Madonna Plays Victim in Divorce Battle
October 20th, 2008 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & Families
It doesn't matter how wealthy, powerful and privileged a woman is, in divorce some women still love to play the victim. Latest case in point--Madonna.
Madonna is worth an estimated $850 million. Whatever one thought of her music and her racy image, she is in many ways the model of the empowered modern woman--a successful businesswoman who rose from nowhere to become rich and famous.
She has her own career, has flitted in and out of countless romantic relationships with both men and women at her own choosing, has had kids and adopted them at her own choosing, done admirable charity work, and in 2000 chose to marry English filmmaker Guy Ritchie.
Now, eight years later, guess what? She's a victim.
According to the UK Telegraph:
Lawyers for the singer, who was widely believed to be the dominant partner in the marriage, are putting together a dossier of incidents.
They include allegations that he told her she 'looked like a granny' on stage compared with her younger backing dancers. He is also alleged to have declared that she could not act, and was 'past it' after she turned 50.
Her lawyers say that 40-year-old Ritchie's comments made Madonna feel worthless, unattractive, unfeminine, insecure and isolated during their eight-year marriage.
The Mail has learned that Madonna's case will chronicle how she first fell for Ritchie because she felt he was a challenge and that he was tough enough to stand up to her.
However, she apparently soon started to become affected by her husband's alleged put-downs which eventually started to eat away at her legendary confidence.
"Worthless, unattractive, unfeminine, insecure and isolated"--and it's all his fault. I doubt that Ritchie said any of these things, at least not in the way Madonna describes, but they're being used to publicly blacken him.
Ritchie's father, instead of buying into Madonna's fake victim routine, has defended his son. He says:
She is being beastly. She is saying, 'Did you ever love me?'...She's calling him an emotional retard. When he's being bashed by her it's horrid."
Madonna de facto referred to Ritchie as an "emotional retard" at a recent conference.
Madonna's claims of what Ritchie said about her looks remind me of the Clara Harris case.
While a divorce case (Madonna) is a million miles from a murder trial (Clara Harris), in both cases the women sought to strengthen their positions in upcoming litigation by portraying themselves as victims of caddish husbands who denigrated their looks.
In the Harris case, the effect was to create sympathy for "poor Clara," desperate to save her marriage through exercise and a boob job. To learn more, see my column In Defense of David Harris (LewRockwell.com, 3/4/03).
Apparently Madonna wants to have another child--an extraordinarily selfish thing to do at age 50, when the baby would be at great risk.
I will give her points for one thing, though--apparently she's not planning on moving with the kids back to New York, but will stay in London.
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October 20th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Sad. Madonna is one of the last women I would have expected to go their with all of her wealth, power, and experience.
Disgusting.
October 20th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
This is delicious. It must be killing her to play victim but that is what lawyers insist on in divorce court- the woman is the victim no matter what. She is now free to screw A-Rod...
October 20th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
But does he deserve 50 millions bucks just for being there? I don't think so. These tactics are surely the work of her lawyers, who are doing what works: playing the victim.
October 20th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
BTW Guy Ritchie is right- she is making a fool of herself at 50. Mutton passing for lamb...
October 20th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
What do you expect from the material girl?
October 20th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
...Grandmadonna: A near billionaire who's always called her own shots. Now she is a victim. Please...
October 20th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
''But does he deserve 50 millions bucks just for being there? I don't think so.''
@ Mancan - he deserves it as much as Phil Collins' wife who was a no mark before their marriage , yet got the kids and £20m out of Phil's £70.
October 20th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
So Ms. Ciccone ("Madonna") fell for the Guy guy because he was tough enough to stand up to her, only now to dump -- and smear -- him for that very reason? Jeez Louise, some women aren't easy to please.
Anyway, it's widely understood that she married Ritchie because he is film director whilst she was desperate to become a movie star, which she has failed to really do because, as she accuses him of pointing out, she can't act.
But she may well have an innate knack for the victim role, like so many females do.
October 20th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Whereas the original Madonna may have been the mother of the supposed Messiah, the Ciccone woman is no more than the Mother of All Whores. She showed the world that someone of minimal talent could become huge by acting like a tramp, and in her wake came the Britneys, Aguilleras, and most atrocious of all, Paris Hilton, a walking answer to the question “What would it be like if Trailer Trash had money?”
It is no surprise to me that a woman of such low morality has decided to counter possible charges of adultery by accusing her husband of abuse. She didn’t care what negative influence she would have on the younger members of her own sex, so we shouldn’t expect her to care whether or not she vilifies one man.
From the article...
“Friends have told a newspaper that that the marriage first ran into serious difficulties in 2005 when Madonna fell from her horse.”
More likely that she fell from a baseball player while playing “ride ‘em cowgirl”.
“She suffered eight broken bones...”
It’s terrible how easily old people’s bones break.
“and felt that Ritchie showed "a complete lack of love and sympathy". “
Probably jealous of the horse.
Frankly the biggest mystery in all this is what he ever saw in her, she sure as hell didn’t help his career with her atrocious “performance” in “Swept Away”.
October 20th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Does she have to give him half of the fake British accent?
Glenn, many people suspect (including probably Brits) that Madonna isn't going to stay in Britain out of concern for her children, but rather because that's the cool and hip thing in Hollywood: Leaving the barbaric, "capitalistic", greedy Americans who voted for Bush, twice, and instead becoming a snobbish, elitist where you need a HELOC loan to buy a beer. (Not to bash the very nice Brits since we'll be in London doing just that in about a year.)
The hypocrisy of the left is to preach the importance of "green living" and "multicultural diversity" while riding around in private jets and hypocrisymobiles (Jeana, that's a 'car') and praising the wonders of nearly all lily-white countries such as Sweden, Finland, and Amsterdam (which now increasingly have to set up Sharia law and make women wear burkas to appease their growing Muslim populations.)
Madonna was a "material girl" all along and slimed her way to the top via a franchise similar to Howard Stern's and now that she stands to lose what has always been most important to her: money, she's going to play the victim which goes against EVERYTHING she claimed to build as a street-tough woman who did it all on merit. Tee hee. Yeah, and watch her try to power her private helicopter with used canola oil too...
October 20th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
I think Madonna is an interesting cultural icon -- maybe the first modern raunch feminist.
She has reinvented her persona multiple times, but now the problem is she can't reinvent being 50 and she can't stop the biological clock.
Since her soon-to-be-ex-husband was not in any direct way abusive, the only thing left to go for is the "emotional abuse" scam.
Telling a 50 year-old pop diva that she's starting to look a little older than her 19 year-old back-up dancers is merely a statement of fact.
Heck, I've seen Bob Dylan twice this past year and at 62 he is not pretending to be the young avante garde prophet anymore. He just sings (well sometimes croaks or mumbles) and rearranges his songs so that you can't even recognize them from the original versions --- and it's great!
Maybe Madonna could be Bob's back-up dancer. That would make her look really hot compared to craggly old Bob.
October 20th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Swept Away... by an Unusual Destiny in the Blue Sea of August
Nelson says: "Frankly the biggest mystery in all this is what he ever saw in her, she sure as hell didn’t help his career with her atrocious “performance” in “Swept Away”."
PK responds: I'm a huge fan of the original Italian marxist/feminist film "Swept Away... by an Unusual Destiny in the Blue Sea of August" which played upon the relationship between men (as providers) and women (consumers) as an allegory of the relationship between the workers and the capitalist elite. It was not only thought provoking, but delightfully unPC even for it's day.
Madonna, whose film credits include the worst film of all time, "Shanghai Surprise", tried to remake this masterpiece.
I remember walking down Hollywood Blvd in L.A. when I was approached for free movie tickets to "Swept Away" I was interested since I loved this film and thought maybe there was a film festival in town with the original Italian version until they said it was a Madonna film. I laughed and walked away.
October 20th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
...The solution for Gradmadonna: 70-year-old backup dancers.
October 20th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Sometimes, you're glad you're not in a theater
Roy says: "Telling a 50 year-old pop diva that she's starting to look a little older than her 19 year-old back-up dancers is merely a statement of fact."
PK responds: I remember Sharon Stone getting her girdle twisted when the fans didn't come out to see Basic Instinct II for similar reasons. My wife insisted we rent it and I am still traumatized. It's like watching chain smoking Phylis Diller seduce schoolboys. In this particular case, the film required all the young studs to instantly fall in love with her which was almost hilariously implausible.
It's kind of weird to see Sharon Stone and Madonna whine they can't make big bucks on tour anymore when it's irrelevant. She's now a wealthy capitalist and doesn't need to perform other than for an ego trip. Paul McCartney just does charity tours now.
October 20th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Many women want to live in dramas. Check out Karpman Drama Triangle to see all three roles a woman can play. Victim is, of course, their finest act.. But they relish the other roles too of Perpetrator and Savior. Madonna is an actress and this is a real dramatic part, before she's relegated to the final role of the old hag..
October 20th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Madonna rose to fame and fortune by taking her20 year old body and shoving it electronically in everybody's face on MTV. It certainly was not her musical skills. And lets face it, there is a market for that and she was smart enough to take advantage of it.
It is painful to see her riding the downside of the that same curve. There are many women who can catapult ahead of men and less attractive women by using their looks and sex appeal. This is true in marriage as well as the media and business. The funny thing to me is not that this happens but that there are still people who pretend not to understand it.
October 20th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
I just looked up "selfish" in my dictionary and it had Madonna's picture next to it. Seriously she laid a claim to fame for being the "Material Girl" and if that doesn't describe selfishness nothing else does. So if Madonna has described herself as "selfish" why shouldn't Guy Ritchie agree with her? Isn't that what she wanted? Dominance over him? Hmm.
Maybe the word "Girl" in "Material Girl" is the problem. Apparently Madonna herself is having problems aging. Just the idea of a 50 year old pre-menopausal woman deluding herself that it is "okay" to have a baby says Madonna is having trouble saying bye-bye to fertility and all of the advantages she's enjoyed from being a fertile girl for the last 25 to 30 years.
As for her allegations against Ritchie...again many of them are nothing more than the demons in her own head now that she is over the hill and can't go back. And in the "Sexy Olympics" Madonna has already been replaced by women young enough to be her daughter, not to mention by some up and coming girls young enough to be her grand-daughter. Apparently the truth really does hurt.
Also, I think she may resent a husband who is 10 years younger than her and still attractive and wealthy enough to woo many of those women young enough to be Madonna's daughter. I sense that many of her allegations are just sour grapes at the "unfairness" of nature.
Unfortunately she's such a drama queen that she will probably, as usual get her way in the divorce. I sense that she possibly has more money than Ritchie and is trying to protect it from any claims for alimony he might make. I hope he isn't chivalrous and goes for what is due him in the way of alimony and custody of his children with her. I also think the two little boys would be better off in his custody.
October 21st, 2008 at 1:12 am
Madonna is a conniving skank who calculates every move she makes, whether it involves portraying herself as a victim in a divorce settlement, adopting a child from Africa, or promoting her Kabbalah Temple.
It's time for her to exit, stage left.
October 21st, 2008 at 2:21 am
In as much as I would like to pile on Madonna (in a metaphorical sense, mind you), she's doing what every person involved in a divorce is doing. She is portraying herself as a victim. It is up to us, the jury, to see through the BS.
October 21st, 2008 at 3:43 am
I have always respected Madonna. I've never like her music. But I have appreciated her disdain and mockery of the institutions that have corrupted our society. She is a woman with a lot of fight in her. When she understands clearly what the choices and consequences are, she will tear apart, brick by brick, the worst things our society has built.
If she could only see what us non-custodial parents have to endure, perhaps she could turn her influence on those who treat us like second-class citizens... I hope I am not simply waxing nostalgic for the very best.
Still, it is not only disrespectful to call her a "skank" and "whore." I believe that it is counter-productive. It is making us appear to be the same kind of narrow-minded dolts who refuse to believe that denigrating a child's other parent hurts the child most of all.
October 21st, 2008 at 4:52 am
penumbrook, you’ve seen that woman up on a cross way too many times...
“When she understands clearly what the choices and consequences are, she will tear apart, brick by brick, the worst things our society has built.”
I believe you are confusing her with Jesus. Where is the evidence that this woman cares at all about society? What has she done with her immense fortune to do away with society’s ills? She has been a star for over 20 years, and I haven’t noticed her tearing anything down except standards of decency.
“If she could only see what us non-custodial parents have to endure,”
She is in showbusiness, it’s a given she already knows what non-custodial parents have to endure .
“Still, it is not only disrespectful to call her a "skank" and "whore." “
Thank you for pointing that out- we thought we were being respectful to her.
“ It is making us appear to be the same kind of narrow-minded dolts who refuse to believe that denigrating a child's other parent hurts the child most of all.”
Dolts aren’t known for their liking of evidence- there is evidence that she is promiscuous and sexually amoral, indeed, far more evidence than there is to the contrary, so it does not take a dolt to believe she is these things. The idea that denigrating a child's other parent doesnt hurt the child does not have evidence behind it, so believing it requires a certain amount of “doltness”.
October 21st, 2008 at 7:29 am
Its hilarious that "looks like a granny" is of any significance, that's the silliest cop-out I've heard in quite awhile. She may have screwed her partner out of money that if the genders were reversed wouldn't have happened, but she also made alot of people realize shes just like many other (not all) people with a BIG SELFISH EGO.
October 21st, 2008 at 8:55 am
Like many women, Madonna knows that if she can act the victim she'll get her way in Family court.
Big deal! Ritchie told a 50 year old woman, in so many words, to grow up! I'm sure it wasn't the first time Madonna was told she's getting too old to act like a teen harlot onstage.
It seems like women can say all kinds of horrible things to a man and he's suppose to smile and take it, but let a man say the slightest thing to upset a woman and OMG he's a horrible beast and will have Hell to pay!
October 21st, 2008 at 9:23 am
I liked Madonna - at 14. The only statement she's ever made is that women can wear lingerie over their clothes. Madonna has not advocated the "freeing of souls" for women - she's merely flaunted a right to choose which only made her look like a whore. The irony of being named "Madonna" while mocking a woman's modesty has only fed into the moral decay so prevalent among young girls and women in American society. Madonna didn't advocate for women's rights - she simply paved the way to whoredom by breaking down the barriers of self-consciousness and personal boundaries. Flaunting ones sexuality may have made her a lot of money, but it couldn't have earned her any enduring respect from those outside of her world. I don't see her as a respectable role model for anything - she found a way to get soft porn on MTV. Wow.
And she does look like a granny - hang up the leotard already.
October 21st, 2008 at 9:58 am
Madonna needed lies to get her career going, she needs lies and drama to keep it going 28 years later. This should come as a surpise to nobody. The way she trashed her family in her early days with lie after lie, her attitude of 'I am the only one who counts here', and the list goes on.
Now the foul mouthed things she is saying to make Guy Richie the bad man here. Really we are not there in their home, but you do not see him running around shooting off his mouth over every little thing. He is not staring in sexually oriented videos and trying to pass it off as music. As a parent I would be embarassed to have my children see me in those clothes on TV or in public. Now if I were to wear those things in the right time and place, that is another story. My kids do not and should not have to be subjected to how I get my freak on in private.
If I could only send a message to the judge in this matter...Send David back to his real father, and give the other kids to Guy as he appears to have the good sense to raise them up right.
October 21st, 2008 at 10:05 am
I think Madonna has been quite consistent throughout her career. I can always be confident that if Madonna does it, it is wrong, trashy, booring or poorly considered.
She is completely amoral, and this latest crap is just really the centerline of divorce strategy for the rich and amoral.
Even her fitness goals seem oriented towards trashyness. She all the sexiness of a worn our porn star that can't remember who that was she was getting it from ten minutes ago.
October 21st, 2008 at 10:38 am
....Funny how performers like Tina Turner and Barbra Streisand have grown up gracefully but not Grandmadonna....
October 21st, 2008 at 11:56 am
pjk Says:
October 21st, 2008 at 10:38 am
....Funny how performers like Tina Turner and Barbra Streisand have grown up gracefully but not Grandmadonna....
_______________________
That's an interesting point. Through out the history of "Hollywood stardom" we have seen many women who had the good sense to age gracefully such as Audrey Hepburn, Ingrid Bergman, Grace Kelly, Barbara Stanwyck, Rosalind Russel and so on. What they all had in common that Madonna lacks is genuine talent and a sense of self-respect.
I've cautioned my 30 year old daughter many times that she has only maybe 10 years left to get by on her looks and "genetic celebrity" so she better have a back up plan for living the remainder of her years like a darn good job or a stable marriage and family life. Madonna apparently didn't get that warning or if she did, probably dismissed it.
Now Madonna's body is aging, nobody wants to see an old woman's coochie, she can't sing well, and can't act at all. So much for a job to see her through her post menopausal years. Now she's ditching the family life, too. That leaves her with nothing much for the next 20 or 30 years. I expect to hear a lot of whining out of her in the future because given her current comments she will continue to refuse to accept responsibility for the bad choices she has freely made.
October 21st, 2008 at 12:06 pm
On the Catwalk
Perspicacious says: "That leaves [Madonna] with nothing much for the next 20 or 30 years."
PK responds: Are you serious?!?! Madonna's divorce fight is to keep from losing up to half of her half-billion dollar fortune still leaving her with 250 million dollars!!! That's more than 10 times the largest lottery jackpot payouts (after taxes).
Americans are both wealth AND celebrity obsessed and sometimes we imagine that people who become wealthy via celebrity must be miserable if they can't maintain that into old age. On the other hand, most wealthy people go throughout their lives with few if anyone outside their immediate circle knowing who they are and prefer it that way.
October 21st, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Madonna got her start in porn movies, and was instrumental in moving porn's style and content into the mainstream. She took advantage of the feminist movement in the 1980's and was a force for the downside of unlinking "power" and "sexuality" from any human values. Remember Cindy Lauper? That was a woman expressing herself. Madonna is synthetic through and through.
Needless to say I have only contempt for Madonna, and her latest ploy. Also, I can only believe that Guy Ritchie deserves any money he may get.
October 21st, 2008 at 2:06 pm
PK responds: Are you serious?!?! Madonna's divorce fight is to keep from losing up to half of her half-billion dollar fortune still leaving her with 250 million dollars!!! That's more than 10 times the largest lottery jackpot payouts (after taxes).
My Reply: Are you serious??? Sure money is nice especially lots of money. But for a person who craves public attention the loss of that won't be helped by money.
The loss of a solid family life and ending up alone and lonely as an OLD woman can't be made better by money either. Sure Madonna can pay people to be with her but its the money they want, not to spend time with her.
If Madonna continues to take a lax attitude to the importance of a good marriage and raising her children properly she may well end up like Diane Keaton who had to buy another woman's children so there'd be someone to visit her in her old age and cry at her funeral.
I'm always amazed at the people who think $$$ = happiness when there are so many real life examples of rich people who ended up miserable and lonely.
October 21st, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Guy Ritchie got off a good quip yesterday.
He said that making love to Madonna was like "sleeping with a piece of grissle."
Ouch!
Clearly his attoneys need to advise to be more discrete.
October 21st, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Golden Years
Ill stick with you baby for a thousand years
Nothings gonna touch you in these golden years, gold
Golden years, gold whop whop whop
Come get up my baby -- David Bowie, Golden Years
Perspicacious says: "The loss of a solid family life and ending up alone and lonely as an OLD woman can't be made better by money either. Sure Madonna can pay people to be with her but its the money they want, not to spend time with her. "
PK responds: I hate to say this, Perspicacious, but welcome to the world of Men! Most men know, but don't think about the implications, of the reality that most women would leave them in a heartbeat if they didn't have a decent job or wealth. Madonna practiced this herself when she slept her way to the top. For some strange reason, I don't feel sorry for her in that there's a shortage of people willing to love The Material Girl "Just as she is." (As Bridget Jones would put it.)
The modern feminist era has produced women (not directed at you, of course) a generation of women who believe that they can demand the most perfect traits from men in terms of attractiveness, wealth generation, and attitude while they can all be the equivalent of 6 pack slurping Archie Bunkers who do as they damn well please. That was the comedy behind Bridget Jones' Diary: That Bridget could be a desperate, aging, chubby, alcoholic, chain-smoking potty mouth who would land the choicest of men, literally, Mr. Darcy, human rights lawyer, for being "just who she is."
It's hilarious, in a darkly comical kind of way, that feminism and Madonna's raunch version of it sought power and money at all costs (pardon the pun): More voting rights and money and yet you think she's pining away out of loneliness? I say, with all due respect, BALDERDASH! I think she's angry that this might cost her. Madonna LOVES the idea of buying and selling human beings like cattle and it angers her when one of the herd gets uppity and gets a better bargain.
It's possible, Perspicacious, that Madonna is a miserable person not because of loneliness but rather that's what drove her to become successful. I personally try to make it into kind of a switch where I become a tough cookie to bargain and negotiate with (because that's what people want) but in reality I'm actually a softie (yeah yeah yeah, you're going to laugh at that. Go ahead.) Madonna is "happy" being miserable, I think. She's a sicko.
October 21st, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Gristle
I checked it out and apparently he was referring to her being tough due to her exercise regime, not age.
October 21st, 2008 at 5:32 pm
PolishKnight Says: For some strange reason, I don't feel sorry for her in that there's a shortage of people willing to love The Material Girl "Just as she is." (As Bridget Jones would put it.)
_________________________
You're making some big assumptions here as I never said I feel sorry for Madonna. Quite the contrary.
Bottom line is Madonna is one of the world's biggest "attention whores." Most women thrive on attention but Madonna took it to almost an art form and I think she got addicted to the attention and just expected it to continue on and on through the passing years because she was...MADONNA and thus was entitled to be noticed as someone special. I don't think she ever thought about the day it would end.
I think part of the reason for her affair with the baseball guy is a last ditch desperate effort to create some new drama in her life to get public attention again by getting trashy stories about her "outrageous" activities in the Enquirer and on every tabloid TV show.
Eventually no one is going to care how many guys a 68 year old Madonna shags and *that* is something that will really make her miserable but my pointing this out in no way means I sympathize with her.
October 21st, 2008 at 5:36 pm
PolishKnight Says:
October 21st, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Gristle
I checked it out and apparently he was referring to her being tough due to her exercise regime, not age.
______________________
Whatever the rationale behind the gristle remark, I don't think it was meant as a compliment.
October 21st, 2008 at 10:42 pm
While Madonna may or may not be lying, if she is, it is most likely for publicity. These allegations will not stop Guy from getting money in the settlement but they may make Madonna's post-divorce media interviews more interesting. And, believe it or not, Madonna is not washed up. She may not receive as much attention from the press and fans as she did in the past, but she still sells out shows. Also, Money may not make you happy but it sure helps A LOT. Imagine never having to worry about money. I think people who still remain incredibly unhappy after gaining riches, are people that will never be happy. Additionally, let's face it, some people are not cut out for relationships, may be she should be single.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:58 am
"Also, Money may not make you happy but it sure helps A LOT."
Im sure it does, so is this guy...
“Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a yacht big enough to pull up right alongside it.”
-David Lee Roth
It's funny how for a woman that is portayed as a feminist she is getting no support from the local gals, perhaps she isnt quite the feminist icon the media claims she is.
October 22nd, 2008 at 5:17 am
Interesting comments but lets look at the big picture:
The IMBRA law and part of VAWA were 100% motivated by the outrage that politically powerful aging baby boomer women have that men their own age are dating and sometimes marrying gorgeous young foreign women half their age.
With Christie Brinkley and, now, Madonna going into white hot rage that their much younger husbands want much younger women (Guy probably slept with one of her backup singers), we are seeing more of how ENTITLED feminists really think they are.
They feel they are ENTITLED for us to remain sexually attracted to THEM forever.
They will make any legislation they can get away with to enforce this.
Their main goal, apart from making sure young western women are disgusted by the idea of dating older men, is preventing men from dealing with younger women from societies that are not feminist...societies where 50 year old women do not seriously consider marrying great looking 35 year old men who could easily date 19 year olds themselves.
IMBRA prevents American men from communicating with foreign women who do not read email but prefer to have men contact them via phone or snail mail. IMBRA states that a woman must sign in writing that a man can contact her...something that is not really possible in any serious real time scenario if the woman does not have email or is not standing by a fax machine.
What shocks me is the apathy and the agreement some conservative males have had toward the feminist propaganda drive to paint gorgeous foreign women as "Mail Order Brides" and deride the idea of a man dating a gorgeous younger woman.
I have had MRAs tell me that they do not want men to promote dating younger women because it causes conservative males who run conservative organizations to turn against us...apparently because it conjures up images of child molestation.
That is exactly what aging feminists want men to think about other men who will not date their own age.
We have to break the cycle here.
The Men's Rights Movement needs to recognize that the most evil feminist motivation is to tell us whom we men are supposed to be sexually attracted to.
Next up: Ashton Kutscher will cheat on Demi Moore with a 20 year old...possibly a friend of Demi's adult daughters.
October 22nd, 2008 at 12:27 pm
IMBRA
I think the resentment towards IMBRA isn't anything to do with raw numbers. There are only a hundred thousand or so K-1 VISAS issued. What irked the American women was that men had an "easy" out and the emotional power that would trickle down towards ordinary men who didn't take advantage of it. Feminism is an offshoot of a modern chivalrous dating practice in the states that tells men that they have to beg for sex and dates. I have had American men tell me that they are opposed to "mail order" dating because the men treat women "like shit." These men were then shocked, get this, that my wife packs my lunch for me. That's right! These American men are terrified to even ask their SAH wives to make a LUNCH for them!
Other conservative men told me that they instruct their daughters to treat men like a combination between an ATM machine and a doorman. They are supposed to play "hard to get" games, demand the man hold open her doors, make him pay for stuff, and she just shows up in clothing and makeup that she would have worn to impress her friends anyway. Feminism is responsible for a lot of ills in modern society, but stuck up women here existed before them.
In addition, there's also some chickens coming home to roost at the same time: Feminism taught women to take successful breadwinner men for granted and affirmative action pushed men out of the upper income white collar workplace. Rather than accept responsibility for leftist policies, the left instead argues that it's "outsourcing"'s fault that, gasp, so many women are having to marry down.
About Ashton Kutcher and Guy Ritchie: I don't think these men necessarily cheat on their old ladies (pardon the pun) but rather that these women have relationship and personal issues that would test any marriage. Madonna's associates claim that her career was causing the breakup and I wouldn't be surprised if that was true.
October 22nd, 2008 at 12:46 pm
It is amazing how so many American men could be successfully propagandized to by the feminists in that they are supposed to be "opposed" to dating younger foreign women because the feminists told them that some women were getting mistreated (far less statistically than American women were being mistreated by their hubbies).
Bruce Willis regularly goes to Moscow to date attractive women.
Nicholas Cage and Matt McCoughnahy and Ben Kinglsley are all with foreign squeezes.
October 22nd, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Here is an interesting story of two women refusing the help of a man to change their tire:
http://darwinawards.com/personal/personal2007-05.html
The woman who had her car fall on her should sue her Womyn's Studies professor.
October 22nd, 2008 at 1:01 pm
PolishKnight - I always appreciate your posts; however to blame "the left" for men's decline in income-earning power and the disappearance of the single-earner nuclear family is naive.
Last time I checked, it was the Republican right and the neocons who supported the whole transition towards "globalization" and making America "competitive" internationally.
(Well, Clinton gets some blame too. He was certainly no leftist.)
The main result of this fallacy has been the loss of millions of jobs for blue collar men and hence, the need for women (wives) to move into the workplace to earn income to keep a family intact.
And now we are seeing the results of globalization, which has always just been code for transfering wealth to the elites and reducing the American middle-class standard of living.
A Chinese family is happy to live on $40 a week. Is that going to be required of an American family soon?
Just wait until those $2,500 Indian and Chinese automobiles meet US safety standards. That will be the death of the US auto industry. Another success of globalization.
So the answer to the current meltdown is what? Corporate socialism. Give the very fat cats who cooked up the financial scam $700 billion of tax-payer's money to ensure that their golden parachutes do not deflate.
Even the Bolsheviks would envy this level of diabolical corruption.
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Privyet Tovarisch
Fair enough, Roy. I appreciate and respect your disagreement. I think Clinton was a leftist, but just not a very effective one. Regarding "globalization:" The left sought to create a massive trade imbalance with our biggest import of all: Oil. Jeana can't drive around in her hypocrisymobile without it coming from somewhere and if you don't drill for it here, then it has to come from somewhere else. Same thing with all those other "cool" gadgets that require harsh chemicals to make. The tree huggers don't want them made here. While there are elements of the right that want cheap lawn care and hotel room maids, it's largely the left that seeks to import illiterate voters to set up their own banana republic.
You're putting the cart before the horse in claiming that women "had" to work because of declining wages to keep the family intact. BOTH of us know that the left has been attacking the two parent family as "retro" for years! It's HILARIOUS that they only support marriage when it's gays walking down the aisle. The rest of the time, they are seeking to make every home run by unwed mothers. Women with above average earnings tend to remain unmarried rather than marry down.
I don't see why you think the Chinese standard of living is so bad or globalization. The left is claiming that Obama is great precisely because he appeals to a world audience. Even Joe Biden says that Osama Bin Laden and other dictators can hardly wait for him to be elected so they can make a "change!" If you think our war budget is high now, well, just wait! Jerusalem may glow in the dark by 2009... Isn't the goal of the left to make us all give up our cars (or make gas cost $10 a gallon which is the same thing?) and ride bicycles to our grass huts while we worship our elite masters as they ride above us in gas guzzling private jets?
Your tears for the US auto industry amuses me. Are you saying that it's globalization's fault that SUV's aren't moving off the shelves? Cars are still made in the USA by Toyota. Ironically, the high price of gas and oil may result in more cars being made domestically to offset shipping costs.
Now the crown prize of your thesis defending the left: The bailout bill. Here's the final vote: (clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml) Democrats 172, Republicans 91) The reason why this "corporate welfare" passed was to try to prop up housing prices (good luck guys!) and to protect liar loans made out to minorities by leftists. Yep, another great product of affirmative action (and also overpriced, lousy roads.)
Regarding the Bolsheviks: They opposed a silly notion of "private" ballots. They pressured people into displaying their ballot so the police, er, fellow citizens could see that they voted for the right party before they then just declared the communists the winners anyway. And they didn't even need to register Mickey Mouse.
Socialism failed in the USSR and if Obama wins, espect to see your taxes rise for all the wars that Obama is going to have to pay for. Trust me, he's not going to be allowed to cut Israel loose.
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
I may be arranging a conference in Russia entitled "Is the USA the new Soviet Union"?
American journalists will be invited.
The Russians are asking me for an outline of topics
What topics would be good?
And, no, it would not be treason to get rival countries to ridicule us for succumbing to an all-feminist government with Joe Biden.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:04 pm
I once happened to briefly tune into Madonna's "Truth or Dare" movie while channel hopping one evening.
I really do not wish to write disparaging comments about her, whether it be about the movie or her impending divorce (which I'd feel better if it were more of a private matter) but I'm left with an impression that can be summed up as: control issues.
Change the name of the players and this issue surfaces time and again regardless of the sex (gender).
Caveat emptor.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:55 pm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,443364,00.html
Ritchie's new gal, 31 years old...Out with the old, in with the new...
October 22nd, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Just as I predicted above: Guy had already found a younger squeeze and she was, of course, the real reason for the timing of the breakup.
By the way, 9 out of 10 men who openly admit that they WANT to meet a Russian woman or other foreign woman cannot AFFORD to travel to meet anyone.
So the vast majority of the men who use international dating sites never find out what it is actually LIKE to date internationally because they never go anywhere.
Those of us who live overseas are 0.4% of American males.
That said, the vast majority of castrated single males who say they
would not even consider dating a woman in another country...cannot AFFORD to do so anyway and they KNOW this.
October 22nd, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Whats the best sites anyway? Four years of college and I found 7 women desirable enough to date, cute but not beautiful, all were taken. The rest were initially attractive but turned out to be meme privileged princesses , I am curious since know I am nearing 30, military veteran, ex pro-firefighter (social status jobs), B.S. in chemistry (Money), and building up my career and starting to make money if the princesses are going to be so shunning or play victim to their friends when I keep my standards the same just with objectionable fringe benefits to a partner.
October 22nd, 2008 at 5:44 pm
objectified = objectionable
October 22nd, 2008 at 7:46 pm
From pjk's link...
Madonna would reportedly taunt Ritchie by telling him she should have married someone stronger, more intelligent and ambitious. According to Us, the singer would even physically abuse Ritchie by slapping him or poking him.
I have no trouble believing that, at all.
October 23rd, 2008 at 4:12 am
A feminist defines a "weak man" as someone who would date a younger woman. I can point to court documents where they say that.
The idea has worked its way into court precedent and someone is going to have to challenge not just IMBRA but this very concept in federal court.
They say that a man who would date a younger woman is "unintelligent".
If they can, as in Christie Brinkley's case, they will say that such a man is a "borderline pedophile" which is the new phrase for a man who would date a college student.
Furthermore, they believe that, for a 40 year old man to date even a 30 year old, is "unambitious".
They would definitely say that I am with a 20 years younger girlfriend because I am a lazy slob who wants to "control" someone.
The reality is, of course, the opposite. Any decent looking 40 year old man can wake up on a Saturday morning confident that, if he WANTED to, he could by sundown on Sunday, find and start living with a rich older woman or a career woman his own age who would pay for his every need.
Most of us males, however, would rather die penniless in the gutter than consider making moves on rich older women. This is natural.
I know plenty of men are OK with someone their own age, but millions of us males cannot even do that. In fact, when I was 30 I turned down a multi-millionaire heiress who was my own age because I preferred a college student who was also interested.
I don't regret that decision...because it would not have been ethical to use the rich woman for financial gain.
The real tragedy of feminism is that they have taught some twenty-something women to feel the same way about older men. This is unnatural.
Which is proven by the fact that tons of American college girls will date older men. Young American women are, for obvious reasons, not filled with hatred about men dating younger women. They can only be trained by the feminists to see that they will be old some day too so they need to hate men in advance.
So Michael: If you have social status, a car and a good job, hit the college campuses.
And do not be afraid to go for the absolute best looking...just forget about her quickly if she does not shine to you fast and give you her cell phone number (don't let women just give you their email address or you should just move to Europe where they give out their phone numbers more quickly).
Most men avoid the absolute best looking women and this sometimes gives these women a complex...making it more likely, not less likely, for them not to be princesses.
I like it when 10 guys ignore a gorgeous woman in a room, because she will start to worry if she washed her hair properly and will be that much more friendly to me when I pay attention to her.
Which segways into a reason why the international dating sites are still good...
Go to www.aforeignaffair.com and plenty of gorgeous women there will be very happy to hear that you plan to visit them and their country because hardly any man actually does that.
These foreign women are nice because so few American men are paying attention (I noted above that most American men cannot AFFORD to go overseas at all).
They are shocked to know that, while they are on the Internet with their profiles, nobody seems to be paying any attention.
Imagine your local princess putting her profile up with full length shots of herself up on in a summer drress...and getting no response.
The reason why no man has challenged IMBRA is because the number of guys who actually know the logistics of foreign dating, and how the law unconstitutionally and outrageously blocks communication between people in many cases, would number less than 50 out of a population of 50 Million single men.
October 23rd, 2008 at 4:40 am
In Madonna's defense, it would be the beginning of the end (of a marriage) for me too if I had a husband who said something similar. I would think that we all could at least have some security in our marriages and families since there is enough hostility in the outside world. To save you all the energy, I'd say the same to a man who had a wife that put him down. This is a shining example of why it is better for men and women to stay single than married to people who don't appreciate them.
October 23rd, 2008 at 4:56 am
Agreed.
Guy never had any business telling Madonna that she looked like a granny next to her backup singers.
That is the worst thing a man could ever say to a female friend, much less a wife.
Even for men, a cut about our looking too old is the worst thing one could say.
If she was making millions and loved what she was doing, then if he was disgusted by her behavior, he needed to bow out gracefully and as her friend.
While she clearly suffered from feminist entitlement syndrome in going after a great looking guy 12 years younger than she was, Guy actually does sound like an emotional retard. No amount of her putting him down should have led him to enunciate his granny comment. That comment was for men outside the marriage to make, but not him.
October 23rd, 2008 at 6:37 am
Wow, that's pathetic if your that insecure.
October 23rd, 2008 at 7:07 am
Madonna, if actually in love with a man 12 years younger, did have every reason to be insecure (but no reason to taunt him or try to control him).
The consensus of the men I talk with is, however, that if she had not been used by the media as an example of a modern feminist "Strong Woman" and if she had not started to actually BELIEVE that her supposed "Strength" entitled her to a marriage with a much younger, great looking and successful male...she would never have put herself into the position of having to be so insecure.
There are plenty of men now over 60 years old who would have loved to cherish Madonna as the younger woman he dreamed of when he was 30-something and she was that gorgeous 20 year old singing "Cherish".
Although it would probably greatly bother such a man that she still wants to pretend she is 20 (when older men date younger women, they do not wear baseball caps and prance around like a teenager on stage). Madonna had the kind of money to forgo continuing her old erotic sex tour shows. Even if she had not lost her looks, she could have grown up more and gotten a more mature and interesting theme (think Joan Baez).
I remember being a young soldier in the US Army and knowing that the gorgeous 20 year old Madonna would have nothing to do with me because I was younger and poor. Back then, Madonna would have been dating older men.
She might have continued doing so.
October 23rd, 2008 at 11:26 am
True your right she is such a victim, I forgot that women are cherished and men can only be blamed and are guilty by default. He must have manipulated her into marriage to have children.
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Jack Sanderson Says:
October 23rd, 2008 at 4:56 am
Agreed.
Guy never had any business telling Madonna that she looked like a granny next to her backup singers.
That is the worst thing a man could ever say to a female friend, much less a wife.
_____________________________
I disagree. First of all we don't have the full context in which Ritchie made the comment. We don't really know if he said it at all. To me this whole thing smacks of a "he said...she said" situation.
I don't have any back up dancers whether 19 or 40 years old but I can distill this sort of comment down to my own life experiences. If I have spinach stuck in my front teeth or toilet paper on my shoe, I'd much prefer my husband point it out to me than let me go on believing I looked marvelous.
Ditto if he thinks I'm getting too fat. If the delivery is done right that observation alerts *me* that I might need to pay attention to my appearance. Ditto if he says he doesn't like my new hair style. Maybe...just maybe he's right and the hair stylist is wrong and the new hairdo isn't flattering to me. At least I've gotten a heads up rather than walk around in public believing I look gorgeous when it isn't so.
Only a thin-skinned or immature person would knee-jerk to take offense rather than consider the possibility what is being said about them just happens to be the painful truth and knowing this allows them to make adjustments where needed.
October 23rd, 2008 at 3:18 pm
My girlfriend often hits my stomach to remind me to go to the gym.
And, come to think about it, she does call me Grandpa sometimes to tease me or when she is really mad and wants to temporarily hurt my feelings.
On top of that, she will badly beat me with her fists or anything handy when she is in a bad mood and someday I might get a broken bone out of it (I assume all women do that). Of course I have never hit back and I know there are millions of husbands and boyfriends out there who are silently living under those conditions (Guy included - I am sure Madonna beat him hard a few times).
I don't feel like a victim because I love her and choose to stay in the danger zone.
So, agreed, the Granny comment by Ritchie to Madonna has probably been blown out of proportion to the context in which he said it.
One really had to be there and, agreed, somebody and ESPECIALLY her husband had to try to get her to stop prancing around half naked on the stage at age 50 while kissing 20 year old women on the lips.
My girlfriend performs at age 27 in a band onstage in a tasteful long dress...she would still look great in a bikini but she knows she is too old to prance around on stage performing in one.
Note that I never said Madonna was really a victim because I consistently noted that she had no business assuming this younger man would stay with her into her 70s when he could, at 60, still date women in their thirties, especially with his kind of money.
Older women are NOT victims when that happens. Men do what comes naturally and that does NOT make any woman a victim.
The problem in the USA is this: too many conservative, church-going American males consider themselves to be so chivalrous as to say that the women ARE victims of these aspects of the male sex drive.
I have been told by a prominent men"s rights activist that the MALE conservatives whom he has asked to observe Men's News Daily would get badly turned off if they saw that part of the Men's Rights agenda was to reverse the newfangled social stigma against men who date or marry younger women. He only opposes IMBRA because he correctly sees that it effectively blocks many heterosexual marriages (by making sure many people cannot say hello to each other in the first place) while the liberals promote homo marriage and anonymous gay sex dating sites.
As the baby boomer women get older, I fear that the phrase "borderline pedophile" will get more and more used to describe any man their age who dates a woman under 30.
October 23rd, 2008 at 9:39 pm
No amount of her putting him down should have led him to enunciate his granny comment. That comment was for men outside the marriage to make, but not him.--Jack Sanderson
If she was putting him down, then it's expected that he would say what he said. Not right, but expected nonetheless. At any rate, only those who are truly depraved would say something they know would emotionally wound someone.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:47 am
LorMarie, we don't know if Madonna was really emotionally wounded by this and/or if that was Guy's intent.
Here's the thing: Women love to ask their boyfriends/husbands what their opinion is and even request for us to be as honest as possible. It's the oldest joke in the book that women ask their spouses: "Do this make me look fat?" and the answer is: "The fat makes you look fat."
Seriously, it's not uncommon for women to ask men's honest opinions and then turn around and claim he was "cruel" for saying something so direct (on the other hand, if women give unsolicited criticism of men, he's a "baby" if he can't just take it.)
October 25th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Wow!
perspicacious Says:
"Only a thin-skinned or immature person would knee-jerk to take offense rather than consider the possibility what is being said about them just happens to be the painful truth"
Hit the nail on the head.
From the UK Telegraph:
"They include allegations that he told her she 'looked like a granny' on stage compared with her younger backing dancers. He is also alleged to have declared that she could not act, and was 'past it' after she turned 50.
Her lawyers say that 40-year-old Ritchie's comments made Madonna feel worthless, unattractive, unfeminine, insecure and isolated during their eight-year marriage."
The fact is she does look like an older woman compared to the younger backing dancers because that is exactly what she is. How she felt about it is of her own choosing.
Claiming he "made" her feel is say she sees herself as completely powerless over their own life, and divorcing him, so as to stop hearing it, will not make her young again, and that is the ugly fact that all the money in the world and all the legal rulings will not change, but what the heck, the court system has stopped dealing in facts and destroyed the last foundation, truth, it needs to be built upon, to be a court of law, by lying to her, to make her feel good.
October 25th, 2008 at 9:58 am
LorMarie Says:
"This is a shining example of why it is better for men and women to stay single than married to people who don't appreciate them."
It is no such thing.
Nothing about this even suggests Madonna wanted to be appreciated for getting old, it is quite the contrary.
What it really is an example of someone that cannot accept who she is and wants others to pretend something different to bolster her sagging ego.
This is a burden and stressful to the other because it requires they deny reality, and not at all surprising they will blurt out the truth to protect their own sanity.
What Madonna, like everyone else, wants is to know is we are valued for who we are, and the first step to this knowledge is self-acceptance.
JT
November 13th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Alekable,
Nice try, especially where you seem to ignore the 90% of women who are not feminist and who do not try to date much younger men to prove some point. You will need to read Glenn's site more often so you will understand that men have some seriously valid gripes with modern victim feminism. There are other sites like MensNewsDaily.com and OnlineDatingRights.com which will show you that most of what you call "misogynists" just want to be left alone in the face of shrill and obnoxious anti-male lawmaking from the likes of Hillary and Company (VAWA and IMBRA as examples).
Everyone knows the heart of modern victim feminism is the "fear of abandonment" on the part of insecure aging baby boomers.
Most men would feel compassion for aging women hoping to keep their husbands from running off with a much younger woman.
But the compassion stops if you get old women like Hillary Clinton or Queen Victoria (last century) trying to establish "cultural norms" and even laws that attempt to "stem the tide" of men dating younger women as a norm.
The politically correct nonsense behind Demi Moore hooking up with Ashton K after Bruce Willis nailed the 19 year old nanny speaks for itself. The Christie Brinkley and Madonna marriages to great looking much younger men who could ALSO nail the 19 year old nanny were also predictable disasters, and it was a spit in the face to the nice rich 60 year old guys whom these women could have married.
Anyone can see this BS trend was trying to seriously mess with mother nature.
Now, in a vacuum, this would all just be a sad story of a woman who thought her money and fame could compete with the younger women who would be crawling all over a young guy like Ritchie who could pass for 30 (college coeds cannot tell the difference between a 30 year old man and a 40 year old man who takes care of himself).
But laws like IMBRA actually try to make it ILLEGAL for a dating website to introduce American men to foreign women who often want to date and marry men 20 years older.
IMBRA forces men to be background checked and for the women to sign in writing that they read the background check before anyone can even say hello.
IMBRA is pure hatred directed at American males by older American females who are furious at being ignored.
It is a declaration of war against men....because the dating sites in question (derogatorily called marriage brokers) openly say "don't marry the old feminist with 4 cats next door. Fly to Russia instead". This infuriates feminists and makes them want to pass laws against it all.
In trying to uphold IMBRA the feminists openly say "These sites market women as not being feminist...which means the women are in danger when they come to the states and become feminist".
That arrogant idea that "women will become feminist if you allow them to develop from the supposed downtrodden clods they might be in their low-life countries" is infuriating.
Alekable: Tell your friends in the feminist circles to LAY OFF trying to regulate whom we can say hello to and whom we can date...and maybe you and they can be invited to our weddings.
November 13th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Alekable Says:
"Check out the terminology in use here: 'widely believed', 'alleged', 'apparently', 'sources close to the couple', 'is said to etc.'....wow , it all makes for a highly convincing journalistic case, doesn't it?"
I guess you should have let Madonna know this is all just tabloid trash, so her feelings would not have been hurt.
"Her lawyers say that 40-year-old Ritchie's comments made Madonna feel worthless, unattractive, unfeminine, insecure and isolated during their eight-year marriage" - from above from UK Telegraph
What is really hilarious is your inability to read for comprehension
November 14th, 2008 at 3:36 am
Alekable also fails to understand that the Telegraph is considered to be one of the most credible and serious newspapers in the UK.
Which, of course, isn't saying much....but enough to say that Madonna's lawyer probably did say that Guy made her feel unattractive...which means to a lot of readers that she probably should have recognized a lot earlier not to try to date a man 13 years younger.
Alekable: Please don't tell me that you feel marrying much younger men is something that a rich woman should pull off as a publicity stunt, act of feminist defiance and vanity adventure. Men marry much younger women because of their looks and because the marriages can be stable. There is a different dynamic there. We are not making a political statement when we do that.
The Telegraph was featured in the movie Holiday with Cameron Diaz. It was supposed to represent the most intellectual place for Kate Winslet's character to have a job.
Meanwhile, the Telegraph recently had a real anti-male jerk for an American bureau editor named Toby Harnden.
I called last year and quickly learned that this eunuch feels that men's rights as a subject is equivalent to talking about the right to sell specific narcotics to kids.
Someone might want to bring him up to speed on the latest developments.
The US Bureau number for the Telegraph is 1-202-393-5195...he might still be there.
Toby Harnden's essays on American politics are clueless and childish. But he and the Telegraph really do consider themselves to be a serious newspaper.
November 14th, 2008 at 4:06 am
Feminists actually believe they are not actively interfering with men's lives. They feel they are just trying to create a world where everyone can go their own way freely and equally.
But that is not how the world works in that men want to date the women around the feminists (or within hearing distance of them). Their influence can be poison.
Often it is the 21 year old sister or daughter of a feminist (or someone influenced heavily by feminists) whom we would want to date in the USA.
When the 21 year olds are brainwashed to think they can and should date same age or younger men all their lives...they put nature on its ear and set themselves and everyone else up for heartache on a long term basis.
On a macro level, this can render the USA a poor place to date.