What about 'No'?
January 2nd, 2009 by Robert Franklin, Esq.Here's yet another excuse for giving a break to adult female rapists of minor boys. (Someone should compile a list. Criminal defense attorneys would pay a bundle for it, I'm sure.) The boy had "raging hormones."
Yep, that's what the judge said when he gave the woman rapist, 38-year-old Robin Mowery, a lenient sentence for her multiple assaults on the 15-year-old boy. So apparently, because of his "raging hormones," the boy pursued the woman. Or at least that's her story, er, make that, one of her several stories. So why didn't she just say 'no'? The article doesn't say.
Better yet, the judge added, "like it or not, an underage boy having sex with an older-aged girl is viewed differently than the other way around." Well, no it's not. At least not in the law which a judge, you know, might think is important. Apparently not in this case.
Is it just me or does that statement by the judge sound a lot like something from our recent past? Can't you just hear a judge in Texas or Alabama in the 50s say "like it or not, a black man having sex with a white woman is viewed differently than the other way around"? Of course he was right; it was viewed differently. And it was the role of the law not to extend those racist attitudes to the courtroom.
Remember that odd concept "Equal Justice Under Law"? The words are literally etched in stone on the face of the U.S. Supreme Court building.
With any luck, in a few years, misandric words like this judge's will be viewed with the same opprobrium as the racist ones in the 50s.
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January 2nd, 2009 at 10:19 am
It appears she was the one with raging hormones. We should really feel sorry for her, she couldn't even find a drunk adult man at a bar for her wares.
NOW wants equality, give it to them.
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:47 am
And, of course, her initial defense is to accuse HIM of raping her and assaulting her and her daughter at knifepoint. But no fallout from those lies in court, other than the judge calling it "complete baloney".
Ooooh! You tell her, judge!
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:02 am
The woman in question was 35 at the time of the rape and 38 at the time of the trial. I wonder how old she'd have to be before the judge admits she's an adult and not a 'girl'?
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:30 am
It's going to take longer than a few years I think. Many, many people agree with and support the Judge's views. No change in the law is needed. Rape is already against the law, period. If Judges won't enforce the law and are not held accountable then there is anarchy where this occurs. Such as in this case.
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:31 am
If the rape and violence allegations she made are as clearly false as the judge suggests and this can be proved in court then she needs to be serving additional jail time for those offences too.
What do others thin on this?
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:38 am
Also, if progress is to be made, cases such as this one need to be joined or supported by some father's rights or equal rights advocacy groups. Some sort of broader support.
All that is needed is for existing laws and sentencing guidelines to be followed.
Go in with experts, succeed, set a precedent, publicize it so that awareness is raised. Done several times will lead to more attention and media coverage. And subsequent cases will be easier.
Why not get Bill O'Reilly involved? He is very effective and has often championed children's cases and he is good at pointing out hypocrisy.
The idea is to not just sit back and comment about absurd Judges and their decisions. But to focus more effort on these cases and give the successful result the same type of attention that is being raised here.
I'm not sure if folks are willing to do such things or not. But it has worked for other groups. To me something like applying the law evenly is not a man's issue per se. It's a people issue and reflective of living in an orderly and civilized society.
What do you think?
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:57 am
From the link:
Lynn also chastised Mowery for falsely testifying that the teen forced her to have sex at knifepoint. She also claimed he threatened to rape and kill her daughter if she spoke about their affair.
Hold up. Where I'm from I think that's called perjury. The moral of the story here is that its okay to take advantage of young boys becuase they really want it all the time anyway.
January 2nd, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Let's be candid, the double standard in this area is based on the widely accepted view that boys are out for and enjoy sex more than girls. But set aside the infirmities in these premises -- which I don't think we'll ever change -- let's look at this double standard from a more practical angle, an angle that few people can disagree with.
Perhaps the overriding concern needs to be on the effects such rape has on the child. Recent studies show that BOTH young females and males suffer immeasurable harm from an improper sexual relationship with an adult. Accordingly, the boy in such a relationship has been victimized in real terms, his life has been damaged, perhaps forever. Since a teenage boy is harmed in the same way as a teenage girl by an improper sexual relationship, the double standard needs to be tossed, the jokes need to stop, the boy needs to be looked upon as a victim as opposed to "lucky," and adults of both genders need to be held equally accountable under law.
January 2nd, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Stan says:
"The idea is to not just sit back and comment about absurd Judges and their decisions. But to focus more effort on these cases and give the successful result the same type of attention that is being raised here.
I'm not sure if folks are willing to do such things or not. But it has worked for other groups. To me something like applying the law evenly is not a man's issue per se. It's a people issue and reflective of living in an orderly and civilized society.
What do you think?"
Stan,
I totally agree with you. The idea is not just to sit back and comment, but to do something. And I totally commend you on your willingness to suggest it.
Peace.
January 2nd, 2009 at 12:14 pm
I'm sorry, I should have also said above that I agree that the double standard has to go. I know men who have been deeply affectly by abuse as a child, and to laugh it off and say he's "lucky" is sickening.
Peace.
January 2nd, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Talking about things is all 99.99999% of any one in these forums ever do.
Very few in these or other forums ever actually DO SOMETHING, TAKE ACTION.
All it is blah blah blah talk talk talk.
Yes, that is a necessary and initial starting point but it is not the solution and end all be all.
Get up and do something.
Go to your court house and picket.
Go to your congresspersons office and meet with them or picket if they choose to ignore you.
Join a Family Rights group in your area.
Contact your local media and be relentless with them to cover stories like these that truly impact our communities (the squeaky wheel gets the grease).
Go to the leaders instead of waiting for them to honor your rights.
THEY ARE NOT GOING TO JUST GIVE IT TO YOU.
Do something besides blowing hot air into the universe.
Glenn gives us an impeccable outlet to get started but yet again 99.99999% of you do nothing beyond typing a message.
I know the blacks who now enjoy the freedoms their forefathers did not have, yet, fought and died for are glad they didn't have emails and chat rooms to discuss things - instead their leaders and those who truly cared got up off their rear ends and did something.
January 2nd, 2009 at 12:54 pm
CH Have you got off your butt or are you complaining that others aren't doing anything? This site and others like advance men's rights as an idea. Ideas need to be repeated endlessly before they sink in. If we have an army of cowards who only fight on the internet, we will win. Change ideas and you change the world. Change the minds of a few brave men who will fight for you and your rights.
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:12 pm
The best you can do is call a spade a spade. In this case call it a Statutory Rape, it does not matter what the verdict of the judge was, the crime itself need not be tolerated by society. I suggest we build up a sexual offender registry of our own and put these women on it. If any man has the misfortune of being a neighbor of any of these women - at least he will be warned.
It would be good if we label this registry as - "Expert Sexual Offenders Registry, who got away with the crime".
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:15 pm
CH,
Being on a blog does not mean you are sitting on your butt all the time - although there is nothing wrong with sitting on your butt, what is more important is that you raise awareness - which technically is feasible while sitting on your butt - talking to your friends, neighbors and family. I know many are tempted to call for protest rallies - but quite frankly they are worthless, unless you are Gandhi (i.e. prepared to get beaten to pulp, imprisoned, tortured and still keep going)
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Especially if there is a new cabinet level "Woman's Issues" minister and / or Joe Biden gets Super-VAWA going we are not making enough progress.
What good is changing a law if the present law is ignored by the Judges and those verdicts are accepted by the public?
It seems to me that raising awareness in a coordinated manner via Test Cases such as this one would help immensely.
I mean if the highway speed limit sign says 65 MPM and cops do nothing if you blow by at 125 MPH then the law is meaningless.
What some are proposing is to change the speed limit from 65 MPH to 60 MPH in effect. If the present limit can be ignored then there is no law.
An exception might be some mandatory minimum sentencing but that quickly gets complicated and leads to it's own issues. Since the core problem is letting some people go free while others get harsh treatment.
This is why I think that coordinated awareness raising is the most effective avenue.
And a good way to do that is to have a group assist certain test cases which would wind up with a good result which then gets talked about and discussed by the general public by getting the word out.
How to get there from here?
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Double Standards
I remember resenting the fact that in backwards NorthEast Pennsylvania, the authorities took a special delight in enforcing the underage drinking laws to the point that an 18 year old trying to get a drink was treated worse than heroin. But at the same time, the authorities and bar owners overlooked underage drinking when adult men brought their underage girlfriends to the bars with them.
In most cases, in theory, there was no serious harm done since the young women were usually driven to the bar by their boyfriend but there was still an attitude of entitlement and capitulation. The 21 year old men were paying customers and the bar owners, and even the authorities themselves, wanted young, attractive women to come to the bar to help bolster business.
Our society, like this judge, is obsessed with appeasing and protecting women, especially sexually available women, based upon a perception that men's sex is "dirty" and cheap and women who enjoy or tolerate it are to be indulged. It's a simplistic viewpoint. By the same token, I think that viewing underage boys having sex with adult women as "assaults" is also simplistic and the reverse as well. Intent and actual willingness of both parties should be considered and the charges thrown out where appropriate.
January 2nd, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Polishknight....have you noticed that recent anti-drunk driving ads....the ones with the cars full of beer or wine seem to ONLY show men being stopped by the Police? Women drink too.
January 2nd, 2009 at 2:05 pm
As for activism, the very best thing we can do is help this Web site get bigger and bigger and to support Glenn's work. No other Web site dealing with these issues comes close to attacting the mainstream audience this one does. It needs to get bigger. The sole reason all of these double standards flourish is because people have been taught, and are convinced, that women are in some sense more valuable or more worthy of society's protection than men. The way to combat bad ideas is with good ideas -- not fighting among ourselves.
January 2nd, 2009 at 2:11 pm
PK - "Our society, like this judge, is obsessed with appeasing and protecting women, especially sexually available women, based upon a perception that men's sex is "dirty" and cheap and women who enjoy or tolerate it are to be indulged."
PK,
An excellent insight! Thank you for stating it forthrightly.
I think I sensed a bit of this with the Debra Lefave case when I mused that the justice system was so soft on her because they (the men) would like to have a chance to “bang” her themselves.
I didn’t flesh it out so well as you have, but you are absolutely correct – often times, their “chivalry” is not extended necessarily equally to all women, but rather selectively to, as you have aptly termed them, sexually available women.
I hadn’t thought of it until now, but I can recall an instance many years ago when my wife was asked to take over the case against a young women because it was believed that the male DA assigned to her case had become (at least) emotionally involved with her.
Again, thank you for making the point as to why it might be that women who have shown a wiliness (eagerness) to “put out” seem to get lighter treatment of their crimes.
January 2nd, 2009 at 2:21 pm
That is typical feminist-influenced action at work.You cannot have it both ways. The law is there to protect everyone. If this had been a 38yr old man having sex with a 15 yr old girl the public would would be screaming for his head but because the situation is reversed all of a sudden the case should be judged on its individual merit?
Total Crap. This woman should be held to the same level of accountibility as a mam would. She should do the max sentance then be required to register as a sexual predator for the rest of her life just as manwould be required too. She should have her movements watched, just a man would too.
All of these women who call themselves feminists are nothing but arrogant,synchopantic misandrists who want the benefits of the law without being held to the same level of responsbility.
I hope the boys family appeals this because the judge was dead wrong.
January 2nd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
For those who I knew would question, you only have to do your own homework, view my site, look actually at the advertisers on Glenn's site (you might want to support them since they support Glenn) and then you may see my activity.
You can also tell when those come back with questioning and criticism that the truth has hit a nerve.
I have been to Washington, DC. I have been to my state capitol. I have been to my local court house. I am an active member of local family rights group Alabama Family Rights Assocation www.ALFRA.org, we are working on revising laws, we have a Family Law Task Force created by the Alabama State Supreme Court due to our years of activism, that has been created to bring Alabama up to modern standards within our society.
I have taken action to bring awareness to my community, at my own peril, costs and risk of job loss and jail, since new lawsuits have been filed against me by my ex demanding the new judge put me in jail for my www.WhyJudgeLittle.com public awareness campaign.
As one post stated, you can't do the protesting without risking getting beat up, jailed, etc...and they are right AND they prove my point - you all want change but you do not want to have to do anything to get it. You want change without the risk, without the sacrifice, without have to put yourself out. How is that working out so far?????
Have you ever known of any serious movement that did not involve risk and sacrifice??
It is more safe to email and chat yet it ultimately does not bring the change that is needed.
How is this chat forum 'advancing' men's rights? Advancing??
How does this chat forum change the laws? Changing??
How does this chat forum make the judges apply the law equally? Equal rights???
By itself, alone, It doesn't.
I assure you that the legislators in your state and DC are not worried about some chat forum commentary. They know it won't do anything by itself alone.
Yet, when you are at their front steps and knocking on their doors, the elements change and they cannot ignore you.
I commend Glenn for his willingness to help us fight for our rights, but he can't do it alone and his website and it's chat forum won't be the magic wand. It will take more than that.
It will take each of you going beyong your comfort zone to make change.
Now, what can you say about your efforts? (that's rhetorical, just think about it, and go to work doing something outside this forum)
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:22 pm
The judge is basically saying, "since it's viewed differently, I will view it differently". He pretends that the law, esp. as enforced by the courts, itself has no effect on how the public "views" things! (You could use that same logic to all but completely justify spousal rape.)
That's the basic (unstated) logic behind much of the Standard Female Sentencing Discount, no matter what the crime. (someone needs to come up with an acronym/mnemonic for that ..'SFSD' - any suggestions?)
January 2nd, 2009 at 4:14 pm
I think the current law books need to be thrown out.
Lets stop pretending the same rules apply for men and women. They don't.
There should be 2 sets of laws drawn up - one for men, one for women.
Lets lay it out on the table, so there can be no confusion, and then at least this expectation of equality before the law can be dispelled. It would stop a lot of men getting angry and frustrated once we could just accept and formalise the position that women should be treated like children.
January 2nd, 2009 at 4:43 pm
In an extreme matriarchy, women are never held accounteable for their actions.
In my town, their is such a gender feminist perversion of our local police precinct, that women can scratch themselves in the face, and point to a male they want arrested, and the boys in blue are coming in for him.
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:35 pm
[...] WOMEN CAN BE EVIL: "Here's yet another excuse for giving a break to adult female rapists of minor [...]
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:44 pm
CH Congratulations on your efforts. You have the guts to be the alpha male who stands up for himself and for others.
There are so many more beta males who only respond less forcefully by posting on the internet. We need a hundred times as many of these internet posters to get our message out; to respond to all the NOW and VAWA cow***t; to bring equity to the courts; to remove corrupt judges; to make any politician fear spouting feminist babel Once an idea becomes a source of ridicule it has lost all its power. We must force the mental association of all NOW and VAWA feminists.lies with the truth. For that effort we need those who only post to internet sites. They are the adjunct to your efforts and the other brave men who will confront the evil of the system directly. .
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:08 pm
The "got lucky" thing is crap- there are plenty of 15 year old girls who would love to sleep with Tom Cruise, but if he said yes very few would be saying that his little fan "got lucky."
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:19 pm
@Glenn...
Could you please name the judges concerned in these cases.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Gwallan: 1) the article was submitted by Robert Franklin, not Glenn
2) The article names the judge: Judge Lynn
- I was encouraged reading the comments to the newspaper's article
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:46 pm
OK, sorry for the hasty post. I was on the way to work.
Glenn...
I can do that. I was doing something along those lines already.
At the top of the list, in my country anyway, is to claim "depression". Notwithstanding the fact that one in five Australians is on prescribed medications for depressive conditions this always works. It has the added bonus that the offender becomes a "sympathetic" subject in the public view.
That's how high we set the bar for women in my country. Depression. That's all it takes for a woman to absolutely avoid punishment. Case in my town recently involved a "poor, troubled" woman suffering from post-natal depression. Poor thing. Of course the fact that PND was older than her victim seems not to have been noticed. Local media delved into all the trials and tribulations of her life. Even looked for ways of sanctifying her by finding "nice" things she may have done in the past. They did the defense team's work for them. Looking at the media coverage it was quite clear who the victim really was. And it was her!
It's got to the point where female rapists are presented as victims and the public absolutely falls for it. The media will run what amounts to nothing more than pity parties. We are subjected to demonstrations of sympathy for somebody who sexually abuses a kid. Lovely. Defense teams build a narrative of victimhood around them. Women, particularly, are sucked into this narrative when the media faithfully reproduce it as they almost always do. I write to media and writers whom I know of who deal with these cases fairly. In several years I've written less than ten.
It bears repeating...
In an instance of sexual impropriety ANY woman involved is the victim. Even if they are the offender. Even if they are the only adult in the exchange.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:16 pm
CH,
1. Thank you for your courage
2. Did you know this cesspool existed before your divorce?
3. Dont discount the blogosphere, it helped get Obama elected
4. I've learned a lot from this site and others and understand the threat we face much better than I ever did before thanks to the writing and viewpoints provided here by posters.
5. Wallets are a good way to support this cause too
6. Congratulations to Glenn and team for 2 years of great web work!!!!!!
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Let us consider a more concrete example of just and unjust laws. An unjust law is a code that a numerical or power majority group compels a minority group to obey but does not make binding on itself. This is difference made legal. By the same token, a just law is a code that a majority compels a minority to follow and that it is willing to follow itself. This is sameness made legal.
Letter from a Birmingham Jail MLK
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:32 pm
slwerner said...
Sexually available women?
This, while it may be true of judge's attitudes and those of a foolish public, is not really valid where child sexual abusers are concerned. Far from being "sexually available" the predator targets a specific victim and that victim's specific vulnerabilities.
Male or female they are probably less likely to be "sexually available" than non-predators.
January 3rd, 2009 at 12:50 am
Greg and any one else:
1. Ur welcome. Thank u.
2. Yes, being a child of multiple divorces, and bio dad never being involved in my life and many other personal and family related matters. That is why I am fighting like heck to help my son and others.
3. No way did blogs get Obama elected. Ridiculous to claim such.
4. I agree. Yet, like a broken record, this site will not fix things. Refer to from prior posts. Did you not read my post that supports Glenn?
5. Repeat - Did you not read my post where I support Glenn by advertising on his site??
What kind of discussion can be had when you do not read and comprehend what you are reading and then put it to work??
Where are you suggestions AND action that actually lead us to something beyond chat room?
Why question me in the manner in which you are?
Why make statements that insinuate that I am demeaning Glenn's site, when the EXACT opposite is written in my post and when I have put my money where my mouth is and advertise on Glenn's site.
Why 'question' me in my comments and my actions? You got to R-E-A-D what is written and comprehend it.
Point being, your energy questioning me is wasteful since there is plenty of proof of my doing as I say, talk the talk, walk the walk or whatever cliche you choose.
I have COMMENDED this site and Glenn.
Did you not read my post? Obviously not. If so, you would not find the need somewhere within you to make a remark that I am discounting the blogosphere.
And blogs did not get Obama elected. That is absurd.
And Blogs are not going to bring about the change needed now.
I would be glad to be proven wrong on this.
When and if so, I will be so glad to apologize and admit I am wrong.
Until that day that you all can prove to me a blog changed the current family court nightmare, what are YOU ALL going to do to bring about the change?
Oh, I know, keep bloggin and typing and sitting on your rear end WAITING for the change.
I am 20 minutes from being 40 yrs old. I think it will be at least another 40 plus years before blogs will be THE thing that brings the needed change.
I have said enough and can still tell 99.99999% of you do not get it.
Good night.
January 3rd, 2009 at 2:54 am
@Chris Hobbs...
How about you put away the arrogance.
You have absolutely no idea of what folk do absent this environment and no right to criticise any of them for what you do not know.
January 3rd, 2009 at 12:50 pm
gwallan
ur a perfect example of redirecting and ignoring the message behind my posts.
having been in this for quite a long time, what the vast majority of people are doing beyond this is perfectly clear - not much - given the MILLIONS that are having their rights stolen.
i was questioned and provided direct answer and evidence on what I, for one, am doing outside these blogs.
congrats!
January 3rd, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Danny said:
Heh. If it's the case that young boys are ruled by their hormones then how come they don't get the option of pleading diminished capacity when up for a rape allegation? I mean, after all, if a woman can cry rape because she's drunk, then why can't a boy plead diminished capacity if he's up against a rape charge?
No doubt it's more of that "male privilege" we keep hearing feminist bleating and braying about.
Norman said:
Over at Stand Your Ground we have a term for what's called the "Female Sentencing Discount" used over here. The acronym would be "PP." Go there to find out what it is, because I believe that Glenn and his moderators would consider it 'vulgar.'
January 3rd, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Clarification
I said: if a woman can cry rape because she's drunk, then why can't a boy plead diminished capacity if he's up against a rape charge?
I meant: if a woman can cry rape because she had sex when she was drunk but decided later that she regretted it, then why can't a boy plead diminished capacity if he's up against a rape charge but according to these types of rulings, his behavior is ruled by his hormones?
There. I think the double standard should be obvious, even to the most obtuse feminist.
January 3rd, 2009 at 6:03 pm
gwallan says to Chris,
"You have absolutely no idea of what folk do absent this environment and no right to criticise any of them for what you do not know"
I agree. You know what they say about AS*-YOU-&-ME.
January 3rd, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Translation: boys and men of all ages have agency and are therefore responsible and accountable for their actions. Girls and women, not so much.
January 3rd, 2009 at 7:01 pm
OK thanks Chris.
I'll go elsewhere if thats what I'm going to expect here.
Arrogant pig.
January 3rd, 2009 at 8:03 pm
its gotta be great to be a woman today...they are strong and independent...have all kinds of govt programs....criminal and divorce courts give them discounts...affirmative action...political correctness...and NOW....to promote them
January 3rd, 2009 at 11:07 pm
gwallan,
what do you mean you'll go elsewhere? We need you on the board. Just ignore the loose cannon dork!
January 3rd, 2009 at 11:10 pm
Mr. Bad,
I think I already figured out what 'PP' stands for. Although I have visited Stand Your Ground.com in the past and think it's a pretty good site.
January 4th, 2009 at 9:21 am
The web did play a significant role in the past US election. From Obama's record fundraising, to signing up new voters, to raising awareness it was a big part of that campaign.
One of Obama's first hires was Chris Hughes- founder of Facebook.
Obama used net to BYPASS ENTRENCHED MAINSTREAM MEDIA. ( HMMM - could that be used anywhere else to get an unconventional message out ).
Google Obama and Net and see what comes up. Here is one of first analysis I just saw.
www.timesonline.uk
Also, Tina Fey's viral Swiftboating of Sarah Palin had an effect on the election as well. YouTube was a factor.
Maybe an old saying needs updating "The keyboard/camera is more powerful than the sword."
( Another thing about Obama- he was very careful not to be seen as an angry black man. Cool all the time. Great restraint. Because men have been so demonized traditional protest have the potential even if they are non-violent to stir very negative emotions. Not to say that well placed fury doesnt have its place but perception is critical)
Closer to here, when Glenn has a campaign , launched on a blog, and emails. letters, phone calls are sent they DO HAVE AN IMPACT. FOX backed down in 2008. That is something extraordinary !!!!!
Seems like we are outgunned and we need all hands on deck in this struggle and all TOOLS available. Digital generation are getting close to being in power , they'll respond to the media and protest methods they are most comfortable with.
Looking to the future and not lose sight of who this is all gonna impact as we all care about.