British Professor Held in Rat-Infested Brazilian Prison over Alleged Child Support Arrearage
August 6th, 2008 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & FamiliesAnother example of the way the child support system leads to the abuse/jailing of ordinary citizens. From British university lecturer thrown into crowded Brazilian jail for not paying ex-wife £20,000 child support (Daily Mail, 7/30/08):
Martin Boyle is being held in a Sao Paulo prison over unpaid child support.
A British university lecturer has been thrown into a rat-infested Brazilian prison over claims that he owes £20,000 in child support.
Martin Boyle, 45, is in a cell with ten other inmates in Sao Paulo while his family in Britain face ever-increasing demands for cash.
He flew to the South American country last Friday determined to be reunited with his 16-year-old daughter Rebeca by his Brazilian former wife Mara. But instead of seeing her, he was immediately taken into custody and accused of owing more than £4,000 to Mara. His retired parents, Peter and Mary Rose Boyle, raided their pension to meet the 'debt' and get their son released - only for the Brazilian authorities to accept the money but then demand a further £16,000.
Last night Mr Boyle, 71, said he received a mobile phone text message from his son reading: 'Going into prison now. 'Have to leave mobile with lawyer. Don't know how long I will be there.' Mr Boyle, of Spalding, Lincolnshire, said: 'I have read all sorts of things about these jails - terrible stories about riots and gang rape and it's very disturbing. 'I am very worried about his welfare.'
Martin Boyle, who lectures in linguistics at the University of Kent in Canterbury, met Mara when she studied at his private English school in London in the 1980s.They moved to Brazil together and married, but their relationship broke down a few years after the birth of Rebeca and Mr Boyle returned to Britain. His father, a retired merchant seaman, said: 'He's been trying to gain access to Rebeca for years but it has always been denied by his former wife.' Heartbroken by seeing other fathers and children at a recent family wedding, Mr Boyle embarked on a spur-of-the-minute trip to Brazil hoping to see Rebeca for the first time in seven years.
The Brazilian authorities demanded £4,156 they claim Mr Boyle owes for child support dating back to 2003. His father said: 'It was all wired to Brazil through the Foreign Office. Now they are demanding £16,000 more. 'A cynic might say this was a scam'...
Read the full article here. Leaving aside possible corruption/extortion by Brazilian officials, to me the central question here is Boyle's assertion that his ex-wife was denying him access to his child. If that's true, he shouldn't owe anything. If she did allow access, I think child support was appropriate, particularly given the comparative poverty of Brazil.
Boyle's decision to leave Brazil and return to England after the break-up of his marriage doesn't speak too well of him. However, it's possible he was unable to make a living in Brazil. It's also possible that she was denying him access while they were in Brazil, and he figured by leaving he had little to lose.
One thing is for certain--I don't trust most governments (including Brazil's) to fairly adjudicate an international child support dispute.
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August 6th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
It's the beginning of the end. No man with any money or intelligence should get married or have kids. In other word only the wrong people should reproduce.
August 6th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Two thoughts here.
(1) Justin, obviously two many "wrong people" must have reproduced already for us to be where we are at now.
(2) Sorry that this happened to an educator, bu maybe when all is said and done, he can go back into the liberal university educational system and tell the liberals there how wrong they are.
Robert Kerr
August 6th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Denying a man access and then extorting money from him is quite a racket.
At least the U.S. is able to export something to other countries.
Mexican and South American prisons are notoriously corrupt. Once you pay and they figure you have money they will bleed you dry.
August 6th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
If you don't get married or have kids you won't even end up in situations like this.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
The father never should have left Brazil. Stay there, be poor, and see your child. If you have to move to provide for your child, then do so, but when you first see her denying access, move back.
I have sacrificed my career and earning potential (or put on hold rather) to be able to follow my ex around to be with my child. It was an easy decision. My daughter talks about stuff we did in other states as some of our best times together. Even at 12 she totally realizes my sacrifices and efforts, and loves me for it.
But, putting someone in jail for arrears is wrong across the board though. And unconstitutional.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
I wonder what will happen to him in prison?
August 6th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Jorge, Yes there are MAJOR hurdles in our society in order to be a father. But that is probably what I want to be more than anything else, (father and a husband).
It is very depressing to know that you really have virtually no Parental rights in the eyes of the state as a man. Something has to change.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Mental note to self: never knock a Brazilian chick up.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
It's a scam. Maybe this man owed L 4,000 [ $7,800] dollars after a couple of years. I stress maybe. But there is certainly no way he owes L 20,000 [$38,991]. I can guarantee that the average couple wouldn't spend anywhere near that in Brazil over 18 years.
This is just another example of South American cops using their power to pull an extortion scam to get what is a fortune to them.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Let's not blame the South American cops. They are just catching on the scam that has been going on for a long time in the Western countries. If our governments so blatantly deprive us of our civil rights here on home soil, what is to stop foreign governments from doing the same thing when we are visiting their turf? It's hunting season, and us Western Men are the deer. Happy Hunting!
August 6th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Glenn: "...Boyle's assertion that his ex-wife was denying him access to his child. If that's true, he shouldn't owe anything."
Ah, but there is a legal doctrine in which child support and visitation are supposedly completely differentiated. I.e. the payment of the former has no legal relevance to the exercise of the latter. This is
like claiming that your beer should be free because, after all, you only rented it. Judges, nevertheless, buy the argument and hence can and will lock up any father who failing to get his time with his kids reacts by withholding the only thing he can. Extortion, anyone?
August 6th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
I think it is unfair to describe Brazil as "rat-infested."
You could say that about New York City, L.A. or any large American town.
I spent a year in Brazil and lived in Rio, Sao Paulo, Brazilia, Salvador, and Manaus.
I did see some rats.
None of them would ever go up against a real American rat from Manhattan.
So, my point is - America still has the best and biggest rats.
Except for the ones that will be served up as a main course at the upcoming Chinese Olympic games.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Ah, but there is a legal doctrine in which child support and visitation are supposedly completely differentiated. I.e. the payment of the former has no legal relevance to the exercise of the latter.
------------------------------------------------------------
I know of several fathers who had to "plea bargain" with their ex during mediation in order to get more visitation. In return, they agreed to be extorted more (i.e., pay more C$, pay for 100% medical, and so on). Imagine that ... They have the child(ren) more - (meaning less cost to the mother) - yet they have to pay more at the same time.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
roy: I think the rat reference was to the jails. US jails are nothing to brag about, but South American jails are notorious.
Later,
B
August 6th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Q wrote: The father never should have left Brazil. Stay there, be poor, and see your child. If you have to move to provide for your child, then do so, but when you first see her denying access, move back.
I have sacrificed my career and earning potential (or put on hold rather) to be able to follow my ex around to be with my child. It was an easy decision. My daughter talks about stuff we did in other states as some of our best times together. Even at 12 she totally realizes my sacrifices and efforts, and loves me for it.
Well, unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) - every situation is unique and sometimes, people don't want to have to "follow their ex around" to be a parent to their child. Sometimes, financial constraints put people in positions to make decisions out of financial necessity... and sometimes, even when they DON'T move away, they're still relegated to every-other-weekend and a single dinner visit every other week.
Good for you. Not necessarily good for everyone else in the world.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
I was released from a Mexican jail once, for not having the money to exit the country.
The Mexican women came to the jail every day with food for all their men.
Eventually, after I enjoyed their food day after day, the jailers decided I was too expensive.
So they let the Gringo go home.
I really liked the food and the kind manner of the jailers.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Mister-M wrote: "Well, unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) - every situation is unique and sometimes, people don't want to have to "follow their ex around" to be a parent to their child. Sometimes, financial constraints put people in positions to make decisions out of financial necessity... and sometimes, even when they DON'T move away, they're still relegated to every-other-weekend and a single dinner visit every other week.
Good for you. Not necessarily good for everyone else in the world."
Didn't mean to come off preachy. I’m very lucky I could do this. One of my best friends is a divorced father who’s ex moved halfway across the U.S. back with her parents, and after child support couldn’t afford to go see her at all. He was also unable to find work at higher pay. 3 years after the divorce, he cannot find his child now, and the address where CPS sends his support checks (her parents) isn’t where she lives anymore. I guess they give her the checks, and tell him they don’t know where she is.
However, I don’t see this guy (in the article) as having the same issues. But who knows.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Time to call child support by it's real name....Matriarchy support.
Pay to have you're children raised in an irresponsible environment.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Yes Matriarchy Support. With maching Federal taxpayer based funding, massive beurocracy, and social services workers (like the one overseeing the supervised visitin that Rockefeller case) and all.
A giant money flow systems designed to have all American children raised by "The State" instead of their actual parents.
I thought we won the Cold War. When did the Commies win???
August 6th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
David Says:
August 6th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
I thought we won the Cold War. When did the Commies win???
_____________________________________________________________________
If you want to know when the Commies won, Google- Communist Goals 1963. Read into the U.S. Congressional record on January 10th 1963 by Representative Herlong of Florida. This is no B.S. This was actually read into the Congressional record and Glenn Beck has talked about i on his radio and television show. Read all 45 goals and you will be more than a little frightened.
August 6th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
cdub Says:
August 6th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Jorge, Yes there are MAJOR hurdles in our society in order to be a father. But that is probably what I want to be more than anything else, (father and a husband).
It is very depressing to know that you really have virtually no Parental rights in the eyes of the state as a man. Something has to change.
Greetings cdub...
I feel your pain... We all felt like that at one point, but it is similar to being told you have Cancer. First is denial, then comes feelings of anger, then comes acceptance. And you learn to live with your cancer and with proper treatment the cancer goes into remmision or is cured and its not the end of the world, and you can live a normal life, etc....
So you accept that dating, family, children are all never going to be in our lifetime and you move on "acceptance."
August 6th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Another quick example would be in Vietnam War the 1st generation M16 was introduced. It jammed had many other difficulties. So much so that several soldiers came to the "acceptance" stage that the weapon was crap and scraped it an used the enemies first generation AK47; now in its 3rd generation known as the AK74. Even risking being shot by their own soldiers by using the weapon of the enemy in combat situations (it sound different than an M16). Its all a matter of "acceptance."
August 6th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I feel like this at times Jorge, about accepting everything as is and just withdrawing from these dreams of being able to raise a family in this country.
However, I am not ready to give up. I know there are women out there that atcually love men, and are not brainwashed by feminist thought. That they do not identify themselves as victims of the 'patriarchy' or any of that nonsense. They see it for what it is, BS. These are women that take responsiblity for their actions and hold others responsible for their actions regardless if they are male or female. We have some here that post here from time to time like Davina.
I just know there are good women out there that see the problems we see, and want to help. And I know that is the only way we will even this thing out, that is with the help of women.
I am a hopeless romantic, but I am not hopeless. But it does get harder and harder when you read about stories like Mary Winkler for example, and you see that basically a man's life means nothing in this day and age.
August 6th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
cdub Says:
August 6th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I respect that... You best bet is joining a church and finding a christian woman. Now be hip no all women in church are good, a lot have "game" so you have to use your discernment. But that would be my best recommendation. Remember what I said once long ago on this blog, no everything that looks holy is holy... That's the best I can do for you.. God Bless.
August 6th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
David M - I just googled read up on the "Communist Goals 1963". Amazing!
I always suspected the concept of "no-fault-divorce-alimony" as a communist tool. I mean how can one "comrade" have obligations to support the other, when the other has no return obligations to support him with anything in kind. This sounds like Animal Farm, and how all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
Family Courts is the conduit by which the American public is losing respect and confidence in their own justice system. Weren't these things only created in the 70s/80s after the "no-fault" divorce reforms of the late-60's?
August 6th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Here in USA, we don't need to pass International VAWA; it's already out there.
August 6th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Q Says:
August 6th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
The father never should have left Brazil. Stay there, be poor, and see your child.
Maybe they based 'child support' payments on an amount that he could not earn in Brazil.
August 6th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
btw cdub stay away from any church that makes you get on your knees and ask forgiveness to women.
'Our pastor makes us husbands get on our knees on Mother's Day and beg for forgiveness...husbands write all the things we've done wrong and give it to their wives'
http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=2156
August 6th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
JD Says:
August 6th, 2008 at 3:28 pm "Ah, but there is a legal doctrine in which child support and visitation are supposedly completely differentiated."
That's the first scam and it's only in place because money comes first.
Profit for the government. code name - child support
____________________________________________
The duty to support children is based largely upon the right of a parent to their custody and
control. Patron v. Patron, 40 Va. Cir. 379 (1996); Butler v. Commonwealth, 132 Va. 609, 614; 110 S.E.
868 (1922).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A parent cannot be compelled to pay support unless he or she has refused or failed to provide
for them where he or she lives. Butler, 132 Va. at 614.
August 6th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
"[t]he interest of parents in the care,
custody, and control of their children is
perhaps the oldest of the fundamental
liberty interests recognized by this
Court"
23 23.Troxel v. Granville U.S.(2000)
August 6th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
“A man is under legal obligation to
support his children, and he may often be
required to do so when they are not living
with him, but he cannot be said to
willfully neglect and refuse to support
them where his wife, without reasonable
excuse, keeps them away from him.”27 27. Butler v Commonwealth of Virginia, 132 Va. 609; 110 S.E. 868; 1922 Va. LEXIS 58; 23 A.L.R. 861
August 6th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
“Where a wife .... keeps her children
away from her husband ... , the wife ...
can not charge the husband in a civil
suit for the support and maintenance of
the children.”
Butler v Commonwealth of Virginia, 132 Va. 609; 110 S.E. 868; 1922 Va. LEXIS 58; 23
August 6th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Parental right are “a fundamental right
protected by First, Fifth, Ninth and
Fourteenth Amendments”
Doe v. Irwin, 441 F. Supp. 1247 1251 (D. Mich. 1977)
August 6th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Thanks for the advice Jorge, but I do not attend church. I am an agnostic.
August 7th, 2008 at 4:09 am
"If she did allow access, I think child support was appropriate, particularly given the comparative poverty of Brazil"
I'm not sure I understand your thinking on that, Glenn. If poverty there is common, then it may also be the case that the cost of living there is lower than in Britain (unless Brazil has some kind of aristocracy with the 2% "haves" and the other 98% "have-nots"). Actually that raises an issue - shouldn't international child-support be tied to some extent, to cost of living for wife and child in their country? Someone living in Haiti, for example, could probably live in a palatial estate for the amounts they are demanding from fathers.
It could even start a new trend where foreign women come to the West to marry rich men, then subsequently divorce and get custody (using restraining orders, "spousal rape" allegations, etc as necessary), and then take the child and go back to live like royalty in their native second- or third-world countries.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:35 am
Sounds more like corruption than feminism.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:18 am
Isn't feminism just a specific kind of corruption? :-)
August 7th, 2008 at 10:58 am
You know, if you have not been been to Brazil, you really can't understand how it is impossible to not be poor.
These people can be impoverished and beautiful all at the same time.
It defies any American idea of a functional society to see such elegant people with nothing except their bodies to display. (I am not making this up --- you can see men and women walking around in their underwear all day long.)
Women in Rio, with no income, sit on the beach, take off their bikinis, oil up their bodies, and then they just relax into their identities.
I really have never seen anything as delicious as that in our free American country.
August 7th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
roy: Brazil won't be poor for too long. They, along with the other BRIC, countries are developing a strong economy with a growing middle class. It will be interesting too see if their country remains so open after it has developed more.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Isn't every prison in Latin America a rat-infested hellhole?
Note to self: Do not go to Latin America for any reason.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
BigB -- "Brazil won't be poor for too long."
You are correct.
Capitalism will eventually fix everything in Brazil.
TRhen it can become just another American-style mall, right?
Haiti is probably the last free country in my diary. (I have relatives there...)
Well, maybe Mexico City where women with children sit on sidewalks and sell peanuts just to try to stay alive for one more day.
How is this "free market" working out for everybody?
You have to leave your home town to find out.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
My basic rant, as a socialist --- and I will not appologize for that ---
there is no excuse for what we are all experiencing as a people in this sh*tstem.
Everything could be better. No need for a culture that says "every man for himself."
This American nation was not created by people who just wanted to go shopping.
The founding revolutionaries knew that there was a prospect for a national community.
Time to WAKE UP and take back our country!
No more fake democracy.
August 8th, 2008 at 8:26 am
It would be really interesting if absolutely no citizen voted in the next election.
Imagine ... no one voted.
What would that mean?
August 8th, 2008 at 11:46 am
What we have is not a true free-market capitalist economy. Instead, we have a corporate welfare/social welfare state. Get it right, next time.
August 9th, 2008 at 11:27 am
The word "welfare" is used to make a very sly argument that being poor is a sin in a capitalist economy.
You have to ask some basic questions...
What is our economy organized to provide?
What do we want as a society?
How much war do you want to see in your lifetime?
Who is really gaining from this system?
The 2%?
August 9th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
And I'm sick & tired of people like you trying to lump me in with neocon dirtbags like Bush & Co. I'm a real conservative, not a neocon. Real conservatives support fiscal responsibility, a non-interventionist foreign policy, & social issues to be decided at the local & state levels. Neocons prefer the opposite. Although, I see many leftists being closely similar to Bush & Co.
Do some reading, you might learn something.
August 13th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Nice reading all of these comments, guys - even if you did stray away from the issue a bit at times.
I´ve been released because of a legal challenge - the judge who examined the challenge saw straight away that the child support claim against me was seriously dodgy.
Many people think I´m crazy, but I´m staying in Brazil to continue my fight for access.