Glenn Debates Parental Alienation on Fox Morning Show (Video)
September 28th, 2008 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & Families
I appeared on Fox's nationally-syndicated Morning Show with Mike and Juliet Thursday to debate Geraldo Rivera and Dr. Joy Silberg over the issue of Parental Alienation.
Rivera puts the blame for post-divorce strife squarely on fathers.
Silberg is Vice President of the Leadership Council, an organization which is in the forefront of fighting against fathers' access to their children during custody disputes. The Leadership Council believes that Parental Alienation is a "batterers' tactic" and "junk science."
Also on the show were Bill and Sam Sears, a father-son combo who have dealt with Parental Alienation. Only 17, Bill was credible and remarkably even-handed. I'll be discussing Bill and Sam and some of the other aspects of Parental Alienation in posts throughout the week.
Silberg said that fathers blaming mothers for being alienated from their children is like a bank robber who denies robbing a bank, blaming it on "bankteller delusional syndrome."
I replied, "Separating a father from his children and not allowing him to him see his children and telling them that the father is bad and that you shouldn't want to be with him, that's really a very serious thing. It's not like 'bankteller delusional syndrome.'"
The most heated moment of the day came when Geraldo Rivera told me:
What you're not talking about is how many of these fathers stopped paying child support...It's always financial 95% of the time [after divorce]...the husbands' stop paying, the woman is desperate...it's about the money...you should really call it 'Parental Stiffing Alienation Syndrome' because that's what it is.
I shot back that the child support establishment's own studies show that the overwhelming majority of men who are behind on their child support are low income fathers.
I do have to give Geraldo credit for one thing. On the show he said "It's always financial...95% of the time it's the husband leaving the wife or the wife leaving the husband."
He said the part about the wife leaving in a lower voice so I thought he said that 95% of the time it's the husband who abandons the wife -- a common view among chivalrous males like Geraldo.
It wasn't until I watched this video back in Los Angeles that I realized that he had not meant that it was almost always the husband leaving the wife. During the show I jumped on him for that, explaining that the vast majority of divorces are initiated by women. I now realize that what I said there was not fair.
Another aspect of this is the use of the term "syndrome," which is controversial in and of itself. In general I simply refer to "Parental Alienation," but many in the media and the opposition refer to "Parental Alienation Syndrome." Alienating behaviors are harmful, whatever name you want to use.
Jennifer Collins also appeared on the show, speaking about the Holly Collins case. I later investigated the case and learned that Holly and Jennifer are grossly misrepresenting what happened in that case--to learn more, see my investigation here.
To watch the video of the show, click here for the first segment and here for the second, or see below.
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September 28th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Hey Geraldo, theres a pot of gold on the other side of that wall!
I'm experiencing PAS now. It is real. It started with the mother kidnapping my 1 year old daughter, and lying in the courts. She stepped it up by grounding my daughter for calling me on the phone. Then the ultimate step up/down was no communication between the mother and myself and over the past few years I was only speaking to my 10-12 year old duaghter about the exchanges. How much more real can it get?
Judge Judy should kick in on this. She was a family law judge for many years. She is pro shared parenting.
UK Group Spig has information on PAS.
http://www.spig.clara.net/issues/pas.htm
BTW in my opinion that fox show is tremendously biased against fathers. I've watched the show in the past. They pander to a mainly female audience during daytime. Most men work during those times and women are their target market. Unlike here, when you are on that show you are not preaching to the choir, but you are in my opinion there for their attempt at making a cursory attempt at fairness.
It's FatherTime
September 28th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
The producers of this show's segment obviously stacked the deck to favor feminist ideology. What a surprise!
Glenn did a great job of being expressing logic and facts.
Whenever you debate a feminist, you always have to expect that the emotional "victim" card will be played.
The feminist "expert" actually asserted that PAS does not exist.
You could easily hire her to assert that the sun does not rise in the east.
I truly despise these liars.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Silberg is so pompous. You can hear the "I know what im talking about and you are too stupid to correct me" atittude coming thru in the way she's trying to defelct eveerything to "Batterer tactics" and "Personal choice". Isnt that rich, a feminist, having the gall to talk about choice.
You did a good job Glenn...Im a bit militant and I would have thrown it back in Riveras faces all the stats and studies you have seen and posted in the past. But on the other side Geraldos ALWAYS been interested in "Sensationalistic" stories and has latched on the deadceat dad story a few times in the past. Him changing his mind would have been like the Capone Safe really having anything of importance in it.
I wouldnt worry too much about Rivera but SIlberg is the dangerous one. Shes going to use her accedemic crendentials and her outlets to try and convice people that PAS isnt reality.
I have a 17 yr old daughter who would say differently.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Honestly, I do think that we have to be careful with the "syndrome" concepts. Sometimes, the wrong people will benefit from them as did the abusive father spoken about in the segment.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
LorMarie ---
Do you believe that feminist ideology could be a "syndrome?"
Give it up girl.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
LorMarie ---
Do you believe that feminist ideology could be a "syndrome?"
Give it up girl.--Roy
I think that the whole postpartum depression claim after killing children is a copout as well.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Geraldine Rivera said it, 95% of it is money. Apparently Rivera has never fallen on hard times while having to pay support.
Good Job Glenn, keep on keepin' on!
Bill C
September 28th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
lormarie said:
"I think that the whole postpartum depression claim after killing children is a copout as well."
get out. how does that position go over at lunch with the girls at the chicago grill? you do voice that idea in some other forum than this blog, i assume? please reference those. i am not saying you are pandering, but then again i have been around for 6 decades and i gotta say one just does not find a women who voices an opinion such as you did here.
of course, my fre & fnm tripled so i guess anything is possible.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
how do we know the girl in the audience that was planted there,the one that said her brother got his skull cracked was not lying???
gender feminist's lie with such ease it is disturbing, because they are riding the victim hysteria, and know very few men have the intestinal fortitude to question the mob/ klan mentality that they have generated.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
get out. how does that position go over at lunch with the girls at the chicago grill? you do voice that idea in some other forum than this blog, i assume?--donnie w
No, I've actually voiced that off the net with women (face to face). The "worst" thing I told a group of women is that if it is their body and choice, it should also be their financial responsibility. That was done on and off the net. So you can rest assured, I don't pander nor do I avoid giving my opinion when necessary. I've gotten into plenty of heated arguments on woman focused forums. Some have made it clear that my voice is not welcome.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
And Glenn failed to mention the adult child victim who was in the audience. In fact although her and her mother and brother have been in the news quite frequently over the last few months - she has yet to recieve any mention on this blog. Could this be because her father was extremely abusive, her father did play the money trumo card and claimed PAS (or PA - true to form for an abuser using PAS to discredit abuse claims on the mothers and children's part). Why was this little fact of the show not mentioned? In counting the people on this show there was Silberg, Geraldo, and the young lady in the audience. That is 3 anti-PAS. Then there was the father son team and you Glenn who were pro-PAS. By my counts that is 3 also. Okay you can say we had more because the young lady was older than the son by 5 years I will give you that. And quite possibly Geraldo and Silberg total age combined was more than your and the dad.
OMG now we are splitting hairs over this. It was evenly matched and our side issued a better statement. You interupted several times which I considered extremely rude, but thankfully Geraldo true to form never skipped a beat and gave it right back to you in spades. What a great man. Only way this show could have been better is if Liz, Lundy or Marcia could have been on it. Now that would have made for some great TV.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
The wall of matriarchal mob/ klan hysteria is showing some cracks.
Keep up the great work Glenn, for the avante guard of the men/fathers/boys rights movement will earn there place in history.
Hey if it were easy, everyone would be doing it!!
September 28th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
menscollegeactivist.org Says:
September 28th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
how do we know the girl in the audience that was planted there,the one that said her brother got his skull cracked was not lying???
______________________________________________________________
Uhhh because if you looked up her name online you would see she is notlying. Her and her mother and brother have been mentioned quite a bit over the last few months. Netherlands ring a bell anyone? I forgot that she probably wasn't mentioned to you because this would prove OUR point and disprove YOUR point. PAS or PA is mainly used by accused abusers to try to continue to control the victim mother.
Australia is even turning the corner by denouncing PAS/PA in their actions against a corrupt psychologist/psychiatrist who had sued this bogus syndrome against many mothers in Australian courts. This information has made it to the US and is being taught to judges everywhere (I know it is in my locality finally). Hopefully we can put an end to the further abuse of children through the use of PAS/PA.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Oh and the "girl" is not a girl she is a woman. Last time I looked age 18+ in most states makes a female a woman.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Hey lady, news flash for you, This is the age of the internet, and people are circumventing you're media lace Curtain.
http://www.menweb.org/lacecur1.htm
September 28th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Jennifer Collins, the young woman from the audience is featured in this article. http://www.startribune.com/local/29631594.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUJ
Her mother was just given 40 hours of community service for stealing the children from the custodial parent and absconding to the Netherlands for a number of years. She was finally caught by the FBI. The sentence" pathetic.
There were allegations of abuse against the father, but the court ruled that he should be the custodial parent. Lesson to parents, steal the children, allege abuse, leave the country, brainwash your children, and win big.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
All feminists and the mainstream media are your enemy. If you see someone who admits to being a feminist, treat that person as if she (or he) has the bubonic plague.
Feminists are hell-bent on making sure that men get financially raped in court through alimony and child support, lose custody of their children, and are never allowed to see their children again.
Silberg is a blood-thirsty feminist who wants to further the subjugation of men under the current legal system of family law and divorce court.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Gender victim feminists Parade there victims in front of the media, while activelly making an effort to keep "politically incorrect" victims from the publics view.
" You go girl"
September 28th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
My father was abusive because of alcoholism, my mom left him, he quit drinking and came home. The things my mother did back then in todays age would be considered PAS/PA. I do not hate my father, in fact I love him very much. I am glad that before he died he was able to develop a relationship with his chidlren because he realized he had a drinking problem and that he was abusive and stopped. However because some of their chidlren (my siblings and I) were old enough to understand what was going on my mother shared that with us. I hated him for the fact we had to move and leave my friends. But he got help and that healed the anger and the hurt. But she would have been accused of PAS/PA in today's world and lost her children had my father decided to divorce her and fight for custody.
And this is what we claim to be happening all over the world. Slowly these children are coming out who have been removed due to PAS/PA and it is not going to be good for abusive men who lie.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
The interview also mentioned the American Bar Associations position on "Parental Alienation syndrone".
They don't want to recognise it, because the more single mother homes, the more crime, chaos, and lawsuits they can feed off!!
September 28th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Charlie Says:
September 28th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Her mother was just given 40 hours of community service for stealing the children from the custodial parent and absconding to the Netherlands for a number of years. She was finally caught by the FBI. The sentence" pathetic.
There were allegations of abuse against the father, but the court ruled that he should be the custodial parent. Lesson to parents, steal the children, allege abuse, leave the country, brainwash your children, and win big.
________________________________________________________________
There was more than allegations - there were numerous reports from therapists, doctors, friends of both the father and mother. Father had more money, beat the mother and PAS/PA MSBP was claimed by the father and he won. A case of an abusive man using these syndrome to get custody to further abuse. The young woman in question plans on becoming an advocate for abused children and women!!!! Her brother does not want to speak to his father due to the abuse. The young woman attempted to speak to her father and he stated that she was 14 years too late, denying her the ability to speak to him. There are pictures the children drew for therapists. Hospital/doctor reports for mother and children. The government of the Netherlands believed her claims of abuse, granting her asylum. Forty hours is too much time because she was simply trying to protect her children and herself. There is all of this and so much more.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
i wish we had a national organization for men.....and glenn was president
September 28th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
“I forgot that she probably wasn't mentioned to you because this would prove OUR point and disprove YOUR point. “
This is how intelligent the enemy is- even if the girl was genuine it wouldn’t prove anything, only support it. If the girl’s testimony “proves” the filthy animal’s point, then the father-son team “prove” our point so by her own standards of evidence this creature should admit we are right.
“By my counts that is 3 also.”
On our side the only one with any authority was Glenn, the dad was just an average guy, not an expert, and the kid was, well, a kid. On the side of Beelzebub were a psychologist and a big tv star, and “a woman not a girl”. It is highly likely that when casting the show the producers knew they were loading the side they favor with authority figures, so as to influence the public to see things their way.
re the young woman- the accusations against the father have never been proven, neither in fact have the accusations of Munchausen’s against the mother, but if we must believe he was abusive we must also believe the same of her- the evidence is equally weak. And as for the girl's view of dad- she’s spent most of her life listening to her mother’s side of the story, and so is hardly a reliable source.
As for Geraldo I have nothing but contempt for the man- when some 30 year old woman rapes a 13 year old boy he is the first scumbag to leap to her defense.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
I believe you did great Glen, but I also believe this was carefully choreographed with a standard tactic of evade, misdirect and shock and awe. I think the M&J show is bias, 90% not to the good they just need a target for the feminist rant.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
wow, great job! Glen is my personal Hero :) I think I probably would have lost it on Geraldo. Buddy said, he got behind on payments and that piece of crap says he admitting to stopping payments. I would have lost it.
I agree that folks have to be careful with PAS. Jerks who abuse this and lie about it are no better then those who lie about rape. Anyone who does either should get minimum a few years in prison or shot.
Planted - Thanks for sharing. My mother was the abusive one in my case. opened my older brothers skull once and a long long list of bad things. She attempted to poison me against my father (and maybe it worked) and went as far as claiming sexual molestation later when my father decided to try to get custody (years after he left, when I called him crying that my mother was out drinking at the bars and left me alone at 10 a bunch of times).
I am not 100% sure i experieced PAS, but I know my mother said allot of horrible things, and i was made to feel guilty for wanting to see him. My father also said stuff once in a while too. The only reason I got to see him at all was that she found me crying behind the TV when I was 5 or 6 and felt guilty I guess.
Anyway, Point is, I believe it. I think it's real and men and women can do it. I'm sure it can be abused too, but I sure take abuse allegations with a grane of salt. I have heard too many stories (some from those who were close to me) about abuse to find out it was all made up. My wife's friend went so far as to claim she was running from him, and that he sliced his son up before with broken glass and bit him. She spent all this time saying thigns with incredible detail and then turns out she made it all up.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Show me a male feminist, and I'll show you a eunuch in every sense of the word. Geraldo Rivera fits that description.
Show a female feminist, and I'll show you a cold-blodded rattlesnake in every sense of the word. Joyanna Silberg fits that description.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
That should read cold-blooded
September 28th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
So all you can do is reost to name-calling? The "plant" in the audience has plenty of evidence concerning the abuse, it was so named in their court documents, but the dad still got custody. The newspapers say MSBP but further down they call it interference with his visitation (when she ahd custody). Interference with visitation is not MSBP as written, it is what MRA's claim to be PAS/PA.
Burke if what you say is true about your mother abusing you (I can be doubting just as many of you doubt) I am truly sorry for the pain you went through. This does not change anything about a woman who claims abuse and then loses custody of her chidlren to the abuser through PAS/PA claims. This happens everyday and everyday more of these cases are being overturned and debunked. It will only be a matter of time.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
It sounds much worse then It is I think. I still love my parents and my mother did chill out when she re-married (I was about 13). My older brother didn't fair so well, but he ran away when he hit 16 or so. Before that her nerves just couldn't handle me and my brother. I didn't know if i was going to get a hug or a back hand half the time. She can still pretty much floor me with just a twitch of her eye but she very rarely loses her cool now a days I assume. She was still great in many other ways. She just couldn't handle raising kids (alone especially). I have to admit I am still a little bitter seeing my half brother and sister living with my bio father who had a perfect little family.
As I said before, someone who lies about PAS is about as low as it goes.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Joyanna Silberg “Studies have actually shown that, studies have actually looked at why do children refuse to visit their fathers or their mothers and they looked at the reasons and guess what? The most frequent reason that children refuse to visit, because of the behavior of that e parent that parent has done something weather it was emotional or humiliation and the studies show, the studies actually show that is the least likely reason.”
Glenn Sacks “Or how that behavior was inerprited by the mother telling the kid that dad is bad.”
Glenn, that thought was the exact thought I had when I was listening to this telecast.
How dare Geraldo Rivera twist Sam Sears words and then ignore his protests about the fact that he did not stop child support payments rather that he got behind. He has no scruples what so ever. He really is a spectial hunter and beneith any level of credibility. Joyanna Silberg and her weak analogy of the bank robber. That is like comairing apples and dumptrucks. Furthermore her use of ALL is disturbing for someone who touts a PhD. It jost goes to prove that the PhD is not worth the paper it is printed on. Most of the people on your blog are smarter that her and would have never fallen for that silly unmitigated statement. And then there is Bills mother, that guttless creep using the school to do her dirty work. If that is not abuse of the system I do not know what is.
b
September 29th, 2008 at 12:01 am
menscollegeactivist.org Says:
September 28th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
how do we know the girl in the audience that was planted there,the one that said her brother got his skull cracked was not lying???
=============
MCA,
Come on now, this show would not put a plant in the audience any more that a magician or a tent revival faith healer would.
b
(-=
September 29th, 2008 at 12:02 am
just stay single and avoid the entire mess
September 29th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Jorge Says:
just stay single and avoid the entire mess
Good advice- the problem is all the poor bastards who leapt before they looked, that's who im arguing all this on behalf of, not myself.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:32 am
“So all you can do is reost to name-calling?”
How dare she! I’ve never reosted anything in my life! Reosting is a very bad thing and I would never condone it, whatever it is.
Name calling is actually the nice part of these posts- in most people’s eyes what really hurts the enemy is having their logical fallacies pointed out eg not knowing the difference between deduction and induction.
By her own standards the father and son “proved” she is wrong, hence that debate is over.
“The "plant" in the audience has plenty of evidence concerning the abuse, it was so named in their court documents, but the dad still got custody.”
According to the court he got custody because she was disturbed. That much we know, what we don’t know is what the evidence presented in court by the mother was. It’s all very easy for her to claim she has evidence, but where are the links to the documents?
September 29th, 2008 at 1:33 am
Burke, your mother was/is a very bad woman and the fact that you are making excuses for her makes me think you have a long way to go in recovering from the damage she inflicted. My advice is to wait till she gets old enough and then throw her into one of those homes you see on sixty minutes.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:37 am
“I forgot that she probably wasn't mentioned to you because this would prove OUR point and disprove YOUR point. “
Even if the girl was genuine it wouldn’t prove anything, only support it. If the girl’s testimony “proves” the point, then the father-son team “prove” our point so by her own standards of evidence we are right and she is wrong.
“By my counts that is 3 also.”
On our side the only one with any authority was Glenn, the dad was just an average guy, not an expert, and the kid was, well, a kid. On the side of Beelzebub were a psychologist and a big tv star, and “a woman not a girl”. It is highly likely that when casting the show the producers knew they were loading the side they favor with authority figures, so as to influence the public to see things their way.
re the young woman- the accusations against the father have never been proven, neither in fact have the accusations of Munchausen’s against the mother, but if we must believe he was abusive we must also believe the same of her- the evidence is equally weak. And as for her view of dad- she’s spent most of her life listening to her mother’s side of the story, and so is hardly a reliable source.
As for Geraldo I have nothing but contempt for the man- when some 30 year old woman rapes a 13 year old boy he is the first to leap to her defense.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:42 am
Some of these feminists ought to move to a socialist country somewhere, where the person (esp, if it is a man) - is guilty unless proven innocent. Cracking a child's skull is an assault. And a person would serve prison sentence for that - unless it was really some accident that caused the skull cracking and the woman - oops - the GIRL was coached to misinterpret and misrepresent it as an action of the father. Glenn keep up the good fight - I hope your peaceful efforts succeed. Although with the economic downturn coming - there is a large possibility that fathers will bear the first brunt of the financial downturn (i.e. Being hit with divorces due to untrue beliefs of being able to milk him better). Also in the long term, it may reinstate the role of the male as the provider - thus refocusing on male disposability.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:48 am
Go Geraldo wrote:
"And Glenn failed to mention the adult child victim who was in the audience. In fact although her and her mother and brother have been in the news quite frequently over the last few months - she has yet to recieve any mention on this blog."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a free country and last time I checked, Glenn allows imbecilic posts (your post proves it) so the only person to blame for not posting a contrary opinion is the person failing to post. Don't blame Glenn for being a "helpless" person...blame yourself.
In addition, there is a reason Michelle Malkin, Ollie North, and Connie Chung have all made public statements against Geraldo and it is not limited to differences of opinions. In addition, who could forget Geraldo's grandstanding three-hour special into Al Capone's vault? Andrew Dice Clay, in very colorful language that cannot be repeated, stated Geraldo wasted our time.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:56 am
Glenn - I am sorry that you had to talk to Geraldo (I hope you had access to a shower shortly thereafter)... but it is good to see you getting some more air time.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:14 am
Good works Glenn .... it is unfortunate that the deck is always stacked with surprises to undermine rather than have a real honest conversation. It is odd that Rivera gets child support payments he can actually afford, so he thinks every Dad has had the same Celebrity treatment he did. Can you say narcissist? As for Silberg ...again the lies and she coached Jennifer too - first words out of Jennifer's mouth - "my father was always abusive" - a standard feminist coaching lie ... when asked about arguments between her mother and father. Silberg pointed at her to cue her.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:29 am
Joyanna Silberg is a perfect example of why I don't have much regard for the psychology profession anymore. That analogy about the bank robber excusing their behaviour by saying they are suffering "teller alienation syndrome" was pathetic.
What is her point? That all divorced fathers who want greater opportunities to maintain relationships with their children are no better than bank robbers?
These people are not interested in having a fair and honest debate about the issues. They simply want to engage in a whole lot of hyperbole and cheap shots.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:33 am
Again we have to resort to name calling. This is always the first tool in an abusers toolbox. Then we get to intimidation and then it is the physical and sexual violence. And you want people to believe that moms are actually threatening your fatherhood? Puhhhleassse...........
PAS/PA is junk, bogus aimed only to help abusers and hurt the victims (mostly women and the children).
As far as my typoes - I have explained that in the past. My ex was physically abusive and at times when I type certain words, letters might get reversed or not typed due to the remnants of the abuse. I see plenty of men on here with typoes and nobody corrects them or tries to humiliate them. This is another abuser tactic (we now have name calling, humiliation, intimidation). What else will we add?
September 29th, 2008 at 3:35 am
Glenn says "I do have to give Geraldo credit for one thing. On the show he said "It's always financial...95% of the time it's the husband leaving the wife or the wife leaving the husband."
He said the part about the wife leaving in a lower voice so I thought he said that 95% of the time it's the husband who abandons the wife -- a common view among chivalrous males like Geraldo."
Glenn, I'd say it was Geraldo's fault that you misunderstood him. It is clear from the way he framed the statement that he was trying to convey the impression that men initiate most divorces (and presumably leave their wives impoverished and disadvantaged). He was being deliberately misleading.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:49 am
Name Calling says "Burke if what you say is true about your mother abusing you (I can be doubting just as many of you doubt) I am truly sorry for the pain you went through. This does not change anything about a woman who claims abuse and then loses custody of her chidlren to the abuser through PAS/PA claims. This happens everyday and everyday more of these cases are being overturned and debunked. It will only be a matter of time."
The problem is that if you cry wolf too often, people won't belief you when there actually is a wolf.
When women are encouraged to make up false or exaggerated claims of abuse in much of the legal system, there will be some situations where a genuine allegation is not believed due to the large number of false claims.
This is a standard feminist tactic. Push your luck until eventually you provoke a backlash. Then cite the backlash as further evidence of an evil conspiracy against women, and use this to remobilise your movement.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:53 am
Name Calling Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 3:33 am
Again we have to resort to name calling. This is always the first tool in an abusers toolbox. Then we get to intimidation and then it is the physical and sexual violence. And you want people to believe that moms are actually threatening your fatherhood? Puhhhleassse...........
PAS/PA is junk, bogus aimed only to help abusers and hurt the victims (mostly women and the children).
As far as my typoes - I have explained that in the past. My ex was physically abusive and at times when I type certain words, letters might get reversed or not typed due to the remnants of the abuse. I see plenty of men on here with typoes and nobody corrects them or tries to humiliate them. This is another abuser tactic (we now have name calling, humiliation, intimidation). What else will we add?
==============
Name Calling,
Puhhhleassse........... you are blaming your X for your dyslexia and lack of use of a spell checker? Get a grip . . . this tactic of blaming others for your short comings is very typical of a person that will minimize their roll in a troubled relationship.
There have been many times here that I have been ribbed for the same thing, some in jest and others just being mean spirited, only YOU can stop playing the victim. One mean spirit followed me to my blog to roast me about my typos there rather than debate the subject matter, so stop wining.
b
September 29th, 2008 at 4:00 am
Name Calling,
Did you marry your ex? Or did you have a relationship with him?
If yes, then how is that my problem? Maybe you like men who are abusive or maybe you are not smart enough to figure out a abusive personality OR maybe you did not care about abuse while forming the relationship .. not my fault. Maybe you ought to learn to like good men, and not go for the bad ones.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:09 am
"95% of the time it's the husband leaving the wife or the wife leaving the husband"
that sounds weak. I'm sure mutual breakups account for more than 5%. Like for couples who have been separated, say. Sounds like Geraldo "The Beer-Bottle Exhumer" Rivera pulled that number out his butt.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:14 am
name caller says,
"PAS/PA is junk, bogus aimed only to help abusers .."
Can you cite a specific example, like say a man who was compensated in some way by the court due to a finding of Parental Alienation, then later beat his wife? Wouldn't that be hard to do if they were already divorced and thus not living together? Or maybe during visitation he gave the child a post-hypnotic suggestion to slug the mother?
September 29th, 2008 at 4:22 am
Name Calling...
You are selfish little PIG. (reference to A.Baldwin) I commented first to this article. I am experiencing PAS NOW!!!
You type and SAY...
"PAS/PA is junk, bogus aimed only to help abusers and hurt the victims (mostly women and the children)."
ONLY???? I am going through this right now. I haven't taken it to court!!! I experience the real alienation right now. I am educated. I am not using it to abuse the system. I haven't taken it to the system. Because it is faulty and a BIG FRAUD ... Just like you.
You are stupid to make any ANY statement using the terms ALL, NEVER, ALWAYS, and other general statements that don't take into account REALITY!
EXAMPLE #1
My ex was physically abusive and at times when I type certain words, letters might get reversed or not typed due to the remnants of the abuse.
Reality CHECK. You type faster than you think, or you don't think, or you can't spell very well, or you are uneducated. But don't blame your brain tick on physical abuse from the 1950's.
I now label you "Troll" and will ignore you for my well being.
It's FatherTime
September 29th, 2008 at 4:24 am
"PA is junk"
So, no parent has ever alienated his or her child from the other parent? I do know that is what my mom did to me and my siblings, against my dad. Gee, maybe I'm the only living example..
I think by calling this a "syndrome", some father's rights groups have shot themselves in the foot. The reason is that society has gotten fed up with hearing about new "syndromes", so anything labelled as such provides a relatively easy target. (of course if it's "battered woman syndrome" or etc, then it's still valid..it's protected due to being "grandfathered in", since it was created at a time when people readily accepted whatever b.s. was then applicable ).
September 29th, 2008 at 4:36 am
A lot of mothers alienate the fathers while being married to them too. It usually leads to the father feeling left out and knowing that he somehow the kids are poisoned against him. A father needs to do no wrong, just the fact that mom gets to spend more time with the child will get some mothers to incite the kids against dad. Eventually the kids turn against the mother as well, making up with dad. Thus the PA of mothers (and of course fathers too) who actually need help - ends up hurting the kids, the other parent as well as the alienating parent - NO one WINS - all for nothing simply because of lack of psychological/psychiatric help. Interestingly it is the feminist domination of soft sciences that has lead the people who are supposed to investigate the issue to back off and not hold any position on the topic.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:45 am
It is absolutely pathetic that the strikingly self-righteous and narrow-minded victim feminist on this thread actually blames her ex-husband for her consistent misspellings; calls other posters abusers for mentioning them; and does so only shortly after complaining about "name-calling."
September 29th, 2008 at 6:11 am
ok...I've calmed down a bit.
I'm sorry Glenn for getting so upset with the troll. I will control myself better. She called me a liar. That upset me.
I should know better than to make personal attacks. I'll go stand in the corner and think about my actions.
I'll be back when I can control my "name calling, humiliation, intimidation" of the poor victim poster.
FatherTime
September 29th, 2008 at 7:02 am
To Namecalling, Go watch oprah and leave the thinking people to discuss this.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:05 am
father time..............good job except for the humble post at 6:11am. you said it, you meant it and i think most would agree it needed to be stated.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:18 am
Feminist Coward wrote...
“Again we have to resort to name calling. This is always the first tool in an abusers toolbox.”
Again we resort to labeling men abusers due to a few words. If this is the litmus test then every feminist on the net is an abuser. And now, she goes into this interesting progression...
“Then we get to intimidation and then it is the physical and sexual violence.”
Which is probably meant to draw a parallel between those of us who compare her kind to the early homos and those who commit far more serious transgressions. It’s a way of saying that under every man who says something women don’t want to hear there’s a rapist and batterer -feminist ideology at it’s worst.
“Puhhhleassse...........”
She misspelled please.
“ This is another abuser tactic (we now have name calling, humiliation, intimidation). What else will we add?”
According to her- physical and sexual violence.
I’ve said it to the men and ill say it to the trolls- the boxing ring is no place for someone with a glass jaw.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:37 am
Glenn great defense of the truth. You didnt let them get away with the sweep it under the rug.
September 29th, 2008 at 8:14 am
Norman says "I think by calling this a "syndrome", some father's rights groups have shot themselves in the foot. The reason is that society has gotten fed up with hearing about new "syndromes", so anything labelled as such provides a relatively easy target."
Agreed. In fact, I have syndrome fatigue syndrome!
My parents divorced when I was quite young, and both my mother and father would constantly bad-mouth each other when I was with them. So after many years I wound up with 'tired of having everyone's baggage dumped on me' syndrome!
September 29th, 2008 at 8:33 am
Michael Claymore says "It’s a way of saying that under every man who says something women don’t want to hear there’s a rapist and batterer -feminist ideology at it’s worst."
Exactly. It's a standard tactic to shut men up if they dare to question the prevailing wisdom that women are always the victims and men the perpetrators. And it often works in silencing dissent.
September 29th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Norman says "that sounds weak. I'm sure mutual breakups account for more than 5%. Like for couples who have been separated, say. Sounds like Geraldo "The Beer-Bottle Exhumer" Rivera pulled that number out his butt."
I don't know that much about Geraldo Rivera, but just from a couple of searches and Wikipedia he seems like a cheapjack tabloid presenter who should not be called on to provide serious analysis of these kinds of issues.
September 29th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Nick S. - nice analysis.
But I guess we should ask -- why IS feminism the "prevailing" wisdom?
That would logically suggest that the powerful Evil Patriarchy has passed away and has been replaced by another ideology, right?
September 29th, 2008 at 8:51 am
Anybody recall the big TV special where Geraldo Rivera cracked open Al Capone's secret Chicago vault on live TV on April 27, 1986?
He found NOTHING and wasted two hours of air time!
I would like to see Geraldo debate Sarah Palin.
They could market it as the "Battle of the Bimbos."
September 29th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Tommy -- "Silberg is a blood-thirsty feminist who wants to further the subjugation of men under the current legal system of family law and divorce court."
You know, you are never going to get laid with that kind of attitude.
You need to find a kinder and gentler way of describing women.
I like to use terms like parasite, vampire, predator, raunch girls, etc.
You can call a woman any of these names and they will still go to bed with you.
September 29th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Geraldo is the "expert" on PAS that they put up. Geraldo? Well if that's the best they got it is truly a sad day....
The same guy who duped millions with his "vault", has ZERO journalistic credibility and integrity and is a proven liar (check his wiki out for a good listing of his exploits) is who they present as an expert on divorce and PA? If it wasn't so sad I'd be LMAO
September 29th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Roy says "But I guess we should ask -- why IS feminism the "prevailing" wisdom?
That would logically suggest that the powerful Evil Patriarchy has passed away and has been replaced by another ideology, right?"
Roy, it's because the Evil Patriachy was never that strong or all-pervasive to begin with. Whereas the forces of chivalry and cultural sympathy for women were always strong to begin with.
The feminists basically vanquished a weak, and for the most part benevolent, opponent. But they like to pretend that they conquered Darth Vader.
September 29th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Nick S. -- "The feminists basically vanquished a weak, and for the most part benevolent, opponent. But they like to pretend that they conquered Darth Vader."
That is a truly illuminating insight into the Gender Wars.
I would never have thought about it until your comment. Thanks!
So the theory would be --- INFLATE a weak opponent, cultivate him, set him up, and then defeat him?
I have to go re-read Sun Tzu's "Art of War" again for the fifteenth time.
I really hate it when 6,000 year old thinkers prove that we have learned nothing.
September 29th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Yep Roy. They set up a straw man. Then knocked it over. And then started singing "I am woman hear me roar!"
September 29th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Well done Glenn, thank you.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Again Glenn Thanks!
My daughter and I are the classical victims for both sides of the issue created by the Leadership Council, Justice for Children, Legal Momentum (arm of N.O.W., Stop Family VIolence, Courageous Kids, Children's Protection Council, attorney Richard Ducote, Eli Newberger, M.D., Paul Fink, M.D., Rep.David Lujan-Az., Sheriff Michael Bouchard-Mi., author Chip St. Clair, attorney Randy Burton and others.
Some of the largest law firms help Justice for Children-JFC in Houston, Texas give the child to the alienating, abusive parent. In my case it was Fulbright and Jaworski, Llp. Another firm, Haynes and Boone, Llp recently loaned attorney Alene Levy to JFC. Ms. Levy told it all regarding how these groups think in a May 2, 207 edition of the Houston Chronicle. She said that "when a mother discloses child sexual abuse on the part of the father, she is correct" and that "the father will then in a custody suit retaliate by claiming parental alienation on the part of the mother". This group rejects PAS and plainly says so on their web site.
Now the point I want to make is that Iwas falsely accused of sexual abuse by the mother of my daughter, a severe level alienator, narcissist, borderline personality disordered individual. So you see in this case the mother, a female, turned out to use the very same tactics they say are used by only a father. And true enough I, a man, claimed PAS. But in this case PAS was real and very present and knowable without having to use too much imagination. And too if that were not enough this mother was out committing three felonies while getting their free help. It was not the first time either she had done illegal things.
Today our daughter at 23 years of age still cannot speak with me. She dropped out of high school, accepted money from her teachers she never paid back (money given to keep her in school), and made a baby. In the five and one half years she ahdresided with me she found love and respect, had flourished, and was headed for a college educated career.
Those of us who know about parental alienation will win this war of principalities and nations! To those of you still on the other side I suggest you read Anne Wilson Schaef, When Society Becomes An Addict, Harper and Row, 1986. She too had believed as they do. And read Dr. Amy JL Baker's, Adult Children of Parental Alienation and D.r Stephen Baskerville's, Taken into Custody. Peruse the site www.paao.org.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:16 am
The only thing Silberg didn't say was 'Hey Mom I'm the biggest kid in grade 3 !'
Good job Glenn, it isn't easy to be the voice of reason amongst childish adults !
Oh and Glenn don't be too hard on yourself about Geraldo ...He sleeps well every night regardless of what he does and says.
He received the celebrity discount in Family Court and therefore his support was never 90-150% of his earnings - or imputed earnings - Ha -yet the eunech sits there and claims it's all about money - what a h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e ?
September 29th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Planted -
"PAS or PA is mainly used by accused abusers to try to continue to control the victim mother. "
Mainly used is incredibly offensive. You throw out some real prove that most PA cases are really just using it to control the mother?
So you are saying the custodial parent has "CONTROL" over the Non-costodial parent?
September 29th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Busted!
What I liked was when the male host of the show exposed the lie that the (likely) feminist PhD told when she said that the American Psychological Association (APA) said PAS was not real. To me this showed once again how politically-motivated psychological 'professionals' will stoop to lying, and from my experience in academia, most of those 'professionals' are strongly biased in a feminist direction. Therefore, I never take their word at face value. As always, YMMV.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Planted -
"PAS or PA is mainly used by accused abusers to try to continue to control the victim mother. "
Guys/Gals - Planted is prolly a member of the Battered Mother's Custody Conference in Albany NY. They have been spewing lies for years about how abusive men ALWAYS get custody. Her terminiolgy falls right in line with theres and nothing you say will matter.
She will simply take your remarks and dismiss anything you say as proof you are an abuser. Her contention that they produced 1 thats ONE person is proof that PAS is junk science - yeah ok....
also the junk science thing they attribute the the APA when in fact the APA have never said any such thing and furthermore has in fact REFUTED the claim. YET the BMCC continues to repeat the lie.
so Planted is in fact a plant herself -they are trolling for quotes to further their cause - been there done that
funnist thing yet is that I have seen their "hero's" and most of them are classic abusers and in fact most of their membership has been found guilty of abuse so.......
September 29th, 2008 at 11:47 am
There are a handful of "cherished myths" that need to be demolished if men are to have anything that even closely resembles equality in divorce court let alone the court of public opinion. And sometimes the two are closely linked.
The first is that every person needs to know, including feminists like Joy Silberg, that 75% of divorces are initiated by women.
The second is that women are not always the victims they are painted out to be. Sometimes they are as vicious as any man and have absolutely no compuntion about taking every last nickle then can from men and that many have no desire about ever sharing custody even when it is absolutely the right thing.
As I see it, Professors like Silberg are fighting a losing battle. They have the laws, the media, and half of the country on their side. Their problem is that they have overreached and will have to eventually suffer the erosion of their feminist privlidges.
Glenn, congratulations on your fight. Just the fact that you made it on TV is a small sign that the total monopoly women / feminists have on the media is eroding. Feminists will always need to take the extreme positions. Men are only fighting for equality and to share. Women want the whole thing.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:50 am
I think a very basic and simple form of PA is probably even experienced by children in "in-tact" homes. Am I the only one who had a mother who threw out the "you are just like your father" explamation whenever she was mad at me? How more explicit can you be than to associate any and all of your childs bad behavior with his/her father? Are we to believe this goes away when marriages fail/parents split?
I get angry when I hear the "only men abuse" crap because my mother was the violent parent in my family. I simply refuse to rewrite my life experiences around the statements of someone who has never met either of my parents saying it must have been dad's fault.
I would bet my bottom dollar that the day we get a nationwide shared parenting act, PA becomes the new favorite of feminst organizations to show how fathers are turning children against mothers and are therefore unfit parents. Every time a mother "feels" her child "loves daddy more" they are going to go to court over it.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Great job, Glenn. The show really was biased against PA/PAS...from the hosts to the "guests". You could say you were alienated! lol
Seriously, I find it very interesting that all the people who claim PA/PAS is "junk science" are coming out the woodwork now and being sought out by the networks.
I am a former alienator who has stopped alienating. But I am a nightmare to NOW, the feminist movement, and others that want to spread hate.
"Professionals" can cite their statistics and "sayings" until they are red in the face, but experience speaks the loudest.
I do believe that overall it is good that PAS is being brought out as it is making more people aware that there is a name for the awful treatment hundreds and thousands of people are experiencing worldwide and helps them to know they are not going crazy and they are not alone.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:56 am
I watched this video with great amusement. Geraldo and the PhD clearly have an agenda, which further degrades their claims and credibility. How the general public does not notice or acknowlege this this escapes me.
Parenta Alienation? I wouldn't believe that such a thing exists either, until I had my court ordered visitation rights to my children thwarted by their mother with the blessings of DSS-for 12 years. Result? My children are all grown, yet we do not have any contact. Their minds have been so poisoned by their mother about me that their acknowleging that she was wrong would also mean that they were lied to by the only authorative figure in their lives while growing up. What is easier for a child to accept? What they had been indoctrinated with or the ugly truth? I would like this PhD explain that to me, citing actual cases and not the feminist-inspired diatribe in the videos.
If the naysayers want to associate claims of Parental Alienation with nonpayment of child support, why won't they support legislation tying visitation to support? No visitation, no support, no matter who is responsible for what, with no accruage of arrears. Perhaps because it would be a double edge sword, making people responsible for their actions. My God, we wouldn't want that now, would we!
September 29th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Name Calling said:
“So all you can do is reost to name-calling? The "plant"”
That could hardly be an act of “name calling” – it was a perfectly legitimate descriptor for the role played by the participant (in this cheap, emotive, Jerry Springeresque FOX day-time TV melodrama posing as a “talk” show). Just as Glenn could have been referred to as “guest” and the Mike and Juliet as “hosts”. You cannot call the women in the audience a “guest” because she was not – she was, rather obviously to anyone who has more than two neurons to rub together, a PLANT (a poorly-disguised vehicle for the “emotive” trap laid by the hosts – this is a common ploy used in day-time TV, aimed at its base-level viewers).
(NB, I have made the assumption that reost should have read “resort”).
September 29th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Nicely said Celia. Also thanks by the way for putting the cap on that ABA thread we debated on a few weeks back.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
I have a question about Holly-Ann Collins whose daughter was in the audience. The link in a previous post stated she fled to the Netherlands. In that article was this quote "Collins had custody of a third child, who had a different father and was born after her divorce." Did this man also lose his visitation with his child due to her choice to break the law? Did he lose 14 years old seeing his child grow up? what did he do wrong to deserve that? Where is he and what is his story. I have had computer problems so I have not been able to see the clip,. Humor me if the answer is in there.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Addendum:
Further to my comment above, I must confess to a measurable dislike for our propensity to turn such serious issues, as this one, into “entertainment” - replete with the audience “plant” and shocking tales of fractured skulls.
I fully understand that this singularly unsophisticated populist choreography might be a necessary “vehicle” (and perhaps the only effective means(?)) to get the “broader community" (for lack of a better (or more offensive) term) to engage in issues deeper than Britney or Lindsay’s latest self-indulgence but . . . without overanalyzing this, I guess the word “cheap”, with its myriad of connotations, comes to mind.
Despite that, I admire the manner in which Glenn always, just as in this case, so effectively deals with his detractors – with “élan”. Good job Glenn – you were, understandably, far more accommodating to Geritoldo than I would have been.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
David said:
“Also thanks by the way for putting the cap on that ABA thread we debated on a few weeks back.”
Hi David. Yep, I couldn’t let it go. It was great to see some others coming in there as well!
September 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
"It wasn't until I watched this video back in Los Angeles that I realized that he had not meant that it was almost always the husband leaving the wife. During the show I jumped on him for that, explaining that the vast majority of divorces are initiated by women. I now realize that what I said there was not fair.
Glenn:
You have confessed and now your sin is forgiven, and Oh, by the way, your self-perceived error is not a drop of water in all the oceans of the world, compared to all the vilification of innocent males that goes on in the mass media every day.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Fathertime Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 4:22 am
You are stupid to make any ANY statement using the terms ALL, NEVER, ALWAYS, and other general statements that don't take into account REALITY!
EXAMPLE #1
My ex was physically abusive and at times when I type certain words, letters might get reversed or not typed due to the remnants of the abuse.
Reality CHECK. You type faster than you think, or you don't think, or you can't spell very well, or you are uneducated. But don't blame your brain tick on physical abuse from the 1950's.
I now label you "Troll" and will ignore you for my well being.
___________________________________________________________
Okay MORE name calling, and stating facts not in evidence (1950's?) I wasn't a glimmer in my daddy's eye then so lol@u. Try more than 2 decades laters goof. And the abuse I am speaking of is recent (within the last 3 years - I am partially paralyzed having lost use of part of my hand). Doctors have said the progression will probably be slower if I leave it alone rather than have surgery.
And to answer another poster on here about post dissolution attacks - I was attacked post dissolution. This was witnessed by 30+ people, in fact one gentleman offered to come to my aid right there. That was better odds than I had while the doofus and I were still married - nobody offered to help.
And Father Time one last thing - I name you abuser and refuse to engage any longer with your ilk.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
DCR Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Planted -
"PAS or PA is mainly used by accused abusers to try to continue to control the victim mother. "
Guys/Gals - Planted is prolly a member of the Battered Mother's Custody Conference in Albany NY. They have been spewing lies for years about how abusive men ALWAYS get custody. Her terminiolgy falls right in line with theres and nothing you say will matter.
______________________________________________________________
What is this battered mothers custody conference? I only learn what I read from researching the internet, when I faced the allegation of alienation. Child protection workers found abuse, batterers counselors found abuse, and the judges found abuse. And the abuse was from him to me - not in reverse. Against my better judgment our child saw her father at every single visit save one. And that no-show was communicated early enough to reschedule.
I could point out several grammatical and spelling errors in his paragraph but I won't.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
roy said
"Anybody recall the big TV special where Geraldo Rivera cracked open Al Capone's secret Chicago vault on live TV on April 27, 1986?
He found NOTHING and wasted two hours of air time!"
Actually he found a few empty beer bottles and some trash. That's why I called him "Geraldo 'The Beer-Bottle Exhumer' Rivera" above.
I wonder what the beer bottles sold for at auction?
September 29th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
If the naysayers want to associate claims of Parental Alienation with nonpayment of child support, why won't they support legislation tying visitation to support? No visitation, no support, no matter who is responsible for what, with no accruage of arrears. Perhaps because it would be a double edge sword, making people responsible for their actions. My God, we wouldn't want that now, would we!
________________________________________________________________
Than lets also tie support to visitation. Oh but we cannot do that because most of your gripes are not about seeing your child or being that child's parent - it is about having to give the witch of an ex wife any money.
I call a spade a spade.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
"most of your gripes are not about seeing your child or being that child's parent "
are you reading the same people above feeling miserable about being away from their child?
September 29th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Geraldo and Montel are the same, they are always kissing womens' asses.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Name Calling,
Interesting quote of DCR. Had you not omitted the last half of DCR's comment it would be more apparent that he was commenting on your position regarding PAS and not your personal story which you applied it to.
----------------------
Stop calling people names.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Name Calling Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 3:33 am
PAS/PA is junk, bogus aimed only to help abusers and hurt the victims (mostly women and the children).
=====================
My apologies at 4am I missed this the first time . . .
When you mention 2/3 of anything is will be "MOSTLY." Mind boggling how we exaggerate to make things look worse than they are.
There seems to be no complaints from you when "mostly women and children" benefits you like abandoning ship.
So I could say that vindictive women victimize MOSTLY men and children.
b
September 29th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Name Calling Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 3:33 am
Again we have to resort to name calling. This is always the first tool in an abusers toolbox.
As far as my typoes - I have explained that in the past. My ex was physically abusive and at times when I type certain words, letters might get reversed or not typed due to the remnants of the abuse. I see plenty of men on here with typoes and nobody corrects them or tries to humiliate them. This is another abuser tactic (we now have 1.name calling, 2. humiliation, 3. intimidation). What else will we add?
1, Calling people abusers because they disagree with you.
Reacting to what you consider name calling with terrible labels while playing innocent victim. Falsely accusing people of name calling for describing your behaviour.
2, Abusers place blame on others --- TYPOES is a spelling error not a typo -- someone else is the cause.
"I wasn't a glimmer in my daddy's eye then so lol@u." (Humiliation)
3, Agree or I'll label you an abuser. (Abuser tactic)
-------------------------------
Are men typo's the remnants of abuse?
-------------------------------
.("As far as my typoes - I have explained that in the past.")
Please direct me to were you have explained this to the present commenter's or in "the past" for that matter as this comment appears to be something we are expected to already be aware of.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Michael A.Claymore Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 7:18 am
Feminist Coward wrote...
“Puhhhleassse...........”
She misspelled please.
===========
I do not care that I disagree with "Name Calling" there is no room for the personal attack name calling on the posters here.
And "She misspelled please." Is the best that you have to comment on her post? “Puhhhleassse...........” I hope you are not serious.
b
September 29th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Lane Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Name Calling Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 3:33 am
-------------------------------
Are men typo's the remnants of abuse?
=========
Lane,
That was AWESOME!
b
September 29th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I am kind of sad this week because of Paul Newman's passing. I guess mortality even affects the immortals, eventually.
But when I watch Glenn on TV, he really reminds me of Newman's "Cool Hand Luke" character. Just bring it on! I'll be cool. He never ever to my knowledge has lost his composure.
"What we have here is a failure to communicate."
But to Glenn's credit, there is some communicating starting to occur.
Like the guy. Or not.
But respect his voice.
September 29th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
kenboiraq Says: In addition, who could forget Geraldo's grandstanding three-hour special into Al Capone's vault?
_________________
"We're still digging!!!" LOL
September 29th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
If only we could legally throw Geraldo out of this country the way he was thrown out of Iraq.
September 29th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Planted? Name Calling ad nauseum says:
____________________________
Nothing much. I see Jail Gamer is back.
September 29th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Pankaj Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 4:36 am
A lot of mothers alienate the fathers while being married to them too. It usually leads to the father feeling left out and knowing that he somehow the kids are poisoned against him.
_________________________
There are dozens of sitcom TV shows that revolve the entire show around this premise promoting it as "funny." Married With Children is one that comes to mind just now.
September 29th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
roy says: That would logically suggest that the powerful Evil Patriarchy has passed away and has been replaced by another ideology, right?
____________________
Right. They call it Grrrrl Power. LOL.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Celia Says: n this cheap, emotive, Jerry Springeresque FOX day-time TV melodrama posing as a “talk” show
_______________________
Just remember that back in the 1980's Geraldo hosted a show that was a Jerry Springeresque (possibly even before we knew of Jerry Springer) daytime TV melodrama posing as a "talk" show. Remember how Geraldo got his nose broken? LOL
September 29th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
"Geraldo and Montel are the same, they are always kissing womens' asses."
I have always loved women's asses.
Kissing them is usually very pleasant.
What is your point?
September 29th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
“I do not care that I disagree with "Name Calling" there is no room for the personal attack name calling on the posters here.’
And "She misspelled please." Is the best that you have to comment on her post? “Puhhhleassse...........” I hope you are not serious.”
Bernie, don’t be so weak. All this stuff you drop to make yourself seem tough and you’re still smarting over a recommendation to get a spell checker several weeks later. Man up, dude, and stop wasting my time with irrelevant and dishonest postings. Where is the dishonesty? In this bit...
“And "She misspelled please." Is the best that you have to comment on her post?’
For your edification i provide a selection of relevant arguments from the quoted post below, though I doubt your meager intellect will be able to understand what ive written.
“Again we resort to labeling men abusers due to a few words. If this is the litmus test then every feminist on the net is an abuser. And now, she goes into this interesting progression...”
“Then we get to intimidation and then it is the physical and sexual violence.”
Which is probably meant to draw a parallel between those of us who compare her kind to the early homos and those who commit far more serious transgressions. It’s a way of saying that under every man who says something women don’t want to hear there’s a rapist and batterer -feminist ideology at it’s worst.”
“I’ve said it to the men and ill say it to the trolls- the boxing ring is no place for someone with a glass jaw.”
By “men” I meant you Bernie. Don’t be such a wimp- political discourse is no place for old hens. And incidentally, if you think a few references to early hominids are mean, you obviously haven’t spent as much time amongst working class men as you claim to.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
"I am kind of sad this week because of Paul Newman's passing. "
Yeah, he was a truly righteous dude who did a lot for other people- acting was the least of his accomplishments.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
perspicacious --- that is cute!
Your GIRRRRRRRLLLLLLLLL power is over.
Use your intellect. Become a woman.
Was that too rude?
September 29th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Yes if you read just a little bit about Paul Newman, he was an incredible man.
He was handsome and talented and never cared that he had those advantages.
He made more money from his salad dressing than from his movies.
He never ever sought to promote his celebrity.
One of a kind.
September 29th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Troll Said:
"And Father Time one last thing - I name you abuser and refuse to engage any longer with your ilk."
"Spade a spade"
=========
Fork a spade, spoon a spade, and anything else that you want a spade.
Label me the abuser in my relationship? You know nothing of my relationship. But now I know how your statistics are not based on reality. Is it because I am experiencing PAS, that I am an abuser?
If I keep arguing with you, pretty soon I'll be a sex abuser, according to your standards.
September 29th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
FatherTime,
Don't forget that according to the Duluth Model Wheel, you are an abuser if you use "male privilege." Yes that is on the "wheel." Or you can simply "use intimidation" as mentioned on the wheel. I am sure that your argument with the troll will prove to be abusive by some stretch of the imagination. Good luck.
Bill C
September 29th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
roy Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
perspicacious --- that is cute!
Your GIRRRRRRRLLLLLLLLL power is over.
Use your intellect. Become a woman.
Was that too rude?
___________________
Nah. I can take at like a man (okay, not always but so far so good).
September 29th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
roy Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Yes if you read just a little bit about Paul Newman, he was an incredible man.
He was handsome and talented and never cared that he had those advantages.
My response: This is true. I had an old boyfriend who met Newman at an auto race. Newman was very down to earth and talked to my friend without putting on any airs of importance.
roy said: He made more money from his salad dressing than from his movies.
My response: He gave the profits from his food line to charity. BTW his salad dressing is delicious.
roy says: He never ever sought to promote his celebrity.
One of a kind.
My response: He certainly was. Unfortunately I will always remember that he died on my birthday. Such is life...
September 29th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Name Calling Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
If the naysayers want to associate claims of Parental Alienation with nonpayment of child support, why won't they support legislation tying visitation to support? No visitation, no support, no matter who is responsible for what, with no accruage of arrears. Perhaps because it would be a double edge sword, making people responsible for their actions. My God, we wouldn't want that now, would we!
________________________________________________________________
Than lets also tie support to visitation. Oh but we cannot do that because most of your gripes are not about seeing your child or being that child's parent - it is about having to give the witch of an ex wife any money.
I call a spade a spade.
BS! I've paid in a effort of good faith and it did nothing! I paid for a whole year straight and I still didn't get to see my kids so you and you're ideas can take a long walk off a short pier. Tie visitation to support and the whole situation gets better. That lets both sides know that bad behavior won't be accepted or rewarded. Geraldo is a Tool and I hope Connie divorces him and puts him through the wringer. I wish that on every mangina. I just want them to touch the hot stove they advocate for. Wasn't there a song? Something along the lines of money,money,money,money,.........money! Perhaps that should be the official song of the MRM.
September 29th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
"Money, it's a hit don't give me that do goody good bulls............................."
I like it FatherTime! LOL
Bill C
September 29th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Michael A.Claymore Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
=============
Your post is laughable. How many scars and calluses do you have on your hands? How many broken fingers from doing manual labor? How often have you ran into a building that everyone else was running out of and tolerated temperatures of 1200 degrees to get the job done including in training? How many times have you scaled a ladder caring 2 tons of material to do a roof? I started when I was about 10. No I did not carry the full hundred pound bundles of shingles back then but I did it. It was important to my father that I could keep him supplied so that he did not have to stop roofing. We did this as a side job to make ends meet. There are countless roofs in my town that have my fathers and my handy work on them.
How many times have you had a person die in your arms and in your care? How many times have you talked to them after they died because hearing is the last sense to go? You talked because if they could hear . . . you wanted their transition to be as smooth and the least frightening as possible.
Tough? You bet but not in the way an insecure heterosexual male of the 20th century like you are, I go home and some times I cry, sometimes I drink, sometimes I yell, argue with God, and sometimes I am numb beyond what your imagination could ever grasp. Sometimes... ... I do all five ... especially when a child is involved [and a handful of these were fellow firemen and co-workers children] . . . and I still do this every day and have for over 27 years . . .THAT my friend is the kind of tough I am . . . how about you?
I am sure that this does not measure up to your type of toughness, but I do not care it measures up to mine. THAT is ALL that matters. So go and try to rustle some one else’s feathers with your elementary school antics and slights because you really do not bother me. What bothers me is the kind of person you are and I take pity on you.
Hurting from your opinion hardly, but it does seem that I struck a nerve with you since you knew EXACTLY whom I was talking about. Who is really hurting? People like you cannot hurt me.
You come off as envious that my short life has been so fulfilled with a myriad of experiences both good and bad and that I have survived them and that I have them to share and you do not.
I no more have to prove my "manhood" to you anymore than anybody else does. You have cyber muscles safe at 12,000 miles away, right? You live in Australia?
I am done holding my demeanor with you; you do not deserve it. I was only doing it for me anyway. Now I will also tell you this for me.
You are big bad and scary let me tell you.
You are one of the worse type of bullies and coward at the same time, safe behind your computer from thousands of miles away. Very brave of you.
I am the most honest person you will ever know.
Finally your reference for early hominids there is a time and a place and it seems to me and the rest here that it is your meager intellect that does not allow you to understand. Glenn has rules and there is also something-called debate decorum, which you also fail miserably.
b
September 29th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
As always egos get in the way.
September 29th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
""Tommy -- "Silberg is a blood-thirsty feminist who wants to further the subjugation of men under the current legal system of family law and divorce court."
You know, you are never going to get laid with that kind of attitude.
You need to find a kinder and gentler way of describing women.
I like to use terms like parasite, vampire, predator, raunch girls, etc.
You can call a woman any of these names and they will still go to bed with you.""
Roy -
I'm not interested in sleeping with a feminist. As a matter of fact, I would question my judgment if I even considered sleeping with a feminist. Besides, I wasn't referring to women in general. I was referring to feminists, who are repulsive people and have shady characteristics.
September 29th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Glenn,
They don't think PA is real? ...or it is a game dad's play? Send Rivera my way. I have 5 years worth of webcam calls with my little girl, parentally kidnapped 1200 miles away. I have 5 years of recorded telephone calls. (yes, it is legal in that state, and the court found her in contempt of denying visitation based on my recorded evidence, and warned her that "Keeping xxx away from Dad IS Parental Alienation which IS a form of child abuse)
I will play Rivera our little girl saying "I never wanna talk to you", and her mom telling her to hang up, rather than encourage the relationship. I will play the audio of mom telling our little girl, "tell Daddy you wanna come home", when she is with me. I'll show them on video what the mom does when it is my webcam visitation time--stopping our daughter from smiling, laughing, relaxing, and talking to me. I'll play the video where our daughter, with me, has a great conversation with her mom on webcam from my home, where I ENCOURAGE the relationship, then ends up in tears because her mother jumped on her, scolding her for nothing. Then, since my D loves to swim with me, there is the audio of her suddenly saying, "Daddy! I am never, never, never going swimming again!" --Her mom scared her to death by telling her she would get pool toe.
Rivera? Call me...bring Dr. Phil, too. My daughter is too young to see the show, so I shouldn't be accused of Parental Alienation by exposing the Parental Alienation. (funny, how that works...the abused get acused of abuse by exposing the abuse)
September 29th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
They claim that parental alienation doesn't exist, and they also claim that women never, ever lie about rape.
There simply is no such thing as a woman being a bad parent or lying in court, is there?
September 29th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
{For your edification i provide a selection of relevant arguments from the quoted post below, though I doubt your meager intellect will be able to understand what ive written. -Michael A. Claymore}
MAC, I'm surprised at you. Surely you don't expect us apes with our meager intellects to compete with your towering genius.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Mancan,
I think MCA was directing his comment at "Name Calling"
In case anyone hasn't noticed..this thread has pretty much devolved into a series of attacks...you guys let the intruder throw the whole conversation out of kilter. In fact that is one goal of those like her who visit our site, another example being jeana. Probably best to ignore them in the future.
September 30th, 2008 at 2:40 am
ManCan,
Hey thanks man! That was beautiful.
I appreciate you covering my back.
My real question is if we are such mental midgets then why is he even here, knowing that we will never be able to comprehend his infinite superior logic and intellect?
b
September 30th, 2008 at 2:44 am
And I'm still reeling from the outrageous telephone message that Alec Baldwin meant only for his 11-year old daughter, Ireland, to hear...but today, the angry, threatening words are being heard around the world after the voicemail was leaked to the press.
More than two-minutes in length, the dreadful diatribe is laced with insults and even, what seems the threat of violence.
As the father of a girl the same age as Ireland, I am stunned by Baldwin's words and believe they verge on child abuse. Admittedly, the message comes in the midst of the prolonged, public, ugly, custody fight over the 11-year old between Baldwin and ex-wife, Kim Bassinger.
But how this supposedly loving father thinks his hateful words will endear him to the daughter whose custody he seeks is beyond me.
His lawyers say the real culprit is Bassinger who allegedly leaked the message.
Her spokeswoman says the message speaks for itself.
She's right.
And so it goes.
September 30th, 2008 at 2:46 am
perspicacious Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
If only we could legally throw Geraldo out of this country the way he was thrown out of Iraq.
==============
Has anyone checked to see if he has his green card?
Anyone here from the USCIS [formally the INS]?
b
September 30th, 2008 at 5:50 am
Bernie Misiura Says:
September 30th, 2008 at 2:46 am
perspicacious Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
If only we could legally throw Geraldo out of this country the way he was thrown out of Iraq.
==============
Has anyone checked to see if he has his green card?
Anyone here from the USCIS [formally the INS]?
b
___________________________________________________________
Sorry not going to happen in anyone's lifetime - Geraldo is a US citizen born in NY NY. Guess that wrecks that train of thought huh?
September 30th, 2008 at 7:35 am
Bernie, your post is evidence of an unbelievably fragile state, so I will just correct some things then leave you to your apparently numerous woes.
All your claims about having had a hard life are irrelevant as we have no evidence that any of your claims are true. Nonetheless you are pretty damaged, for whatever reason.
“ So go and try to rustle some one else’s feathers”
You attacked me. Remember? I didn’t write anything to you or about you, I just hit back when you came after me.
“ What bothers me is the kind of person you are and I take pity on you.”
I don’t know what kind of person you are, but I will echo the pity bit, and in my case without sarcasm.
“Hurting from your opinion hardly, “
More than a month later you are still whining about this so-called roasting that I wrote on your blog...
“Try running your text through Word’s spellchecker before posting it- most people look at spelling this bad, think “The guy’s an id--t” and stop reading. Why do you think mine is the first response to this post?”
Think about it. Would the others I’ve fought with even give a damn about something so slight? The vehemence of your response suggests that I got far more under your skin than you care to admit. Personally, I don’t even remember what that particular clash was about, much less what you did or didn’t write.
“but it does seem that I struck a nerve with you since you knew EXACTLY whom I was talking about.”
I knew because mine was the only comment on there- hence you must have been referring to me.
“ People like you cannot hurt me. “
Bernie, everyone and everything can hurt you. It is not normal to get this upset. Stop and think- has anyone else I’ve tangled with felt the need to bring it up in an unrelated conversation a month later? Your attack on me wasn’t even prompted by an attack on you but on the trolls- it is not normal to react this way.
“You are one of the worse type of bullies and coward at the same time,”
You called me out, I hit back and now you claim I am a bully. Hitting back is not bullying, and neither is attacking feminist trolls who say vile things about men, or attacking psychopathic men who make excuses for lethal violence against boys who sleep with their daughters, or idiots who think rape should be treated as insignificant.
In fact, now that you’ve made me think about it, I’ve been too easy on the psychos around here. Its cruel to the enemy, and so I didn’t want to go there, but all these ad homs take up a lot of my time and are not as damaging as the more time-efficient logical analyses. I have tried to hold back, but it’s wasting my time, so from now on Ambrose Bierce is out the door and C. Auguste Dupin is in the house.
“safe behind your computer from thousands of miles away. Very brave of you.”
You are also behind a computer thousands of miles away, so by your so-called reasoning you also are a coward. Also, what are you suggesting here? That you would beat the tar out of me if you could? Now that, Bernie, is truly manly of you, but only in the worst sense of the word. I suppose since you cant handle me psychologically and intellectually you have to resort to making physical threats. I may be wrong in that, but I don’t see how our “safe behind your computer” is relevant otherwise.
“Glenn has rules and...”
Yes, and when I go over what he sees as the line he deletes them, just like with everyone else. If he doesn’t delete them, its probably safe to say they are still within the rules.
“called debate decorum, which you also fail miserably.”
When dining among apes I feel free to eat with my hands.
(That’s the last of Ambrose Bierce- I promise.)
“My real question is if we are such mental midgets then why is he even here, knowing that we will never be able to comprehend his infinite superior logic and intellect?”
This assumes that I am here for you and your ilk, and that this place is inhabited only by idiots. For all my intellectual chest-beating, I have never implied that everyone here is an idiot- you have.
In closing, I truly think you are in a delicate state and need professional help, so from now on when you are stupid enough to call me out I will simply ask you in a soft voice to go take your meds. Or at least, that’s what I will try to do.
I will cut and paste that at the top of the page, as a reminder not to play with your glass menagerie.
September 30th, 2008 at 7:40 am
mancan wrote..
“For your edification i provide a selection of relevant arguments from the quoted post below, though I doubt your meager intellect will be able to understand what ive written. -Michael A. Claymore}
MAC, I'm surprised at you. Surely you don't expect us apes with our meager intellects to compete with your towering genius.”
That is implicit in the quote you gave, so clearly I don’t expect you to compete with my superior but alas not genius level intellect. Poor mancan, you don’t even have the fragility of Bernie to protect you.
September 30th, 2008 at 8:21 am
I saw the show and thought Glenn did an excellent job of making his point. It's too bad they had just a few minutes to discuss such a crucial problem.
Nearly anybody that has gone through a divorce can totally understand the frustration and heartache that drove Alec Baldwin's unfortunate comments to his daughter, which he strongly regretted. Mommy Dearest Kim is the one that made it public in total disregard for her daughter's feelings.
My son and grandson are victims of PAS, and I know of many others. When one parent is given all rights and all power there's usually going to be a lot of problems- it's human nature to abuse power. The Family court system is suppose to keep checks and balances on that power, but has failed most fathers and children totally because judges turn fathers into visitors and then won't even bother to enforce their own court orders.
I wasn't surprised at Rivera's attack on fathers since that's his way. I did think it ironic that they had HIM giving his (expert?) opinion, given his past record- married 5 times, divorced 4 times, with 5 kids.
He can afford the child support, some fathers can't. That makes him a better father? I doubt that very much! Money shouldn't dictate a father's right to love and care for his child.
I won't be watching The Morning Show with Mike and Juliet any more when they have Geraldo on, I have a weak stomach.
September 30th, 2008 at 9:11 am
I see the issues as raised by Planted and Name Calling in a certain way. My rebuttal against there raised issues are:
A) Even if this story about the abused mother running to the Netherlands is true (which I have one reason to doubt) you can't extrapolate onto the entire group of NCP's who claim the custodial parent used these tactics. You can't say they're ALL ABUSERS using under-handed tactics because of this one instance. That wouldn't be anymore accurate than if I were to point to OJ Simpson and said all black men want to marry white women and beat them to death when they try to leave. Or point to Mary Winkler and Clara Harris and said all middle aged women kill there husbands.
B) I have one reason to doubt this case. And that is the fact that the dad won custody. In the prevalent female-friendly family courts I find it hard to believe that the courts could come back with a positive "finding of abuse" against the father and still award custody to him. Of course thanks to the fact that family courts are secret courts (the better to trample dad's constitutional rights) just like witch courts of salem none of us will know for sure.
C) When MRA's bring up real cases of injustice, the feminists seem to want to bring forth pariah's who are living proof that the MRA argument is BS and actually a tactic to rob loving competent decent mothers of custody/rights. This was the case in PBS's special "Breaking the Silence". This "special" which tried to lay the groundwork for proving many fathers fighting for custody and winning (using claims of PAS) were actually abusers. The main "pariah" used in this special was Shockholme. Well as the evidence comes to light, she lost custody because SHE was the violent one, and also the bad parent.
I think feminists need to start reviewing their pariah's a little more closely.
D) Name Calling and/or Plant mentioned (something like) all these cases are going to be re-decided based on PAS being debunked. HOW OLD do you think the theory of PAS has been applied to family court? I MYSELF have only heard about in within the last couple years (and I have my ear to the ground on men's issues). I've also only heard of it being used SUCCESSFULLY in a handful of cases. How exactly do you expect this big tsunami of over-turned cases, when there has only been a handful of cases won? lol!
That sums up my points.
September 30th, 2008 at 11:22 am
[...] Glenn Debates Parental Alienation on Fox Morning Show (Video) September 28th, 2008 by Glenn Sacks I appeared on Fox's nationally-syndicated Morning Show with Mike and Juliet Thursday to debate Geraldo Rivera and Dr. Joy Silberg over the issue of Parental Alienation. Rivera puts the blame for post-divorce strife squarely on fathers. Silberg is Vice President of the Leadership Council, an organization which is in the forefront of fighting against fathers' access to their children during custody disputes. The Leadership Council believes that Parental Alienation is a "batterers' tactic" and "junk science." Also on the show were Bill and Sam Sears, a father-son combo who have dealt with Parental Alienation. Only 17, Bill was credible and remarkably even-handed. I'll be discussing Bill and Sam and some of the other aspects of Parental Alienation in posts throughout the week. Silberg said that fathers blaming mothers for being alienated from their children is like a bank robber who denies robbing a bank, blaming it on "bankteller delusional syndrome." I replied, "Separating a father from his children and not allowing him to him see his children and telling them that the father is bad and that you shouldn't want to be with him, that's really a very serious thing. It's not like 'bankteller delusional syndrome.'" The most heated moment of the day came when Geraldo Rivera told me:What you're not talking about is how many of these fathers stopped paying child support...It's always financial 95% of the time [after divorce]...the husbands' stop paying, the woman is desperate...it's about the money...you should really call it 'Parental Stiffing Alienation Syndrome' because that's what it is. I shot back that the child support establishment's own studies show that the overwhelming majority of men who are behind on their child support are low income fathers. I do have to give Geraldo credit for one thing. On the show he said "It's always financial...95% of the time it's the husband leaving the wife or the wife leaving the husband." He said the part about the wife leaving in a lower voice so I thought he said that 95% of the time it's the husband who abandons the wife -- a common view among chivalrous males like Geraldo. It wasn't until I watched this video back in Los Angeles that I realized that he had not meant that it was almost always the husband leaving the wife. During the show I jumped on him for that, explaining that the vast majority of divorces are initiated by women. I now realize that what I said there was not fair. Another aspect of this is the use of the term "syndrome," which is controversial in and of itself. In general I simply refer to "Parental Alienation," but many in the media and the opposition refer to "Parental Alienation Syndrome." Alienating behaviors are harmful, whatever name you want to use. To watch the video of the show, click here for the first segment and here for the second, or see below. ~ A man needs a woman like a lion needs a stove. ~ ~ Women deserve only equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. ~ ~ Men are not collectively "guilty" of anything. ~ ~ Never needing to be pregnant is a blessing. ~ ~ Feminist ideology men have to respect women, but women have no reason to respect men ~ ~ Everybody makes choices, and nobody should be entitled to special treatment because of those choices. Equal results based on unequal treatment amounts to no kind of equality at all. ~ [...]
September 30th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Michael A. Claymore: Does Bernie just have a larger item than you or what? You seem to be pretty insecure about him or you wouldn't be resorting to such childish insults.
September 30th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
{You called me out, I hit back and now you claim I am a bully. Hitting back is not bullying, and neither is attacking feminist trolls who say vile things about men, or attacking psychopathic men who make excuses for lethal violence against boys who sleep with their daughters, or idiots who think rape should be treated as insignificant.}
You keep bringing up the pipe thread. So be it. I've said this already MAC, but if I catch you naked and ejaculating in my underaged daughter's bed, I just might hit you in the head with a pipe. As much as you may feel that you have a right to sneak into dads' homes and deflower their daughters not all of us agree. There are other people who had opinions on that subject, and the only one who is fixated on it as you.
The boy didn't die, as was explained to you ad nauseum elsewhere; nor does anybody support decriminalizing rape, as you have falsely implied ad nauseum. As usual you're exactly what you accuse other people of being: a liar, a glass house, a psychopathic pinhead.
September 30th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
I have never really understood the concept of a "troll."
Because when you use that label, you are defining yourself as somehow unable to reply to them or debate. Like you are being oppressed by listening to a different voice.
So what if they want to disrupt a web site or blog?
Why should I care?
Personally, I believe so-called "trolls" are MRA's best friends.
Because they can teach if you want to learn.
Unfortunately, they have Constitutional rights and cannot just be shot. ;-)
September 30th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Duhhhhhhhhhhh Says:
September 30th, 2008 at 5:50 am
Bernie Misiura Says:
September 30th, 2008 at 2:46 am
perspicacious Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
If only we could legally throw Geraldo out of this country the way he was thrown out of Iraq.
==============
Has anyone checked to see if he has his green card?
Anyone here from the USCIS [formally the INS]?
b
___________________________________________________________
Sorry not going to happen in anyone's lifetime - Geraldo is a US citizen born in NY NY. Guess that wrecks that train of thought huh?
==============
Hey Duhhhhhhhhhhh MAC,
It was a joke, who has a meager intellect?
b
September 30th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
What annoys me most about him is the way he belittles men's issues by distorting comments that MRAs make. For example, he keeps saying "rape is insignificant" over and over again as if there is no such thing as a false rape accusation epidemic in this country.
Apparently he has no problem with a legal system that treats false rape accusations as insignificant or non-existent, but becomes outraged when somebody points out the obvious: that a drunk girl getting raped at a party isn't as bad as an innocent man serving 25 years for a crime he didn't commit.
Or maybe he's anti-male just long enough to help him win a pissing contest on a blog with other MRAs, and pro-male the rest of the time.
September 30th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
MAC,
Re: September 30th, 2008 at 7:35 am
Do you feel better now that you have had the last word or would you like me to retort all the lies you said about me?
Umm who started and who hit back? It greatly concerns me when a person cannot remember what he wrote and when. This reeks of a troll that just likes to stir the pot for the sake of doing so, changing their beliefs to accomplish this and accusing others of what in reality THEY are doing.
I believe it was YOU who started with something like "Bernie has been riding his motorcycle with out his helmet again." I refrained from insults directed at you for quite some time after this juvenile behavior of yours until yesterday.
Everyone here knows that you cannot lie your way out of this one.
Yes, I experience many woes but I have explained my coping mechanisms, this is a healthy thing to do. It is a shame that you have to try and depose my life experiences, as I said before I am the most honest person that you will ever meet. I could not make up the stories that I convey because frankly I am not that creative at telling stories.
Sorry MAC you attacked me long ago about not wearing a helmet and I retorted. Again everyone knows that but what ever helps you sleep at night. MAC you facetious? Never crossed my mind.
You are gravely mistaken if you think that I was whining about your roasting, I was actually commenting to “Name Calling” how mean spirited people can be so forget about it.
Remember YOU are the one that went out of his way to not only attack me personally here but you went to my blog to do it there also. The evidence as to your intent on my blog is obvious. You had absolutely nothing to say about the subject matter, you just found fault with my typos. It seems pretty evident to me what you were doing. It hurts me so gravely that your post remains on my site. You being the first poster on that subject proves NOTHING duhhhh it is a free blog so it does not hit well on search engines, but I do not have to explain that to you because you are an intellectual.
Yep, you are under my skin like any comedian I like, I enjoy you for the pure entertainment value [please forgive me for any spelling errors because today I am using my laptop on my lap and I am chuckling so hard that the computer is shaking]. There goes your upset over you theory.
As far as your claim to an unrelated post it was not, because you started attacking her also and I was just telling her how mean spirited people can be. You state how smart you are and can figure that out without me telling you this, can’t you?
Attacking a boy with lethal violence and treating rape as insignificant? Are you serious? Here is the gaping hole in your theory: the father thought that IS what was happening, RAPE. Yet our defense of his actions is treating rape as insignificant? WOW, you say you are smarter that that. I believe it was you that said if he were my son you would go and kill the father after the incident was over, and that is not psychopathic. Hmmm.
YOU have been too easy on psychos? You are right, look in the mirror.
I am not the coward because I was not the one that started flinging personal attacks. Anyone who has been here long enough knows that I am not known for doing this.
I have made physical threats? Even with your intellect you should know that is a reach, as everyone else here knows. Intellectually challenged by you? I feel like I am shooting fish in a barrel, you are right I am sorry, I should not do that because it is not fair to you. My physical stature is enough to know that if I have to, and cannot talk the other person out of it, that I know I can defend myself. I think you are making a statement about yourself here.
As far as Glenn’s rules and not deleting you rude comments and name calling, as smart as you are you should know that the sear number of posts makes it impossible for him to catch everything. Especially the sear number of times you do this.
You dine with apes? Go figure, that explains a LOT!
You are the one who asserts the claims that this blog is inhabited only by idiots, again as smart as you are you know that I was stating that you said that not me. Nice attempt at a skirt though.
Professional help and meds? Are you giving us insight to you again? I am sorry I will try to refrain from my in your face honesty from now on. You know . . .that shooting fish in a barrel stuff again. If I ever forget PLEASE do not hesitate to remind me.
Finally, people who do not matter to me and who opinions I do not value cannot hurt me in fact they amuse me, no matter what you my think.
b
September 30th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
ManCan,
Thanks again, that was very good.
b
September 30th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
PAS is real and thriving. My ex abducted our son to Denmark to alienate us and she was forced to allow my 3.5 year old son to return home. Then she started her attack against me to eradicate me from my son's iife. I can prove this beyond a shadow of doubt. Each week she dreams up some other tactic to build the wall higher and higher... We were divorced 5 years ago....
September 30th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
PAS is real and everybody knows it. geraldo is a shill for legitimizing money through the court. it's easy for the rich to make payments of money. they ahave money. many people don't. the rich never miss a meal. the poor struggle beyond geraldo's understanding. he is highly unqualified to be a part of a show like this. he is either ingnorant or a liar. anyone who denies the reality of PAS does so because it suits their own need to justify their unholy behavior. shame on anyone you would alienate any child from a loving parent and shame on a court that empowers an abuser. PAS is child abuse. the family court endorses this abuse every day. they abuse their power to maximize support payments that if their is anyone left that doesn't know this, are matched back to the court by federal tax dollars. every tax payer pays this. in 2007 the bill to the fed was 118 billion dollars. that's the dollar cost of this lie that PAS has no validity. the social and emotional cost to the children and parental victims is inestimable. everybody knows this and everybody knows it's true. some just don't like it because they enjoy the benefits of it's abuse. we have a name for these people. everybody knows that too.
September 30th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
@Glenn Sacks
"I shot back that the child support establishment's own studies show that the overwhelming majority of men who are behind on their child support are low income fathers."
So are you saying that low income fathers are the fathers who deserve to be alienated from their children because they're the ones most likely to be in child support areas?
I don't think the inferences that can be drawn from this response will evoke a sympathietic view of fathers.
September 30th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Karl Rudisill -- welcome to PAS Hell.
You might have to take a long view and ask yourself, what kind of relationship do I wish to have with my kids in 20 years?
If you play your ex-wife's game at this moment, the courts will make sure that you lose.
Play a different game. She can't be that hard to outsmart, right?
September 30th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
perspicacious -- "Nah. I can take at like a man (okay, not always but so far so good)."
Girl, when did I ever ask you to "take" anything?
That is such an unfair accusation.
All I have ever asked you to do is write with complete honesty.
If you want me to threaten you, we will need a pre-nup.
September 30th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Would it be over the top to suggest that Glenn's site is hosting a growing population of some truly interesting female voices?
I believe it is a very early signal that women are starting to pay attention to the men's and father's movement.
I still do not understand how my brilliant and beautiful twenty-something daughters think.
I'm pretty sure I never will.
September 30th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
roy says: If you want me to threaten you, we will need a pre-nup.
_______________
I'm certain my husband would object to that.
September 30th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
roy says: I believe it is a very early signal that women are starting to pay attention to the men's and father's movement.
______________________
I've been posting on these issues for almost 10 years on usenet. It's nothing new to me. Unfortunately usenet is pretty much dead these days. We used to have some great discussions there.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:42 am
Bernie,
I guess I'm a mental midget too because I don't see why MAC is doing you down..he's supposed to be enlightened enough to avoid this sex-typical behaviour (re: the male dominance hierarchy)..apparently he's trying to assert his "high status" withing the MR community here!
October 1st, 2008 at 6:04 am
RAPE is no more significant than any other crime against the person, including the crime of being falsely accused of it.. I welcome the challenge from any knight in shining armour who'd like to mount his rocking and battle me for saying so.
October 1st, 2008 at 11:37 am
perspicacious --- you could become a polygamous female. That would solve both your husband's objections and my frustrations.
You have all the power of feminist choice, and you should use it.
Much respect to your husband. If he can handle you, that is either a miracle or just sympathy on your part.
Seriously, there is nothing more critical to preserving a marriage than complete fidelity.
If you have achieved that, then you are wise.
October 1st, 2008 at 11:57 am
roy says: You have all the power of feminist choice, and you should use it.
___________________________
Why should I use it?
Yes, I know I could easily use the feminist tools available to all women. But morally I find that "choice" to be a corrupt and a repulsive one. When push came to shove and I could have legally bilked my first husband out of $11,000 he didn't owe me in family court, I just couldn't make myself do it. Not even for the money which was a lot of money to me back then.
Why am I different from the other female horror stories about what women do to men? I don't know. I've long thought it might have to do with the fact my own father ran out on me when I was a very little girl. I never had a daddy. I was never his or anyone else's "little princess." Sometimes daddies spoil their daughters to the detriment of other men and possibly all of society. Many of the earlier feminists were raised as wealthy daddy's girls...as virtual princesses. I don't think that should be overlooked.
Sometimes people appreciate that which they themselves never had. Maybe that's why I see the great importance of fathers in childrens' lives...because I didn't have one. Who knows for sure? However, even though they are few in number there are other women out there who think as I do on men's rights.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Glenn:
THANKS FOR HAVING THE BALLS TO DEFEND CHILDREN ON LIVE TV!
I wish media would refer to you as a Child advocate not "Fathers Rights" - latter is too abused [abuse - go figure] by the Women are good - All Men are bad psycho camp.
Thanks again - you did well,
NYSteve
October 1st, 2008 at 1:52 pm
# Jules Says:
September 30th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
@Glenn Sacks
"I shot back that the child support establishment's own studies show that the overwhelming majority of men who are behind on their child support are low income fathers."
So are you saying that low income fathers are the fathers who deserve to be alienated from their children because they're the ones most likely to be in child support areas?
I don't think the inferences that can be drawn from this response will evoke a sympathietic view of fathers.
------------
Jules you walked away pulling down the total opposite of Glenn's implication with the statement about low income fathers. That was kind of a remarkable feat.
I (and I'm sure everybody else on this board) saw the implied message as: far from the deadbeat father who CAN pay but DOESN'T, the fact that most arrearages are owed by poverty-stricken dads means they shouldn't be punished over arrearages as THEY HAVE **NO** ABILITY TO PAY.
How you walked away with the concept that you did I have no idea.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Glenn, I don't know how you can stand to sit on a stage and put up with that crap. Frustrating doesn't even begin to describe it.
Something the Psychologist or whatever she was said - along the lines of "studies show that children say they don't want to see the other parent because of the behavior of that parent..."
Ken said this: I will play Rivera our little girl saying "I never wanna talk to you", and her mom telling her to hang up, rather than encourage the relationship. I will play the audio of mom telling our little girl, "tell Daddy you wanna come home", when she is with me. I'll show them on video what the mom does when it is my webcam visitation time--stopping our daughter from smiling, laughing, relaxing, and talking to me. I'll play the video where our daughter, with me, has a great conversation with her mom on webcam from my home, where I ENCOURAGE the relationship, then ends up in tears because her mother jumped on her, scolding her for nothing. Then, since my D loves to swim with me, there is the audio of her suddenly saying, "Daddy! I am never, never, never going swimming again!" --Her mom scared her to death by telling her she would get pool toe.
My guess is Ken's daughter could end up being one of those kids who would say she doesn't want to see her daddy because of his behavior. But what the psychologist is missing is the fact that Ken's daughter was indoctrinated so young, she doesn't know that it's mommy's position, not her own.
Sure, kids probably do believe they don't want to see the other parent due to that parent's behavior. The problem is, that idea has been planted and they don't even know it. Falls along the lines of the Stokholm Syndrome.
Ken, your kid and mine could be one in the same.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:10 pm
NYSteve: I wish media would refer to you as a Child advocate not "Fathers Rights"
Exactly! We've seen how Glenn has taken the lesbian social mother angle, furthering the argument for this renaming. And you're right, simply using the label Father engenders anger in the feminist camp (& vice versa).
Something to seriously think about, Glenn.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:39 pm
perspicacious ,
You are an honest woman.
I really can't dispute your opinions anymore.
Just keep writing.
October 1st, 2008 at 9:33 pm
I find Geraldo Rivera's comments on Parental Alienation to be ill-informed and not constructive to productive dialog. Mr. Rivera asserts that "95% of the time" alienation is concocted to justify not paying child support. It is unclear where Mr. Rivera is getting his information. However, for the benefit of Mr. Rivera, let's set the facts straight.
According to the latest statistics compiled by the U.S. Census Bureau (available at http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/childsupport/cs05.html):
1. 90% of those paying child support are fathers.
2. More than 90% of the total child support paid nationwide each year is paid by fathers.
3. In the relatively few cases where actually ordered to pay child support, mothers are more likely than fathers to be either delinquent in payments, or to have made no support payments at all.
To be clear, the overwhelming share of child support costs are paid by fathers, and fathers are also less likely to be "deadbeat" parents than are mothers. To insinuate that alienation is simply a scheme (by fathers) to avoid paying child support is at best, ignorant of the facts and reprehensible to responsible parents everywhere. It serves only to perpetuate negative stereotyping, and makes the already arduous task of getting this issue out of the shadows and into public discussion even more difficult.
Mothers and fathers alike owe it to our children to encourage Mr. Rivera and his colleagues in the media to become better educated about this subject, and to use their positions in a more responsible manner.
Let's all work together to ensure that our voices are heard!
October 1st, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Steve says: I find Geraldo Rivera's comments on Parental Alienation to be ill-informed and not constructive to productive dialog. Mr. Rivera asserts that "95% of the time" alienation is concocted to justify not paying child support. It is unclear where Mr. Rivera is getting his information. However, for the benefit of Mr. Rivera, let's set the facts straight.
________________
Back in the old days on usenet a group of us had an informal pact or maybe it was more of a rule. Anyone who made a claim and didn't substantiate it with a credible fact, cite, notation, link, etc. was automatically challenged to do so.
That rule taught me a lot about how to reasonably and rationally discuss matters. I learned I couldn't just make up stuff or rely on my *feelings* to argue my points. I probably don't always live up to it here, but if challenged, I would find proof to back up claims I make such as Geraldo did when he said that 95% of men charge PAS to avoid paying support and then supplied nada in the way of evidence that that remark was anything factual. I personally think he pulled it out of his arse on the spur of the moment.
We all know that Geraldo cannot back up that absurd comment with any valid proof. So why let him off of the hook for doing so? Tell him to put up or shut up...that is prove his stat is valid with proof or stop making the false claim.
The last thing the public should be doing is Geraldo's homework for him. We already know the facts here. If we find them FOR Geraldo, he's never going to be held accountable and he'll keep going on the boob tube and repeating these falsities. JMO.
October 2nd, 2008 at 12:29 am
Norman L. Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:42 am
Bernie,
I guess I'm a mental midget too because I don't see why MAC is doing you down..he's supposed to be enlightened enough to avoid this sex-typical behaviour (re: the male dominance hierarchy)..apparently he's trying to assert his "high status" withing the MR community here!
=============
Norman,
Yep, I have to agree with you, I find myself standing exactly where you are, as I am sure many other people here.
b
October 5th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
We must never shy away from using the term "father's rights advocate!"
October 5th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
How can we ever have a normal society again if we shy away from using the word "father" for fear of offending women?
December 31st, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Good grief.
Geraldo & Silberg; nothing but more of the smoke and mirrors.
Alleged rendering to "Success" via our now more modernly accepted metrics within the clever craft(s) of
Hate,
Discrimination,
And invigoration,
Of ill-will.
Welcome to our now more compassionate and enlightened "civil" communities.
As with any addict,
Public acknowledgement
Presents as the most important;
But difficult step.
(just ask the more enlightened of within the above staged "fix").
April 28th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
My son's wife stole his daughter after a 2nd b'day celebration for her at Disney. My son went back home to go to work in Georgia.His wife Falyn proceeded to Louisiana with her family.That wasn't unusual.She always visited her family. On Oct 1,2008. She called my son to tell him she wanted a separation.He told her to bring Lana back home. She refused.Instead she filed for divorce under Brenda Birner in less than two weeks.Her attorney broke the La. Divorce Law.Her attorney then brought it before Judge Robert Chaisson in St. Charles Parish,La. She was rendered a judgement in less than 2 months without my son being legally served. Her family is friends with the police and her mother,Faith says she is friends with the judge. However, Falyn got legally served on Nov.29,2008.Seven months later my son has not seen his daughter. She was in his life every day and every night for 2 years. She was kidnapped out of his life for selfish reasons. Within the first week after Fal left my son uncovered evidence that she had been committing adultery. She was cheating with his 41 yr old cousin Kevin who is a parolee and known meth user. Kevin was spending the night at my son's house from Aug-Sept 2008. My son overheard Kevin tell Fal in their kitchen that meth doesn't hurt children. Fal displayed symptoms of meth use. Kevin and Fal had vomiting and diahrrhea within a day of each other. Fal lost 20 lbs in a couple of weeks . She had always struggled with her weight as she was short in height. She was running off with Kevin for as many as 5 hrs at a time neglecting Lana.Fal put her desires to be with Kevin ahead of Lana.I believe Kevin and Fal were also drugging my son. We made a police report. They tried to give him somas for a headache. The police identified the pills for us.Fal goes to church and so does her family. What a twisted set of principles she has. Fal and her family is hiding behind a crooked court system in St. Charles Parish,La. It hurts me to see my son hurting and missing his little girl. As in her marriage Fal wants everything her way. She splashed it all over her my space that things were going to be on her terms. She wants her cake and ice cream. She wants Lana as a ransom for child support. My son just wants his little girl home where he has supported her always.There is so much more to this situation. Our family needs help to get Lana back home to her daddy. My dad was the nurturing and loving parent. A woman is not always the better parent because of her gender.
May 3rd, 2009 at 10:19 pm
I recently left a blog concerning my son Joshua Bacon. His wife Falyn seems like shes alienating him from his daughter more and more in the last couple of weeks. His only lifeline to Lana is the cellphone.That's been the only thing keeping him going.To be able to talk and connect to his child. This is cruel. He was not abusive to her. He did not drink or do drugs.She never did without anything necessary. She even took their $500 video camera with her. In seven months he has received about 6 pictures. Surely she could send videos and get a webcam.My son continues to pay an SBA loan in both their names and mortgage insurance in both their names. My other daughter-in-law recently sent my son 2 affidavits refuting Fal's lies. My son just posted on you tube under Father's Rights "trying to bring my little girl home" I would really like you to view that.My son in Lana's absence has bought her a rose petal cottage ,tinkerbell rug, a pink princess tv and many movies. Lana is being denied of these things because of Fal. My son has not seen Lana in 7 months.We really need public exposure of this situation because of the fraud and false allegations and bias from the judge. I am tired of seeing my son's spirits crushed. This is a never ending hardship on me as well. It's time for equal rights for father's. Sincerely, Denise Bacon