have severed all intimate ties, to continue to express anything to you, except their opinion on the best interests of the child and maybe the time of day.
T.R.
May 13th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Roy says: "If life is not fair, that suggests that we -- as a people -- do not want a fair society, right?
And I suppose there is the problem of defining what is "fair.""
PK responds: It's funny, Roy, that much of the time when men complain about issues they have with the system feminists or their supporters will smugly declare "life isn't fair, get used to it!" or "stop whining!" and then turn around and declare that we need to make a big socialist/corporate system to help women deal with their "life/work balance issues".
It's an incredible case of sheer chutzpah. NOBODY is more cruel and uncaring than some "civil rights" special interests marxist towards those that are not in their special interest group. But what do I know? I'm just a bitter gunowner with a Bible...
May 14th, 2008 at 8:29 am
Writing emails to a former spouse for a mother's day gift is over the top. I wonder how many men write to regarding father's day gifts? Is everyone forgetting the gift is from the child? So until they are old enough to purchase a gift on their own Mom or Dad will have to settle for the handmade card, weeds disguised as a bouquet of flowers or some other small gesture. Mothers & Fathers day have both become so commercial....its supposed to be a day of doing something nice so Mom or Dad can take it easy and relax not necessarily the purchase of a gift.
While I do purchase my parents gifts some years they are small and inexpensive and I opt to spend time helping them around they home be it outside or inside. That help is what they appreciate more then a store bought gift.
As for my dearly beloved man in my life his children rarely acknowledge Father's day....unless its to remind him how much he failed to do for them. Men should be careful about purchasing items over $20.00 on behalf of their children, at any time; heaven forbid if you can afford to spend money in May for mother's day then you can certainly pay more each month in child support. Whats next? 4 year olds sending emails for Valentines Day?
May 14th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
WOW! I can't believe the nerve of that woman. One, The gift isn't what is important about Mother's Day, spending time with your child is. Two, I'm sure this woman doesn't reciprocate on Father's Day. Three, writing that e-mail(from the child) is the tackiest thing I've ever heard of.
On the other hand, I do think it is nice when parents of a small child help the child make/give the other parent something for Mother's/ Father's day, birthdays etc. until either the spouse is remarried or the child is old enough to do something on their own.
May 14th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
This woman had no need to do that and there is no defense for her.
On the other hand, buying your ex a gift for the child to present, whether on Mother's Day, Father's Day, Christmas or birthdays is a loving kind thing to do FOR YOUR CHILD. The child feels bad on these days if they have nothing to give their parents. My husband and I did this for our children.
On the other hand, my divorced sister also did this for her children on holidays so they would have gifts to give their father. Not for him, but for them. She even bought gifts for them to give their step mother. Did he reciprocate? No. They are lucky if THEY get a gift on Christmas, he usually tells them that that is why he pays child support, their mother is responsible for their Christmas presents. That's okay, because I take them Christmas and Mother's Day shopping for their Mama because I would hate to cause them the dissappointment of not being able to do something for their Mama.
So while it was wrong of her to ask for a gift, a child does want a gift to give and it does not need to be a great gift. You single parents would do well to remember, I have been around many children with broken families (foster and all) and they are very sad when they are unable to recognize either parent. So my question is... when not thinking to offer the child the money to buy a card, are you thinking of the child's feelings or your own?