Father Jailed Because His Adult Daughter Fails to Get Her GED
May 11th, 2008 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & Families
As anti-male as family courts are, this story is still a little hard to believe. The case is described in the story Man Jailed After Daughter Fails To Get GED (WCPO TV, 5/9/08). Ben, a reader, says:
"Summary:
1) Father was ordered to see to it that his daughter get her GED.
2) Daughter's problems in school were at a time when she lived with her mother.
3) Both mother and daughter agree that either one of them should go to jail before the father.
4) Father's current wife believes he might lose his job of 15 years for being in jail.
To their credit, both women in the story--the mother and the daughter (pictured)--accept responsibility for the problem, and say if anyone should be punished it's them, not the dad.
According to the story:
"A Fairfield man is in jail because his daughter hasn't gotten her General Equivalency Diploma (GED).
"A judge ordered the father to stay on top of his daughter's education months ago and when that order wasn't followed, Brian Gegner was sentenced to 180-days in the Butler County jail.
"The daughter, Brittany Gegner, says her father shouldn't be punished for her problems.
"Especially, she says because she's now 18, an adult.
"'It's ridiculously wrong,' said Brittany Gegner.
"'Of all the punishments they could have given him, to make him go to jail?,' she asked. 'I mean, probation – until I get my GED – would be reasonable, but to send him to jail? That's overboard.'
"Butler County Juvenile Court Judge David Niehaus ordered Gegner to jail for contributing to the delinquency of a minor by not following a court order which required Gegner to be sure his daughter got her GED.
"This comes after ongoing problems of Brittany skipping classes at Fairfield High School and then, Butler Tech.
"While Brian Gegner had custody of her, Brittany says it was while she lived with her mother that she was truant.
"'I'm about to be 19 and my Dad's being punished for something I did when I was 16,' she said.
"'It's like I should, if anybody should be punished for this,' said Brittany. 'I would way rather me go to jail than my Dad.'
"'They probably should have punished me if they were going to punish anybody,' said Brittany's mother Shana Roach. 'Because she did live with me at the time, but because he had the custody, that's why he's being punished.'
"'But I don't understand the punishment all together because she's going to school, she's been going for four months,' said Roach. 'The only thing that's holding her back is she can't pass her math test.'"
Read the full article here.
It still seems like there must be more to this than we're hearing. If Butler County Juvenile Court Judge David Niehaus wishes to respond with his side of the story, he may do so by emailing me at glenn@glennsacks.com. I will publish what he sends me.
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May 11th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
That story really adds insult to injury…
Today’s society does its best to prevent husbands/fathers from being the head of families. Now a judge is holding a non-husband accountable for performance of family members not even in his household.
This goes further than the quip “dammed if you do, and dammed if you don’t. This sucker is caught in a “don’t you dare do anything, and dammed if you don’t do something” situation.
This situation is not far from the theme society has been following for the past generation: hold men accountable for many things, yet give them virtually no authority to accomplish anything, and then give them no appreciation when they manage to accomplish something.
May 11th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
There is no excuse for this. Glenn...is there no way to do a similar outcry (Bad Dads), and put a stop to this lunacy? I'm practically beside myself here...
I cannot write well and succinctly at this minute...but if you can use your blog to help this Dad....I will produce a better response.
May 11th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
I'm not surprised at all since men are usually called down to the carpet on the "slightest" infraction.
If the genders were reversed how would this have played out, ya think?
If the mother had custody she would have received sympathy, but still the father whom had his daughter previously would have been jailed for contributing to the delinquency of a minor, right?
May 11th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
I wonder if the judge made the father get down on his knees and ask for forgiveness like the churches make men do?
'Our pastor makes us husbands get on our knees on Mother's Day and beg for forgiveness...husbands write all the things we've done wrong and give it to their wives'
May 11th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Remember, if someone has to be punished, it must be the man. He is the only real "adult" in the picture, after all. Is it fair to hold him responsible for something over which he no control? These days it is. We are FAR down the proverbial "slippery slope."
This is a throwback to the days when the "oppressive patriarch" was punished for the crimes of his family members under his "control."
May 11th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
if he had kept her in the house to do homework instead of running the streets, she would have called 911 and had him arrested for child abuse.
if he had refused custody, he would have been labeled a deadbeat dad.
the one and ONLY answer is to not get married and not make babies.
no brainer
May 11th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
donnie w Says:
"the one and ONLY answer is to not get married and not make babies."
I am not disagreeing with you… but it is truly sad when the rational thing to do is avoid the most fundamental things in life.
May 11th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
donnie w Says:
"the one and ONLY answer is to not get married and not make babies."
Then you miss out on "Daddy I love you as big as the sky", and "Your the best big daddy a little Kennybear like me could ask for". Hell of a trade.
May 11th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Kelly M. Bray Says "Then you miss out on 'Daddy I love you as big as the sky', and 'You're the best big daddy a little Kennybear like me could ask for'. Hell of a trade."
Kelly is right--having kids is the best thing in the world, despite the risks it creates for men. The solution isn't for men to not have kids--it's to reform the system to protect their right to be fathers to their kids.--GS
May 11th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
This entire ruling is absolutely ridiculous based upon the information available.
You cannot hold a parent responsible for the outcome of a childs performance, you can only hold them responsible for their actions as a parent.
What was he supposed to do?... force her to study?... then he would be brought up on child abuse charges for not letting her leave the house.
This poor guy seems to have been caught in a no win situation.
Furthermore, while it is highly unlikely that she can't pass the GRE... there are some people who might in fact be incapable of passing the test, and it is rather insane to punish a parent because their child isn't academically capable... many students have trouble with math for example.
What's next?... charges as a repeat offender if she doesn't get into a 4 year institution?
I think you are right Glenn when you say there is probably more to this, because the details presented here don't seem to add up.
May 11th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
there are some people who might in fact be incapable of passing the test, and it is rather insane to punish a parent because their child isn't academically capable... many students have trouble with math for example.
Precisely. The boys we have unofficially fostered over the years could usually get past math, but often not language skills, until they went for remedial training at our local adult ed...and even then, pulled the lowest possible (35+?) score to be granted their GED. This is NUTS!
May 11th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
articles like this made me glad I got a vasectomy and I'm only 23 with no kids and it cost $860, best investment ever. I don't have the patience for the system to fix itself in my lifetime.
May 11th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Jason beat me to it. He can make her study, and get her to the test but he can't take the damn thing for her.
Certainly curious as to the rest of the story and as to what other sorts of misandry this judge hands down. Why do I suspect that he has a record of 'toughness' on 'deadbeat dads.'
May 11th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
I am really confused...So does this mean that if a child does not graduate from high school their parents can be put in jail? I thought it was legal for a child to drop out of school after a certain age, normally around 16 or so...Or does that only apply to children of "intact" marriages? Oh, sorry I forget, children of intact marriages are NOT important, therefore, the government doesn't care if they quit school or fail, as long as those poor children of divorce get their diplomas?
What is this world coming to?
I wonder then, can my husband take his ex-wife to court and get a judgement against her, similar to this to ensure the crazy woman ensures her now 13 year old 6th grader passes her classes and stops failing in school? So far, nobody has cared since of course, mom is doing "the best she can..."
May 11th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Many say that it is not an option to miss out on being a parent simply because of the anti-men, husband, and father radical extremism currently in vogue. I commend you but be as cautious as possible as it appears next to nobody is hoping you will succeed. In fact, many are seemingly making it a life’s work to erect as many barriers to your success as a man, husband, and father as is possible.
DanH
May 11th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
I am so fired up about this. I posted a link to article on my blog and receiveda response from the sister of Brian Gegner that goes into even more detail that will really make you even more frustrated about this decision. Please visit this link: http://barryseward.com/2008/05/09/six-months-in-jail-because-18-year-old-daughter-didnt-get-ged.aspx
and read the comment by his sister and than use the link to email the Gov. and let him know what you think about this...maybe he has the common sense to fix this.
If the link doesn't work please visit www.BarrySeward.com and jsut scroll to the bottom.
Thank You,
Barry Seward
BarrySeward.com
May 11th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
@whatmess
"I am really confused...So does this mean that if a child does not graduate from high school their parents can be put in jail? "
No! Only the "fathers" need be in fear. Fear and intimidation are the soup du jour, as usual.
Remember, fathers aren't considered real "parents," we have no reproductive rights what-so-ever. We are only walking wallets, and the objects of scorn. Also, useful to be thrown in jail when situations like these happen.
May 11th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Thank You, Barry...will follow up.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:00 am
The comments from Brian Gegner 's sister state that the girl's mother is $15,000 behind in her child support obligations, but has not been prosecuted let alone jailed.
That's an interesting bit of misandry, eh?
When the dad loses his job for being in jail for six months, loses his income, that will be a huge social benefit, right?
For who?
The Family Court racket.
Blackrobes like this judge have become a truly insidious force in our culture.
It is dangerous to marry, and more and more men - who might actually want to be fathers - are just deciding to abandon the idea altogether.
So, why is there not a Million Women March to reform this broken system?
May 12th, 2008 at 12:26 am
@roy
"So, why is there not a Million Women March to reform this broken system?"
Basically, due to the fact so many of them are benefiting from the status quo. I don't feel like typing out the endless list of examples such as affirmative action, etc, etc....
They only see the "immediate" benefit not the long term consequences. Similar to smokers who are unfortunately focused on the here and now, not the eventual throat and lung cancers that follow later down the road.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:38 am
"So, why is there not a Million Women March to reform this broken system?"
I wonder why a million MEN aren't yet marching for reform.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:44 am
Sounds like he needs to appeal that ruling, have to be some ruling that a judge asks you to do something you can do, like hold your breath for 10 minutes.
May 12th, 2008 at 4:14 am
No, I think it's up to each man to decide what the best solution for him is. For many, probably most, men, the solution they will find to be the best is wait until AFTER the system is fixed before they have kids.
After all, men can wait. Women are the ones who are time-limited.
May 12th, 2008 at 7:20 am
This thing is wrong on 3 fronts for sure, and possibly 4.
1) The judge overstepped his authority.
2) Common sense went out the window. As stated in the story, most problems with absences came when she
lived with mom.
3) The Nanny state has parents on the run in general, afraid to confront their children.
4) (Possible) This girl may have mental health problems or a learning disability.
P.S. Much respect to the mom and daughter for taking some responsibility. However, I hope we can find
out more deep background. I'd like to know how each was portraying the other in front of the courts.
May 12th, 2008 at 7:26 am
"the one and ONLY answer is to not get married and not make babies."
I agree. Dont get married, dont have kids. Its a sucker deal for men, and it will continue to be so until a significant number of us simply refuse to do it. Only then will the societal forces that care only about women's needs look at the situation and say"Aw, gee, the girls cant find husbands, i guess we'll have to sweeten the deal."
May 12th, 2008 at 8:17 am
Glenn wrote: Kelly is right--having kids is the best thing in the world, despite the risks it creates for men. The solution isn't for men to not have kids--it's to reform the system to protect their right to be fathers to their kids.--GS
And until then... don't get married and have kids.
May 12th, 2008 at 9:25 am
Like my wife used to say when she had trouble teaching the kids at the local art college: "You can lead 'em to the books, but you can't make 'em think."
Am I still the only oen who dares suggest that the matriarchy seems to have eclipsed the patriarchy just a wee bit?
May 12th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Questions to our lawyer types:
1) How can what the judge is doing be legal?
Can one adult be put in jail for another adults bad behavior?
If so, how can that be changed?
2) If its illegal - what is the recourse for his victim and how can the judge be punished.
May 12th, 2008 at 10:57 am
This is why we should be able to sue judges. Judges should be required to carry malpractice insurance like a Dr. does. This is clearly a case of judicial malpractice and this guy should clearly be able to sue for damages.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Seriously I am confused and need to know if I am missing something . . .
At 16 she does not need to be in school
She was living with her mom and HE is being jailed?
What am I missing and why are not these judges removed from the bench for loosing all sense of reality?
b
bernies blogs
May 12th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Do any of the mens rights/fathers rights organizations work like the ACLU to help with cases like this?
May 12th, 2008 at 11:48 am
I think the Judge did the right thing; Obviously the whole story isn't being told, and acting as though a Jurist is wrong when you obviously don't have anywhere near as much information as he did when he made his ruling is just moronic. Judges attain their positions through balance, not bias. If the dad's being held responsible, he obviously is; perhaps the daughter lived with the mother, but the father had legal custody, or something similar. I'm a father, and I have two daughters with an ex-wife; she has primary placement, and if my daughters start blowing off school and their mother allows it, I won't. If I do, I hope to god a judge throws my ass in jail. It's called personal responsibilty.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Chad, your an idiot.
Oh sorry, I thought thats what you were calling me.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Your disconnect from reality is shockingly apparent.
May 12th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
In light of this article, I thoght this was appropriate to post...
Dad punished for scaring naked boyfriend with gun
By Jack Knarr
EAST WINDSOR — An ex-Marine dad who pulled out a handgun and flushed his daughter’s naked boyfriend out of her closet in January has been ordered to see a psychologist and take anger-management counseling.
Glen S. Johnston, 42, of Richardson Lane, must also do 100 hours of community service, be supervised by Mercer County courts for the next two years and stay away from the boy who was seeing his daughter during the Jan. 14 incident, according to Casey DeBlasio, spokeswoman for Mercer County Prosecutor Joseph Bocchini.
DeBlasio said that in a recent court hearing, Johnston was admitted into the pretrial intervention program for non-violent first-time offenders by Superior Court Judge Mitchel Ostrer.
If the father completes the program, the felony charge of aggravated assault with a firearm will be dismissed, DeBlasio said
Johnston, reached at home yesterday, had no comment. Nor would he say whether or not he still has his job at Fort Dix.
In January, he was working as an active-duty Army sergeant at Fort Dix, supporting mobilization of soldiers preparing to deploy overseas, according to Fort Dix Spokesman David Moore, who had no comment late yesterday.
On Jan. 14, Johnston returned home from work and spotted a bicycle parked out front. East Windsor police said he armed himself with a Crossman pellet gun — a replica of a .44 Magnum semi-automatic handgun — and stormed through the house, shouting, “If there’s anybody hiding, come out!”
In an interview later with The Trentonian, Johnston said he feared there was an intruder in his house and had no idea who it was or how old. He said his 16-year-old daughter told him no one was there.
But her 16-year-old boyfriend — pantless — was flushed out of the closet where he had been hiding by Johnston’s Labrador dog.
“I held him with a pellet gun, and the police came and got him,” Johnston told the newspaper. “I’m very confident that I will be cleared of all charges — very confident. I don’t think any other father would have acted differently coming home in the same situation.”
East Windsor Police Chief William Spain said then that Johnston verbally threatened the boy and held him at gunpoint until police arrived. Police charged him with aggravated assault with a firearm and turned the facts over to Bocchini, who decided to prosecute
May 12th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Judges are sort of the opposite of military members. In the military you protect and defend the constitution, but are not subject to be protected by it. Many of your regular citizen's "rights" are suspended while you are on active duty. Judges on the other hand have all the protections of the constitution without having to be responsible to it. They can do and say any damn thing they want and everyone else's rights be damned. The movie "Nothing but Trouble" reminds me of modern family court.
As for them being answerable to the people through elections...well, most people are blind to what sitting judges do wrong. I think that is intentional. "Judge" is supposed to be the epitiome of fairness. I think it scares people to think of them as corruptable people.
The judge said something (made a law only ONE person was accountable too) and it was disobeyed. Who is to say that the judge was wrong? Who reviews such things? We heard about this one, but does that mean things like this don't happen all the time and we DON"T hear about them? The order by the judge was completely at his discretion. The later punishment was also at his discretion. I thought the point of 3 branches of govt were for checks and balances to avoid this sort of situation?
This ranks right up there with men being imprisoned for support orders and the like. If the judge tells you to do it and you don't then you broke the law. Noone looks at the legality/sensibility of what the judge said in the first place.
Something is broken.
May 12th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Some Chad Meske person (troll) states - " have two daughters with an ex-wife; she has primary placement, and if my daughters start blowing off school and their mother allows it, I won't. If I do, I hope to god a judge throws my ass in jail."
My Chad, how chivalrous of you! If your ex-wife screws up, you want to be the one thrown in jail. Sounds like a Feminist dream – a man is always the one to blame.
Just as an aside hear, I’m getting the impression that you are not actually a man, but rather a woman claiming to be a man in order to advance this Feminist position. I may be wrong, but if I’m right, it sure explains a lot about your ill-thought post.
And, despite you idolization of the bench, judges are only human, and every bit as fallible as any other person. Some judges have demonstrated great biases and deference’s – cutting radically against both the spirit of law and all common sense.
This is clearly one such case. A man being held in contempt of court because his now adult daughter failed her GED exam!?!? He will likely loose his job, and his family will likely thus loose their home. What justice do you see being served hear?
A better remedy would have been to give him credit for getting his daughter to even take the exam. She now and adult, he has no ability to make her do anything. There’s no legal grounds for it, but it would be true justice if the mother were to be sent to jail for this.
But, your Feminist views no doubt preclude you from seeing women as responsible for any bad outcomes, Chad (or who ever you are).
May 12th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Umm... I was talking about me screwing up and getting sent to jail, not my ex-wife screwing up and then me getting sent to jail. Perhaps you should re-read my post, a little slower this time; pay attention to the line about personal responsibility. I don't get goaded into fights by people calling me a woman. Grow up.
May 12th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Chad,
Please explain why you feel it makes sense that a parent should be put in jail for their adult child's failure to get their GED, especially when failing to get your GED is in and of itself not a crime. Should we start throwing parents in jail for their kids' failures in school? I think that hurts the situation more than helps it. If you want to talk about personal responsibility, then why isn't the adult child responsible for her own failure?
May 12th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Fair questions get fair answers. I look at it this way; the guy isn't being jailed because his adult child didn't get her GED, he's being jailed because he failed to ensure that she attended school as a minor, thus putting her in a position where she has to obtain a GED, and leaving her with too little skill to do so. She wasn't always an adult, and I suspect mom didn't always have custody, either. Should we start throwing parents in jail for their kids' failures in school? You bet your ass. Kids would stop failing in school, then. Not holding parents responsible is why we have 13 year old gangbangers killing each other and all other manner of youth crime. The "it's not my fault" attitude is the problem here, as far as I'm concerned.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Chad Meske - "Umm... I was talking about me screwing up and getting sent to jail, not my ex-wife screwing up and then me getting sent to jail."
Well, Chad,
Your post was one of those silly "don't blame the judge - we don't know the whole story - judges are perfect - a man should be the one to go to jail" sort that is more common of Feminist thinking.
You threw in only the smallest hint of "personal responsibility as determinant of punishment" - to wit "... their mother allows it, I won't. If I do..."; so, I hardly think your post qualifies as herald for your belief in “personal responsibility” in this matter. If you did actually believe in “personal responsibility”, you’d have called for the adult daughter to receive punishment, or at least the mother with whom she was indeed living with (had you read a little slower, you might have seen that it was specifically spelled out that she did, saving you from having to guess, ”perhaps the daughter lived with the mother”) should be held at least as culpable.
Instead, you “pretend” that you wish it were you being punished to set an example for all bad dad’s that they better shape up lest they go to jail too. Right! I’m convinced of your sincerity.
Now, how about YOU go back and read the article, and perhaps the enhanced information that Barry Seward has linked for us from the man’s sister, and then you too can have a more complete understanding of what has transpired.
Then, I’d like to take another shot at explaining how a man going to jail, loosing his job and his family their home amounts to justice for a troubled young adult failing a GED test.
Go on, Chad, show your stuff! Justify it, if you can. Explain how the severe consequence dealt to this man and his family will make the situation better. Show us how this righteous judge did only what was just, and absolutely necessary. Come on, Chad, the balls in your court now.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Well, Chad, here's a direct quote from your original post:
"she has primary placement, and if my daughters start blowing off school and their mother allows it, I won't. If I do, I hope to god a judge throws my ass in jail. It's called personal responsibilty."
You clearly state in this that you should be held legally responsible for your ex-wife's irresponsibility. And your "grow up" insult is exactly the kind of shaming language that gender feminists use when they troll here.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Maybe if there were more male teachers, she would have made it through high school.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Justify it? Easy. Say tomorrow they start executing shoplifters in this country, on the spot. Too harsh a punishment? You bet your ass it is! But I guarantee you all shoplifting immediately ends.
"perhaps the daughter lived with the mother" wasn't a guess, it was a rhetorical statement of fact that you took out of context due to your failure to read it concomitant with the rest of the sentence.
Listen, guys, I'm not saying the judge is right here; I'm presenting an opposing argument that he could be. I'm also considering the possibility that the writer of the article was biased, because we've all seen bias in the media before. I know there's alot of goofball judges out there, and this guy may be one; or there may be alot more to this story than the writer tells you. I don't know, but I don't judge people(no pun intended) without being fully apprised of the facts, and I never assume I'm fully apprised of the facts because I read a news article.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Coiusin Dave:
"she has primary placement, and if my daughters start blowing off school and their mother allows it, I won't. If I do, I hope to god a judge throws my ass in jail. It's called personal responsibilty."
"You clearly state in this that you should be held legally responsible for your ex-wife's irresponsibility."
Actually, I clearly state:
"she has primary placement, and if my daughters start blowing off school and their mother allows it, I WON'T. IF I DO, I hope to god a judge throws my ass in jail. It's called personal responsibilty."
I clearly state in this that I should be held legally responsible for MY irresponsibility
May 12th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Chad Maske keeps digging - ” I look at it this way; the guy isn't being jailed because his adult child didn't get her GED, he's being jailed because he failed to ensure that she attended school as a minor…”
Chad, you remain woefully ignorant of the fact pertinent to this case. Consider this (from Barry Seward’s link):
And, more from Chad - ”Listen, guys, I'm not saying the judge is right here; I'm presenting an opposing argument that he could be.”
So, Chad, then why did you post this?
You do remember writing that, don’t you?
And, one last thing:
You also posted:
If you already knew it to be a fact, the correct English would have been, ”even though the daughter lived with the mother”. Your use of “perhaps” indicates that it was something that was in question, which, it was not.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
"I think the Judge did the right thing; Obviously the whole story isn't being told, and acting as though a Jurist is wrong when you obviously don't have anywhere near as much information as he did when he made his ruling is just moronic. "
You all are arguing with someone who started out calling you morons.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Chad says: Should we start throwing parents in jail for their kids' failures in school? You bet your ass. Kids would stop failing in school, then.
Do you really want to give every angst-ridden teen the power to have their parents thrown in jail on a whim by purposely failing a class? Teens do not have the same insight into the severity of the consequences of their actions the way most adults do. I can totally see a teen being pissed off that their parents didn't buy them a car. Off to jail!
May 12th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Chad Meske’s sad attempt at justifying the injustice done to Brian Gegner -
But, Chad,
According to your (and the judge’s) logic, it would be the shoplifters fathers who were to be executed as a deterent to thier children.
There’s an old saying which suggests, “if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging”.
Now, Chad, is Brittany Gegner more likely to pass the GED now that her fathers in jail for her failing to do so before?
Maybe she’ll be more motivated if he were facing execution?
May 12th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Mister-M Says:
May 12th, 2008 at 8:17 am
Glenn wrote: Kelly is right--having kids is the best thing in the world, despite the risks it creates for men. The solution isn't for men to not have kids--it's to reform the system to protect their right to be fathers to their kids.--GS
And until then... don't get married and have kids.
SB34: Or rather, don't get married and have kids with those who identify themselves as feminists. Actually, getting married isn't even a pre-requisite, since you can have kids with a woman, not get married, and still get the raw end of the deal anyway. Many young men are gun-shy from growing up in the current society whose values have determined that men are no longer valuable as parents, only as financial backups for custodial parents (read: moms). If we have a whole generation of young men that only have children with women who don't treat men as the enemy, the feminists (as I have said before) will edit themselves right out of the genepool. Unfortunately, (sigh) it seems as if the damage is almost irreversible. The farther out of balance any situation becomes, the greater the "correction" to put it back into balance. How extreme will things have to become before a serious correction is made to put things back into balance for men? Seek high ground men, a tsunami is coming...
May 12th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Chad Meske Says: May 12th, 2008 at 11:48 am '
"Judges attain their positions through balance, not bias. If the dad's being held responsible, he obviously is;"
You worry about assumption here while making the most dangerous and moronic one of all.
What a sweet land of make believe. Judges are always right and never have bias and a world view influence anything. Judge's work for the government. I'd like to believe they work for the tax payers but let's not kid ourselves the interest being served. Serve the government political needs and profitable desires and the government will keep you around. Then there is the tenured...
May 12th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Here are the local judicial rules governing the juvenile court that sentenced the man:
http://www.butlercountyohio.org/JuvenileJusticeCenter/documents/JuvenileRules6192007.pdf
Turn to page 12 (as your PDF reader defines pages). Read JR13, section D. It says:
Also note, that according to these rules, an appeal of any judgment must be submitted with 10 days. The story broke on the ninth; that probably means the clock started ticking before that. If we want to help this guy, we need to find local representation that can file such an appeal on his behalf.
Note also that David J. Niehaus, the judge who imposed this "sentence" (if a trial was even part of it), is top dog in the court. See the following organizational chart:
http://www.butlercountyohio.org/JuvenileJusticeCenter/pdf/organization_chart.pdf
The local superior court, or Niehaus himself, is the only court that can undo this judge's ruling.
Time is running out. Anybody know an Ohio attorney that might work on a volunteer basis for this case? A local advocate? Anyone?
May 12th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Lane adds - "Then there is the tenured..."
Speaking of which, if students who dare to disagree were to be thrown in jail (or, better yet, executed on the spot), then professors won't need to sue for the emotional distress of having been disagreed with.
Oops, my bad, I obviously meant to say the "the fathers of students who dare to disagree...jailed/executed".
May 12th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Chad Meske Says: May 12th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
"Listen, guys, I'm not saying the judge is right here; I'm presenting an opposing argument that he could be."
Chad Meske Says: May 12th, 2008 at 11:48 am
"I think the Judge did the right thing; Obviously the whole story isn't being told, and acting as though a Jurist is wrong when you obviously don't have anywhere near as much information as he did when he made his ruling is just moronic. Judges attain their positions through balance, not bias. If the dad's being held responsible, he obviously is;"
May 12th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Chad Meske reiterates - "she has primary placement, and if my daughters start blowing off school and their mother allows it, I WON'T. IF I DO, I hope to god a judge throws my ass in jail. It's called personal responsibilty."
Now, some of you non-custodial fathers help me understand this…
If the mother of your children was allowing them to blow-off school, wouldn’t you want the court to award YOU custody of them, rather than send you to jail for their mothers failures?
Chad’s reasoning that it would be better for a father to be thrown in jail to teach the kids (and the ex) a lesson, rather than (God forbid) being given custody of them so that he might be better able to supervise them, has gotten me all confused here.
I’d have though that a fathers “personal responsibility” for his children’s well being would motivate him to try to wrest control away from an incompetent ex – not sacrifice himself up to go to jail in the faint hope that the ex would thereby be motivated to do a better job of raising them.
I guess I’m just hopelessly confused.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
I think the father had primary custody and let the daughter move in with her mother at the daughters request.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
To John Dias:
Thanks for the info.
Any idea how to find out if the judge actually has the right to make such an order?
May 12th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Miles points out - "I think the father had primary custody and let the daughter move in with her mother at the daughters request."
Actually, this is emphatically stated by the father’s sister, and is not in question. And, even the girl’s mother has stated that the girl’s truancy occurred exclusively while she was living with her, and that the father should not be held responsible.
And, despite Chad Meske’s claims otherwise, the father DID see to it that she was register to return to school, just as the court ordered. But, after she turned 18, the judge was not content with the fathers efforts to do the right thing and follow court order, and suddenly moved the goal-posts. He ordered her OUT of school, and to take a GED exam instead. It was her failure, now as an adult, to pass that exam that landed her father in jail.
The mother, who was/is $15k in child support arrearages, faces no punishment for anything – not for failure to pay support, not for allowing her daughters truancy, not for allowing her daughter to fall behind so that she lack the skills to pass the GED, not for failing to encourage her daughter to take the upcoming GED test seriously – no Sir, only the father is held to be culpable.
Feminism at it’s best.
May 12th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Barking even by your country's standards ...over here family court judges would draw the line at locking someone up because their kid failed GCSEs .
May 12th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I spoke with the reporter who wrote the story. She confirmed that the father was jailed without a trial, on a six month sentence. She also told me that he does have an attorney, and the family is trying to get him out of jail so he can serve his "sentence" on house arrest, so at least he can go back to work. As far as the legality of the judge's action, I also inquired about that as well. An attorney who works with a leading family/fathers rights organization assured me that judges have authority to impose such sentences, which does not take away from the fact that the actual ruling is still outrageous.
There are moves going on behind the scene right now to elevate this issue in the public consciousness. Stay tuned. One encouraging note was that any organized fathers/mens groups that wish to submit a statement to the reporter who broke the story should do so, as she told me they would definitely be quoted in a follow-up story that she plans to write.
Her name is Deb Silverman:
http://www.wcpo.com/content/aboutus/bios/story.aspx?content_id=ad190908-ef77-42c6-b938-e476efefca33
May 12th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
John Dias, who deserves our deepest appreciation and our applause for ally getting things done, relates:
Excellent work, John! And very good news about this reporter's willingness to include comments from MRA's. Hopefully Glenn, excellent spokesperson that he is, will jump right on this one.
Again, John, hats off to you for taking the time and effort to chase this one down.
May 12th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Things are heating up. The California Alliance for Families and Children just announced a press release about this matter on its Web site:
http://www.cafcusa.org/news/2008/05/judge-orders-man-to-jail-after-adult.html
They have called for other like-minded groups and individuals to join in a national protest. I think it's time to gear up and organize for action.
May 12th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Mr. John Dias......OUTSTANDING! This is a very important issue. Thanks for the information!
John Dias writes:
"They have called for other like-minded groups and individuals to join in a national protest. I think it's time to gear up and organize for action."
I couldn't agree more! Count me in!
Also, referring back to a previous post by John Dias.. although the story broke on the 9th...he was incarcerated on the 7th according to the County Jail website. The clock has ticked a little longer.
Has there been any response from the judge yet? Or is it one of those "I can't comment on a current case" situations?
Barry Seward
BarrySeward.com
May 12th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Chad blithered...
“I think the Judge did the right thing; Obviously the whole story isn't being told, and acting as though a Jurist is wrong when you obviously don't have anywhere near as much information as he did when he made his ruling is just moronic.”
Why is it “obvious” that the whole story isn’t being told? If you know something we don’t, please tell us.
“Judges attain their positions through balance, not bias.”
Even if this is true for judges as a class, it may not be true for this particular jackass.
“If the dad's being held responsible, he obviously is;”
Obviously, because no one is ever held responsible for something they didn’t do- all those guys cleared by the Innocence Project for example, they were held responsible so they obviously were, even if it was someone else’s DNA.
“I'm a father,”
Oh, great, the DNA is out of the bottle.
“ and I have two daughters with an ex-wife; she has primary placement, and if my daughters start blowing off school and their mother allows it, I won't. If I do, I hope to god a judge throws my ass in jail.”
I agree-I also hope he throws your ass in jail.
“It's called personal responsibility.”
No, its called asinine self-hatred.
“Umm... I was talking about me screwing up and getting sent to jail, not my ex-wife screwing up and then me getting sent to jail”
If so, shouldn’t you have written “...throws both our asses in jail?”
“I look at it this way; the guy isn't being jailed because his adult child didn't get her GED, he's being jailed because he failed to ensure that she attended school as a minor,”
If so then why isn’t the mother being jailed for failing to do the same , especially given that at the time she was the one with custody?
“Should we start throwing parents in jail for their kids' failures in school? You bet your ass.”
Don’t be stupid, with an educational system as bad as the U.S’s you’d all be in jail.
“Kids would stop failing in school, then.”
This does not follow- if your kid is a dullard you can’t give him another twenty I.Q points just for fear of going to jail. Nor can you give him better teachers.
“Not holding parents responsible is why we have 13 year old gangbangers killing each other and all other manner of youth crime.”
Now there’s a leap- from bad school performance to murder. It’s irrelevant to the argument, but if we get riled up enough it may stop us from thinking clearly enough to spot all your bull.
“The "it's not my fault" attitude is the problem here, as far as I'm concerned.”
There’s nothing wrong with the “its not my fault attitude” when it, indeed, is not your fault.
“Say tomorrow they start executing shoplifters in this country, on the spot. Too harsh a punishment? You bet your ass it is! But I guarantee you all shoplifting immediately ends”
So now you’re suggesting we should shoot the guy because his daughter did badly in school? And ive got news for you, they execute people for murder and murder still happens.
“Listen, guys, I'm not saying the judge is right here; I'm presenting an opposing argument that he could be.”
What you actually said was…
“I think the Judge did the right thing” and
“If the dad's being held responsible, he obviously is.”
The first states outright that you do indeed think he did the right thing, and the second implies it, after all if dad is responsible and is being held to be so, then the judge, as you put it,“did the right thing.”
“I don't judge people(no pun intended) without being fully apprised of the facts, and I never assume I'm fully apprised of the facts because I read a news article.”
Yet by saying the judge was right you judged the defendant to be a wrong-doer. They cant both be right when one says “I’m innocent” and the other says “You’re guilty”. Also, given that we rarely have first hand experience of the actions of people in the media then I suppose you don’t pass judgment on anyone since you can never truly assume that you are indeed “fully:apprised of the facts”.
Unless of course, its suits you.
May 12th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
I concede, guys. I was wrong.
May 12th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Chad, I'm glad you conceded. I was getting ready to give you a brand new, 2008 model rectum.
Can you imagine if some judge had tried this crap back in the 1770s? What would have happened then? This isn't a call to action at all...but how much longer are we going to take this tyranny? How much longer will we let people in black robes decide they know what is best for our children? How much longer will we let "the village" raise our children because we "aren't in their best interests"?
May 12th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Here is the latest by WCPO.
http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=dde7e572-d60d-4f08-bf3e-5445f0175e48
Not much here except that a hearing is scheduled for Friday and he wants the judge to reconsider.
I still think its important for as many people to email the Gov as possible... If the Gov. doesn't take public action maybe at least some back door phone calls might be made...What do you think?
The link I posted in an earlier post to my little blog has a link to the Gov's office to make it easy.
Barry Seward
BarrySeward.com
May 12th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
Eric said;
"Can you imagine if some judge had tried this crap back in the 1770s"
I can.
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness indeed...
May 12th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Sadly I must confess that I am from Columbus, Ohio. I don't know any lawyers that would do anything for free. Fathers4Justice is big here though. I'm sure they are going to be all over this. The best I can honestly offer is a link to the governers website. http://www.governor.ohio.gov/ I will be e-mailing him but this state hates men and fathers so I don't expect much. Perhaps if we all e-mail him it could make a difference. Hint: Claim to be a Ohio voter. God I hate Ohio!
May 12th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Barry Seward - "I still think its important for as many people to email the Gov as possible."
Thanks to the link you provided earlier, I sent my opinions along to the governor of Ohio. Not sure the voice of a Coloradoan (along with several other people I convinced to go ahead and email as well) will carry much weight, but perhaps the influx of communications regard the case will catch there (State gov) attention.
I'm not sure how else to take direct action right now, but I did want to thank you for the link you posted on your site.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Opps, I guess I missed a earlier post. Oh well, at least theres a extra link.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Dad of 4 - "Opps, I guess I missed a earlier post."
Actually, Barry posted the link to the Ohio Gov's office on his site, and a link to his site here. It's good for you to post the direct link here as well in case others didn't know about Barry's site.
May 13th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Dad of 4 and Slwerner....Absolutely....I think the Gov's link should be posted everywhere. (I'm not sure if my Washington state voice will be heard loudly either) but I figure that if enough people send a note ...the Gov can't help but to notice. As an optimist I think, at the least, we can at least create some good awareness.
Not counting those that sent an email here I know of at least a couple dozen people that have told me they sent or will send a note. Hmm, I wonder how many people we can get to send an email?
The comment about a Judge doing this in 1770...makes you think how times have changed and how our civil liberties seem to continuously erode. I'm tired of it. Keep up the great work Glenn, our rights should be a right..not a fight.
I couldn't stop thinking about this story so my post today was about what everybody here is thinking. I also posted the link to this blog and a couple others as well as the information about The California Alliance for Families and Children that John Dias gave to us earlier. Thanks again John.
If you want to view it it's at http://barryseward.com/2008/05/12/follow-up-on-father-who-is-jailed-because-adult-daughter-failed-ged.aspx
Curious, How many people here sent an email to the GOV?
May 13th, 2008 at 4:37 am
For the Land of the FREEEEEEEE!!! And the home of the SLAAAAAAAVVVe!!
May 13th, 2008 at 5:39 am
Now this goes to shows how much the family courts hate fathers. How is it a father is being sent to fail for something he has no control over? The minute his daughter turned 18 she could do what she wants and he can't do anything about it. She has every right to say I don't care about school and you can't doing anything about it. She's now an adult and he is going to jail, this is outright crazy.
My question to the judge is why was this not brought up prior to the daughter turning 18. Why now that she is about to turn 19 and is an adult, is her father being held resposible for her actions?
May 13th, 2008 at 6:31 am
This story is very interesting. If the father can be jailed for daughter not performing in school.... my ex daughter in law can be jailed because the 3 children my son and her had failed a grade in school. The reason the 3 children failed is she didnt do her job as a mother or wife. I will send this to the onesided piece of trash judge in our county. See if he will even respond.
You all know the courts are fair and equal. NOT
May 13th, 2008 at 6:32 am
donnie w Says:
"the one and ONLY answer is to not get married and not make babies."
Of course that was said in jest but it does seem that we are headed that way. When I talk to young people of marrying age they say "" why get married"" . Since the family unit has been good not only for the mental aspects but also for the economic growth of this country. If young people don't get married and have children we have a dying population and society. The same thing that has already happened in western Europe.
This story is just legal madness, madness that brings down our society.
This is not the 1930's,40's,50's,60's when some men just abandon their familys, but it seems like the old judges still think that and apply a law that they make up as they go along.
May 13th, 2008 at 8:35 am
WOW! Civil law at it's finest. I say the gentleman gets out of jail and does a background on the judge. Chances are good he'll find something. Then put that in the media.
The civll law situation concerning dads has gotten out of hand. It's got to be corrected.
We had a hispanic man loose custody in Omaha because a judge didn't like that he spoke spanish to his daughter. What a line of S*&t.
May 13th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Patriarchy is dominant during civilizations slow upward climb.
And matriarchy sees over society's slow decay and decline
what great civilization of the past didn't disintegrate ffom within as much as from without
patriarchy tries to raise its head within the matriarchy as matriarchy is not wholly absent from the great rise
there is little black and white, but mostly shades of grey
infrastructure isn't glamorous
the civllization that comes along after the previous one's slow death,
is eager to erase all traces of the matriarchy that led to the last civilization decline
May 13th, 2008 at 10:02 am
So when will we be putting our custodial Moms in jail, for instance, my boyfriend's ex-wife whose children are failing academically because she admits to not spending time with them on their school work due to HER outside interests? Oh yeah and she is employed as a CHILD PROTECTIVE/FOSTER CARE worker!
May 13th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Even though I don't agree what the judge did it seems to me a parent must make the NEWS to get recognized in any group Right Glen ?? That means you Glen
May 13th, 2008 at 10:24 am
For an eye-opener, research the legal history of "jury nullification"
A very good question indeed. People should not do thing which are not in their overall self-interests. What is in marriage for men? Honestly, were it not for a good chance (albeit never realized) of my GF or I (re-)joining the military, an institution where marriage has real tangible benifits, why reason is there to consider marriage? In what situations do the pros outweigh the cons?
May 13th, 2008 at 11:11 am
So much of the time the child is handed willingly over to the Dad only after they've been totally messed up by Mom. Dad's just a stand-by parent with no rights, until the day comes when the system gets invoved when they're not attending school are are in legal trouble.
Dad then miraculously is suppose to fix everything because, after all, the problems are all HIS fault because he wasn't there all the time for his child- because Mom and the system wouldn't let him be!
May 13th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
This story exists because we have failed to answer the question: "who's going to punish the judge?"
May 13th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
This is another case of how families are shredded by the Family Court system. To me, what stands out are the three years that this case has progressed. Was the judge negligent in failing to order a PINS evaluation (people in need of supervision) as they have in NYS? If the young woman has a learning disability as suggested by another blogger wouldn't the school district have some obligation in this matter as well? Hopefully clearer minds will overrule this judge's order, but this issue does have a bright spot: It is bringing national attention to family court dysfunction.
May 13th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
The only reason I see is that at some point you may be unable to make decisions for yourself from infirmity due to age or illness. If you have no other family you would need someone to act in your best interests. The primary reason I support same-sex marriage. A spouse has much more authority to act than friends or aquaintances and for those estranged from their family it would seem especially important.
May 13th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
You can do the same by having a living will, and do so without all the con's of the marriage contract (I had one before my first marriage).
In all honesty, 90% of what you "gain" by marriage can be accomplished by other legal documents. Is that 10% worth the cons? In my case, the risk/reward ratio was in my favor. Most people I know have never even considered it.
May 13th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Bob-CFLAP - "who's going to punish the judge?"
Bob,
I guessing you're asking this as a rhetorical question. In most states, at the county level, it will come down to a vote to retain him or not at the end of his current term (as state bar associations are notoriously lax and permissive with judges). Most judges would prefer to stay out of the news so as to NOT have any name recognition to work against them in th evoting booth.
However, some judges suffer from a God-complex, and believe that they can do no wrong, have been give the power of "divination", and consider themselves to be above reproach. They believe that the voters won't bother to vote them out (unfortunately, they are often proven correct in their assumptions).\
Or, a senior Judge, or one who is planning to retire may feel that they can simply do what ever the ____ they want to, as no one can "touch" them. I don't know enough about the judge in this case to offer any real insight, but perhaps some of our number who are better connect to this case could provide such insight.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
seems true to the general direction of the courts in this day of political correct notions that remove logic and keep pushing all the accountability on men when there is a shared aspect. Although God's model has men as where the "buck stops" it is time to look for the actual causes in the family break down. Another part of this is the constitutional issue at it's core. Is government to dictate that we even have an education? Where is that coming from? Many folks I know are very productive outside the realm of a degree. Does this set precedence and mean that I can litigate against my Dad because I failed high school? Huh! That is certainly is outside the realm of constitutionality ~Gary
May 13th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Demonspawn - "In my case, the risk/reward ratio was in my favor."
Indeed, Demonspawn,
A few of us got pretty damned lucky in finding good women to be our wives (not having even known what risk/reward to weigh). I know I sure did. But, the blind luck I happened into is something that simply cannot be counted on happening for men today - and never, ever should counted on. Men need to have their eyes wide open, or they risk being seriously screwed over.
Men must seriously weigh the pro's and con's in the light of observable outcomes. As it stands, I do not believe that I can recommend for my son to look to get married. I have little such apprehensions for my daughters (one already married), as they are well protected by the system that greatly disadvantages men. I certainly don’t want to see my son-in-law (nor any future addition) be screwed-over, but I do believe I’ve raised my daughters to love and respect men, and to eschew the feminist BS they’ve been drubbed with (they verbally communicate their dislike of modern Feminism quite often, thank you).
But, I do not believe I can trust that any of the girls I’ve met who were friends with my son are such stand-up individuals. They have all seemed to be only interested in their own interests. Just yesterday afternoon, I got home to find my son quite distressed. Seems he’s gotten his first taste of the true nature of today’s woman.
A girl he’d been playing “Mr. Nice Guy” to, and who he’d been doing all sorts of favors for and helping her through her stupid high school daily emotional crisis’s, introduced him to her new (bad boy) boyfriend – acting like he should/would be all excited for her.
He’s a bit devastated right now. I warned him, in a couple of weeks she’s going to be coming around bitching to him about what a jerk her BF is being to her – but how she’ll do “anything” to make him love her. I told him, ot to allow him to let her use him that way or he'll be getting the reputation as a doormat. We’ll see what transpires.
I’m afraid that in the long run, he’s looking at either playing the "bad boy", or enduring repeat performance from his female “friends”.
The whole modern situation really pisses me off. I love the institution of marriage; or rather, what it once was. But, today, women entering adulthood have been so deeply brainwashed into the feminist entitlement/male chivalry ideals that very few are going to make reliable spouses. Sad, but true.
Sorry to rant. Demonspawn’s post just “got me started” again.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
In this case, the judge should be fired. Too many rights are being taken away from citizens.
I have been happily married for 10 years, and I have two daughters. I am a stay at home mother, and my husband goes to work everyday. We LIKE it that way, so I can spend time with the children.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Chad Meske Says:
May 12th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Fair questions get fair answers. I look at it this way; the guy isn't being jailed because his adult child didn't get her GED, he's being jailed because he failed to ensure that she attended school as a minor, thus putting her in a position where she has to obtain a GED, and leaving her with too little skill to do so. She wasn't always an adult, and I suspect mom didn't always have custody, either. Should we start throwing parents in jail for their kids' failures in school? You bet your ass. Kids would stop failing in school, then. Not holding parents responsible is why we have 13 year old gangbangers killing each other and all other manner of youth crime. The "it's not my fault" attitude is the problem here, as far as I'm concerned.
= - = - = - =
Chad I have a myriad of problems with your statement that maybe you could clarify for me, after all a blog is at best a difficult place to convey full thoughts.
At what point was she a minor 16?, 18? or maybe that should be extended until she is 21 or lowered to 14 depending on the state where you can be charged as an adult in a crime. THIS is my whole problem with this ruling by this judge.
At 16 the girl does not have to be in school. No harm no foul.
As far as your suspicions you do not know for sure so it is difficult at best to make any conjecture about that so I will negate it for argument sake.
Throwing some one in jail for some one else's problem is not only just a terrible practice, but unjust, immoral, and unethical, and if you cannot see that, I just do not know what to say to you. You or no one else in this world can make anyone do anything, period. This method of unjustice will unequivocally *not* make children stop failing in school. Again I do not understand what you do not understand about that. This *law* of yours sounds like a zero tolerance policy and the problem with these are a piece of paper does not understand mitigating circumstances.
As it stands now we hold parents responsible for children until they are 21. This not right. Your child can be out ouf your house at 18 but YOU are still responsible for many of the things that they do. What would you suggest as far making parents responsible? How about corporal punishment? Oooooooh yea, if you do that, it is against family court law and child protective service will be in your life at least 18 months and up until your youngest is 28.
So that is the other problem you are not allowed to discipline your children in today's climate, and you are not allow not to CATCH 22
So in reality it is not the parents fault, and I have first hand knowledge of parents with this hovering over them until their youngest *unborn* is 28 y.o. for thing as minor as the young ones snuck out whiled dad fell asleep on the living-room couch [swing-shift worker] and were playing outside not dressed appropriately.
b
bernies blogs
May 13th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Chad Meske has obviously never been the male target, i mean respondent in family court!
May 13th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
I too have warned my soon to be 21 year old son against marriage and breeding! Why my boyfriend takes home a whopping $140 a week after child support enforcement is done with him. Try living on THAT wage in NYS! The courts do not care one iota if a MAN has enough to live on after they take out the child support. Don't let those "percentages" fool you either. After you pay a base percentage of your salary (for those men earning under $40K a year this is a KILLER especially if you have gone past the "two child threshold" as i like to call it) there are all sorts of EXTRAS that the bio mom can tack on. Special tutoring, special daycare expenses, out of pocket expenses for practically everything and anything, In NYS CS can extend to "children" aged 25. I know this will be the case with my boyfriend! His kids will be 25 year old shiftless college drop outs (after he's paid for their "education" of course) playing video games and asking "Daddy" for rent and car insurance money!!
So how come a nice judge didn't go after the MOTHER in this case for back child support owed and throw HER in jail? Can you say DOUBLE STANDARD??
May 13th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Chad Meske Says:
May 12th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Justify it? Easy. Say tomorrow they start executing shoplifters in this country, on the spot. Too harsh a punishment? You bet your ass it is! But I guarantee you all shoplifting immediately ends.
- = - = - =
IT will NEVER stop all, be realistic and in this case you are assigning proper blame; with the shoplifter not the shoplifters parent(s). Your lack of a consistent argument is conspicuous.
b
bernies blogs
May 13th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Chad Meske Says:
May 12th, 2008 at 11:48 am
If the dad's being held responsible, he obviously is;
- = - = - = - =
That statement is moronic. Then all of those people released on DNA evidence were really guilty.
b
bernies blogs
May 13th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
All I can say is WOW! Unflipping believable. A guy going to jail because his daughter did not get her GED? What kind of moron is this judge. You may lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink if it doesn't want to. The same applies here, you can lead a child to knowledge, but you sure can't make them do anything they don't want to do, unless you want child services up your behind as if they don't have enough to do with their pathetic lives other than meddling in other people's business.
May 13th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
I have often said that there is absolutely no American justice for men. We are hounded by the Attorney General's of many States with the intention of the legislative arm of how terrible we are....the stories go on forever. But, the female portion of this is just as important and never even considered by the legislature or attorney generals.
Let me begin by saying that I, too, do not support men who donot pay their fair share of child rearing. However, the Attorney General and Legislature wants to talk about quality of life issues, but fail to see what single females do to their son's and daughters. Often times these children become the "significant others" for the single female and they do not become strong men or women, because the female cripples them for her emotional needs. Yet, is there any consideration for the psychology of these events that disable the children. NO!. The Legislatures needs to get the attorney general out of this business.
I have often told younger males to go outside this country to have children. Although, we have the children "best" interest at heart we have lost the family. Money is not a substitute for fathering. Giving women, head of household with the children ends up punishing the children psychologically. We simply donot see it.
Legislatures for the most part are googy two shoes-ers. It's a great sound bite to say look I got many males to pay the bills; however, how many are involved in raising the children. That's what we need to consider. It not just the money and we will pay the price.
An example of this is up in Dallas, look at the former District Attorney, 100% conviction rate, now many are being overturned and judical misconduct is forgone conclusion. The message is simple to men. DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN IN THE USA
May 13th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
I finally got my automated reply for emailing the Ohio Governor. Thought I'd share:
Hopefully, it took so long to recieve because their system has been swamped by complaints. Let's keep it up.
May 13th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Courtesy of Barry Sewards site, a link by which one can send a note to the Butlter County Juvenile Justice Centerhttp://www.butlercountyohio.org/juvenilejusticecenter/index.cfm?page=contact.
For those who choose to do so, you can even remain anonymous.
May 13th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Folks,
I am in a situtation similar to this one. Glenn Sacks provided me with a laywer to contact for help. I live in Austin, Texas.
Oh and the best part, the Texas AG's office is still collecting child support for my daughter even though she is 18+ and is now living with me full time. Also, the Texas AG is refusing me service as she is over 18. figure that one out.
Please help stop the injustice.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
First of all, the judges receive monetary value for each judgment that they hand down (try retirement fund).
Second, the real 13th Amendment states that no" Title of Nobility" (Esquire) is to hold any government office.
We have the Title of Nobilities holding office in all 3 branches of government. Attorneys in each branch causes there to be no branches in government. The BAR controls everything. Start voting attorneys out of office.
The US of A is a CORPORATION
Each state is a CORPORATION
We need to take back each CORPORATION and put each back as the "public servant" it was meant to be.
http://www.freedom-force.org/
May 14th, 2008 at 12:16 am
Another great example of how bias the court system is towards men.
She was living with her mother so why isn't the mother in jail instead of the father.
Too many women are getting away with illegal behavior and as for the Judge. He needs to be impeached, he definitely overstepped his power. That is just what it is. Judges have way too much power and can literally destroy a person becasue of very poor judgment on the part of the judge.
The girl is 18! How may others are out in this country without GED's or dipolmas for Hgh School. To report that judge to the Judicial Inquiray Board would be useless. They keep alll complaints confidential and the people reviewing the complaints are judges. So whats the purpose they protect each other.
He should have a civil suit against the judge when he finally gets out of jail. When a judge does someting like this that throws the amenisty for the judicial out and he can be sued.
May 14th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Stephen's plight - "...the Texas AG's office is still collecting child support for my daughter even though she is 18+ and is now living with me full time. Also, the Texas AG is refusing me service as she is over 18."
Why am I not surprised?
While I understand the pain and hardship of your struggle may make it difficult to discuss, if you would provide greater detail, it may well prove instructive for others.
Also, if the Texas AG office has a comments submission option on a web page, it would provide a way for some of us to express to them our opinions of their handling of your matter. I'm sure the AG's office would not like to see their mishandling of cases getting more publicity.
May 14th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Yeah-thats right the courts' never make a mistake.
This father can't be responsible for his daughters actions in any way shape or form. We as parent can only do so much to ensure our children are guided in the right path and when the child detours from our guided path we need to enforce discipline, of course when we do this we are now under the microscope as being a "bad parent" especially when the child is manipulative and the courts are so eager to believe the custodial parent and child.
I suppose we should hold this judge responsible and campaign to have this judge removed for not ridding society of the bad people in that community after all it is his/her responsibility as a judge.
What next are to to be punished for not enrolling our kids into the Harvard sorry didn't get that memo
Tony
May 14th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
They would have to build tens of thousands of new jail cells in Baltimore to house the parents who belong in jail because their children not only fail to get a basic education, but assault teachers, rape students, bring weapons to school, deal drugs, disrupt the classroom so that children who want to learn can't and cause mayhem where ever they go.
May 14th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
If there isn't SIGNIFICANTLY MORE to this story, then this judge is nothing but a petty, black robed lawyer tyrant... A legal terrorist and should be made into a poster child for the elimination of judicial immunity. In fact, someone should do some research on this judge by pulling ALL of his cases and see if this lawyer in a black robe shouldn't be removed from the bench for mental problems.
May 14th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
This goes beyond the boundaries of normalcy. This judge has a serious psychological problem. He's psychopathic and sociopathic. This judge needs to be evaluated as to his mental capacity. When a judge goes beyond the bounds of normalcy, he violates his oath of office to uphold and support the US Constitution and respective state constitution. This judge has committed felony official misconduct. Someone needs to file a petition for writ of habeas corpus for this guy in Ohio, and then file a petition for impeachment of this judge and send a copy to every legislator in Ohio, the press, and to the entire Supreme Court of Ohio, to have this judge removed for official misconduct, treason against the constitution, kidnapping, false arrest and false imprisonment.
May 14th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
My stepdaughter is learning disabled. We got custody of her when she was 17 1/2. We took her to GED prep class 5 days a week for 3 hours a day and it still took her 6 quarters to finally get her GED and that was with the state giving her twice as long to take each test because of her disabilities. I'm sure glad we weren't given a time limit to make sure she passed everything. I just don't understand this case at all. What was the Dad supposed to do to make sure she passed, take the tests for her? Even if he drove her to school everyday, he couldn't make her stay without facing assault or abuse charges. Even if he got her to stay in class, he can't make her PASS the tests.
May 15th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Hello all, I just wanted to remind everyone that tomorrow Brian Gegner will be back in front of Judge Niehaus asking for the judge to reconsider his decision for being jailed. It's not to late to email the Gov. Strickland of Ohio to share your thoughts and to join in with the California Alliance for Families and Children to protest this terrible decision.
To email the Governor: http://www.governor.ohio.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=448
The Judges Contact info:
BUTLER COUNTY
Juvenile Justice Center
Judge David J. Niehaus >>
Phone: 513-887-3318
Fax: 513-887-5592
I urge everyone to take a stand and do both. Please, stand up for Justice.
Barry Seward
BarrySeward.com
May 16th, 2008 at 8:19 am
OK everyone, F4J in Ohio is going to be there TODAY to protest as well as other days. Get with them through their website if you want to help by being there or helping with the costs since gas is killing us in bringing the trailer, costs for signs and etc.
May 16th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
We need to change the laws in this country so that abusive judges can be thrown in jail for making abusive decisions.
May 16th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
I am happy to hear that Brian Gegner will return home, however, the judge has still put his fate in the hands of his 18 year old daughter. This ruling still doesn't seem acceptable. All charges should be dropped...period.
Barry Seward
BarrySeward.com
May 16th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
The word punishment keeps getting used, what law did he break? None! This is a court order and contempt.
Never mind contempt needs to be willful. If this man has it in his power to guarantee a child gets a GED the nation could benefit from such magic. To jail him for what has a reasonable probability of failure is not being reasonable, it is saying of a 100 people that were to do the action 100 would succeed. Which does not take an Einstein to see just having the will is not the only factor, it is having the outcome completely within one's power.
These crimes by those pretender of justice need to be brought to a true court of law and tried for their crimes.
JT
May 16th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
RJL Says:
May 16th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
We need to change the laws in this country so that abusive judges can be thrown in jail for making abusive decisions.
-=-=-=-=-
Ya think!? (-;
b
May 16th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
PEOPLE EVERYWHERE should take the time to get the word out that these are BLACK ROBED LAWYER DEVILS! They are among the most vile and deranged, absolutely wicked maniacs there is! Why is it that so many Americans can see that the "lawyers" that are politicians are sick, and they have such contempt for them, but the lawyers that wear the black robes of power, who are among the sickest of all, seem to garner so much "respect!"
May 17th, 2008 at 12:24 am
John,
Under Ohio statutes, a finding of contempt doesn't require a"willful" disobedience. Willfully disobeying a court order is considered, "direct contempt." A Defendant who unintentionally violates a court order is said to be in, "indirect contempt."
For instance, if a Father was laid off and without income to pay his child support, he can be found guilty of indirect contempt. The penalty? He will most likely be physically arrested without being mirandized and incarcerated (without a trial and without legal representation) until he "purges" the contempt.
Contrary to popular belief, constitutional rights do not apply to civil defendants. They are not afforded the same legal protection as are criminal defendants. Sadly, the terrorists being held at Guantanamo Bay have more rights than civil defendants in American Family Courts. The "Family Courts" contemptuously disregard constitutional a defendants "rights", operate with impunity, and answer to no one.
If you are jailed for contempt as a civil defendant without anyone knowing, your problems have just begun. The criminal defendants will automatically be assigned a public "pretender" (aka defender) who will be in court representing them within 48 hours arguing for their release on bond.
The civil defendant who foolishly insists on their "right" to meet with an attorney will soon learn what it means to be under 24 hour lockdown.
He can be held indefintely
May 17th, 2008 at 1:42 am
Good people, do not believe for one moment that the state, and its judiciary, exists for your benefit. It exists purely for its own benefit, i.e. to garner power for itself and the people who control it; and it does so at your expense. Remember the state has no heart and no soul, which is why it can impassively crush anyone who stands in its way or fails to submit to it. It encourages the worst aspects of behaviour from its servants, like this judge. He has acted this way because he wants to remind Brian Gegner exactly who is boss. He has acted this way simply because he can - or thinks he can. And because the state rewards him for his actions.
The state and its servants do not care about you. They are particularly harsh on men and fathers because in men and fathers they see the most serious and dangerous challenge to their own authority and power. They want to gain control of children, but the fathers of those children are a serious stumbling block to their ambitions. That is why fathers have to be got out of the way, stripped of their rights and punished ruthlessly, whether they have done anything deserving of punishment or not (as in this case).
You are not looking at a rare aberration here, but a prime example of exactly how the system is intended to work. The next time a case like this hits the headlines - and there will be plenty more, just as there have been plenty already - don't scratch your heads wondering how such blatant injustice can possibly have occurred. Just remember what the system exists for, and why it has to hammer any threat to its power. Then its actions will make perfect sense. This system is corrupt and rotten to the core, and it is propped up by the worst kind of people who actually enjoy flexing their muscles and hurting others. People like this judge.
Glenn, you invited him to comment: "It still seems like there must be more to this than we're hearing. If Butler County Juvenile Court Judge David Niehaus wishes to respond with his side of the story, he may do so by emailing me at glenn@glennsacks.com. I will publish what he sends me."
I assume he has not taken up your offer. I could have told you he wouldn't. He has no case and no defence to his actions. He hides behind his black robes. And takes his paycheck.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
PaulP Says:
May 17th, 2008 at 1:42 am
Good people, do not believe for one moment that the state, and its judiciary, exists for your benefit. It exists purely for its own benefit
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I am utterly dismayed, dissatisfied, frustrated, letdown, disenchanted, disillusioned, blue, dejected, depressed, desolated, despondent, disconsolate, distressed, downhearted, dreary, gloomy, joyless, melancholy, oppressed, saddened, sorrowed, unhappy; alarmed, concerned, chagrined, are you trying to tell me that when the people from the government came to my house and said “DO NOT WORRY WE ARE FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND WE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU!” They lied to me?!?!?!?!?!?!
)-:
b
May 18th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Haven't had time to read all the posts, but based on the information available, this is a gross miscarriage of justice.
Adults complain that our young people are out of control and not taking responsibility for their actions - well, you don't have to look very far to see who is condoning this way of thinking, our very own court system and judges.
Insane... just simply insane. I hope Glenn can do something about this through his blog.
May 19th, 2008 at 3:11 am
Bernie Misiura Says:
May 17th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
PaulP Says:
May 17th, 2008 at 1:42 am
Good people, do not believe for one moment that the state, and its judiciary, exists for your benefit. It exists purely for its own benefit
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I am utterly dismayed, dissatisfied, frustrated, letdown, disenchanted, disillusioned, blue, dejected, depressed, desolated, despondent, disconsolate, distressed, downhearted, dreary, gloomy, joyless, melancholy, oppressed, saddened, sorrowed, unhappy; alarmed, concerned, chagrined, are you trying to tell me that when the people from the government came to my house and said “DO NOT WORRY WE ARE FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND WE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU!” They lied to me?!?!?!?!?!?!
Well Bernie, what does your experience teach you?
May 19th, 2008 at 4:12 am
LOL Paul
b
May 19th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Stop wasteing my tax dollars to lock up people for stoopid crap like this, This socitey is corrupt on money that a judge will even lock up your own grandma just to get a point across. If the judge wasnt so crooked who would of never wasted time on this issue, the case would of just been thrown out, but locking up people is a BIG BUSINESS and now a days judges are pressured to lock up as many as people as they can,if not the city will just fire and hire someone who will lock up any one over anything including your own grandma.!!!! Now a days you have to be rich and or connected in order not to be locked up or have a lawyer in the family in order not to get sent to jail...over small crap like this,,,,Jail is for people who do EVIl stuff not bull crap like this....!!!! thats why people who never brake the law go to jail get used to it then come out and do sometimes BAd stuff because jail is like a weekend retreat and is over used to much....because are laws are so Stoopid and corrupt in order to make jails and laws a BIg BUSINESS!!!!!
May 20th, 2008 at 2:17 am
I can sum it up in 6 words.
No Emolument, NOTWITHSTANDING and NO ATTAINDERS..
Now let me break it down for you!
No emoluments mean those kickbacks and block grants for stealing children are ILLEGAL!
Notwithstanding, means if any state constitution is in violation of the US constitution the whole thing is VOID. There is no such thing as a limit on your rights, and such numbers, codes and limits are again ILLEGAL!
Now NO ATTAINDERS, that is the biggest one of all...
A bill of attainder (also known as an act or writ of attainder) is an act of legislature declaring a person or group of persons guilty of some crime and punishing them without benefit of a trial. The United States Constitution forbids both the federal and state governments to enact bills of attainder, in Article 1, Sections 9 and 10, respectively.
As a parent you are charged with CHILD SUPPORT with out a JURY trial, the whole thing becomes ILLEGAL.
Which means that the ATTAINDER BY BLOOD is slavery without being duly convicted.
13th amendment
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
IF we do not start holding our public servants to the law and throwing the book at them we are doomed to be ruled by criminals who violate the law and watch and laugh as our children become illiterate!
May 20th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Judge Neihaus ought to be "dethroned" from the bench and disbarred for his Unconscionable abuse of judicial power!
May 20th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
> gHA Says:
> May 13th, 2008 at 11:11 am
> So much of the time the child is handed willingly over to the Dad only after they've been totally messed up by Mom.
Amen to that. My own kids are entering their teenage years. My 16-year-old daughter (a straight-A student while we were married) had now fallen to C's and D's, and my freshman son is in intensive therapy due to his inability to cope w/ high-school. All this a result of seven years of non-parenting by my ex. So, now she comes to me and says "I can't do anything with the kids. Maybe you can straighten them out." (even though I only see them every other weekend.)
So, now I have to worry about being thrown in jail if I fail to do so?
May 20th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
When do you think is a good time to start telling they are fired for abuse of power?
If you do not stand up for your rights who's going to stand up for the rights of your children?
PUBLIC SERVANT
YOU’RE FIRED!
Please be aware you are being recorded, as my servant you have already given me permission to record you and anything you say can and will be used against, both in your private capacity and in your public capacity.
Job Description:
Title: Civil Servant
All trials except for impeachment shall be by jury. You maybe impeached.
Duty: Uphold Constitution
Have never advocated for the overthrow of the constitution.
Have never taken any emoluments.
My pay is only as required by the constitution paid out of the United States Treasury. I swear I do not receive payment from any state, county or city.
I do not work for a Corporate State, City or County.
Must have never written attainders.
Must never have participated in a strike or assisted a strike against the Constitutional Form of Government.
If retired from military, my oath for such service is in good standing, and I have not withdrawn my oath. Must swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Must never have failed to prevent or to aid in preventing any deprivation of rights, under color of law, or any act of a conspiracy against the constitution.
Must never have forced a deprivation, under color of any State law, statute, ordinance, regulation, custom or usage, of any right, secured by the Constitution of the United States.
Must never have given any illegal alien aid & comfort.
If you refuse to initial this form, your refusal will be grounds to fire you on the spot.
You are summarily dismissed without benefit of any type. Your misconduct is a high misdemeanor and may be charged for treason.
You have sworn not to violate the Constitution of the United States of America. TITLE 5§ 3331, Unless you can provide me with the witness against me, which as a public servant you can not do.
You have struck against the Constitutional form of Government and maybe arrested on the spot and held for 1 year and 1 day for each Wanton Dereliction of Duty. TITLE 18 § 1918 Disloyalty and asserting the right to strike against the Government.
You have no immunity to me in a suite for damages or for jail time in either your private or public servant capacity. TITLE 42 > § 12202 A State shall not be immune. TITLE 15 § 1122 No Immunity to state actors. TITLE 42 > § 1983
You lack a victim, you lack a crime (No State codes, United States Codes, or Rules, You must use LAW) you lack a warrant, an indictment by a grand jury, and you lack jurisdiction both subject matter and personam.
You have committed the crime of summery judgment, false arrest, writ of attainder, conspiracy against rights and have committed abuse of power.
You are a rogue agent acting above the law.
http://www.stoptyranny.us/Oath-Office.doc
http://www.stoptyranny.net/
TITLE 18 > § 1918 strike against the Government.
TITLE 42 > § 12202 A State shall not be immune.
TITLE 15 § 1122 No Immunity to state actors.
TITLE 42 > § 1983 Civil action for deprivation of rights
TITLE 18 > § 2235 Search warrant procured maliciously
TITLE 42 Sec. 2000a-3. Civil actions for injunctive relief
TITLE 5 § 3331 Oath of office
IT is not my duty to stand up for your rights, my only duty is to stand up for my rights and my childrens rights.
June 16th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
kathryn Says:
May 14th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
They would have to build tens of thousands of new jail cells in Baltimore to house the parents who belong in jail because their children not only fail to get a basic education, but . . . bring weapons to school,
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Funny you should say that because [I am sure I am showing may age here] I remember when kids brought "weapons" to school and they were not considered a big deal because they were part a boy scout uniform [pocket knives on a belt lanyard] or guns [these students were [part of the rifle team].
b