When He's Violent to Her, It's a Felony, When She Stabs Him, It's a Mental Health Issue
June 30th, 2009 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & Families
I recently attended the excellent Los Angeles domestic violence conference "From Ideology to Inclusion 2009: New Directions in Domestic Violence Research and Intervention."
The conference featured many domestic violence dissidents--researchers and clinicians who do not believe that the mainstream domestic violence establishment and its "men as perpetrators/women as victims" conceptual framework is properly serving those involved in family violence.
The Third District Court of Appeal in Sacramento ruled that California’s exclusion of men from domestic violence services violates men’s constitutional equal protection rights in a decision in October. The taxpayer lawsuit -- Woods. v. Shewry -- was initially filed in 2005 by four male victims of domestic violence.
The Court of Appeal held that "The gender classifications in Health and Safety Code section 124250 and Penal Code section 13823.15, that provide state funding of domestic violence programs that offer services only to women and their children, but not to men, violate equal protection." To learn more about the lawsuit, click here.
David Woods, a partially-disabled male victim of domestic violence, was the lead plaintiff in the lawsuit. David spoke of the abuse he suffered at the hands of wife Ruth Woods at the From Ideology to Inclusion 2009. He explained:
We had an incident in February of 1987...This day was about 39 degrees [F], with a driving rain and about a 30 mile-an-hour wind. It was terrible, nasty...We had a fight the night before, before she went to sleep. I worked until 5:00 in the morning, went to bed. I got up around 10:30 in the morning. What woke me was the silence: no kids playing, Saturday morning, "What the hell is going on?" She was gone. The vehicle was still parked in the parking lot; I could look out the window and see it. She's gone, the kids are gone...
She didn't come back until morning-afternoon. She'd been out walking. She walked to a location that was three-and-a-half miles from our apartment, and walked back. By the time she got back, our children were the color of those seats: their fingers were blue, their lips were blue, their ears were blue. We had to put them in a warm bath to warm them up; they were hypothermic. I was... I lost my temper. I was pretty pissed off. "What in the hell were you doing? Why?" Seven, eight hours out walking around. The children were soaked; she was soaked. "What in the hell were you doing?"
We fought... We fought for about an hour. She started cutting up vegetables for dinner, and we were still fighting. At some point I said something to the effect, "Are you out of your freakin' mind?" She turned around, she had a kitchen knife -- a serrated vegetable knife, the blade was about seven inches long. She turned around and she stabbed at me.
And as you can tell, I like to wear buttoned-down collars. I tried to block it, but I was surprised. I was off balance; I wasn't expecting it... I had lost it partially. But the knife hit the collar-stay of my shirt, and it penetrated into the collar, cut the collar, and partially penetrated the little plastic stay in the collar of my shirt. And gave me a little nick here on the collar of my neck.
She reared back her arm and tried to stab me again. And as I moved, tried to block, and let's just say I had an adrenaline moment, I hit her in the mouth. And I gave her a little fat lip, right here. She dropped the knife. She screamed. She ran to the telephone and called 9-1-1: "My husband is hitting me! I think he's gonna kill me."
Well, when she dropped the knife I stood over it. I wouldn't let her pick it up and put it away. I wouldn't let her hide the knife. I was gonna say, "See? She tried to stab me."
Four Sacramento county Sheriff's deputies vehicles rolled up; there was a total of seven deputies. As I explained to them what happened, he said, "Yeah, that's fine. Put your hands behind your back." I said, "No, wait a minute. She tried to stab...there's the knife. See the knife? She tried to stab...see my [motions toward neck wound] -- see?" [Officer:] "Put your hands behind your back. Turn around." I said, "No. She tried..." And they -- five of them -- drew their weapons.
And at that time, our daughters -- who were 5 and 3 -- when she stabbed me, when she tried to stick the knife in my throat, our daughters were in the kitchen with us. My daughters came running out of the back bedroom saying, "Leave my dad alone! Leave Daddy alone! Mamma tried to hit him with a knife. All he did was hit her back so she wouldn't hurt him."
One of the deputies was a woman. And she took the children in the bedroom and shut the door. She was back there with them for about 15 minutes, talking with them. In the meantime, the others still insisted that I turn around and put my hands behind my back. They cuffed me, they frisked me. I was standing there in front of my daughters, when they came out of the bedroom.
"Daddy's cuffed; Daddy's going to jail." And the female deputy said, "It's true. Both of the daughters saw it. She tried to hit him, she tried to stab him with the knife. That's what happened."
They took the cuffs off me and said, "Your wife obviously needs help." During this 15-20 minute period, while she was in the room with the kids, we were talking about my wife: what she did for a living, she was a nurse, she worked for Kaiser Permanente. They said, "If she works for Kaiser, you've got health insurance; you've got mental health insurance. You need to call the emergency number and get her an appointment"...
Now, isn't that strange? When she had a fat lip, it was a felony and I was going to jail. But when they finally agreed and realized that she tried to stab me in the neck... it stopped being a crime at that point, it was a mental health issue. [And] it was my responsibility to call and get her an appointment.
The plight of David and his daughter Maegan is detailed in my co-authored column Domestic Violence Lawsuit Will Help Secure Services for All Abuse Victims (Los Angeles Daily Journal, San Francisco Daily Journal, 12/28/05). Maegan told her story in Abused Man's Daughter Speaks Out--Maegan Talks About Her Childhood. Carol Crabson, Executive Director of the Valley Oasis domestic violence shelter--which has served male victims for 17 years--presented with David, and we'll also be providing some highlights from her speech in this series.
To read all reports from the Conference, please click here.
From Ideology to Inclusion 2009 featured some of the world's leading experts on domestic violence, many of whom serve on the Editorial Board of the new peer-reviewed academic journal, Partner Abuse, published by Springer Publishing Company. The conference was presented by the California Alliance for Families & Children and co-sponsored by The Family Violence Treatment & Education Association. Some of you may remember that I also wrote extensively about the 2008 conference--to learn more, click here.
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June 30th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
That qualifies as one of the sickest pieces of police work I have ever read. Talk about no "equal protection". I'll bet that the female cop tried to dissuade the children as to what they saw, and only believed their story when all effort failed to convince them otherwise. Not because she was a female cop, but because she was a cop.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:10 am
While a lot of women need mental help, that's no excuse for this. Anyone who uses a weapon against another, except in self defense, should be locked away for life, be it in an institution or jail. They should never see the light of day again. How much worse if the children have to witness it? This is insanity. What a stupid, petty, self-centered wench.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:50 am
seven cops for a dv call? That seems a little excessive. And five of them drew their weapons? Ludicrous. The police in that town are either overly-aggressive or very bored.
July 1st, 2009 at 6:53 am
that they had a fight is something we all have been through. that she started the violence (not just he said she said but with witnesses) is also something we have all been through. the rest is out of a texas chainsaw massacre movie. his whole life was in the hands of a female cop, who it looks like, did the right thing. dodged a bullet there. wonder how his commitment level is doing. all i hear anymore is how men won't commit to relationships and marriage.
July 1st, 2009 at 7:50 am
How times change. In another lifetime long ago, years before the OJ Simpson prosecution, I was young and mixed up with a fellow who started using illicit drugs to greater and greater degrees. Long and short of it was he broke into my apartment (he didn’t live there) gave me a black eye and a busted lip, among other things and ripped the phone out of the wall. When he finally passed out, I fled to the local police station, which was at the edge of the property to the apartment complex I lived in. Since it was a small town, the office wasn’t manned late at night so I drove to the State Police post a couple of miles away. The State Police told me that they didn’t want to step on the local boys toes and to go back to the local Police Station and they would have someone meet me there. When a cruiser pulled up and I told them my story the one Officer blankly told me that since they hadn’t witnessed anything there was nothing they could do, especially since I was not married to the man and had no children. I was relatively new to that area and didn’t many people. I had nowhere to go. I had to sleep in my car and the next day when I was certain he was gone, I packed up my stuff and lived in my car for two weeks until I could get a different apartment. I had to lie to my boss (I worked in a financial institution) and say I had been in a car accident to avoid being fired. People don’t feel confident depositing their money in a bank where the tellers look like boxers.
Years later that man was tried and convicted for trying to blow his then current girlfriends head off with a shotgun.
Yes, I made a very poor choice in the man I kept company with I was young and dumb. I learned my lesson. Even so, I deserved some protection.
I guess I’m sharing this to show the ineptitude of some of those that are supposed to serve and protect and how they most likely have their hands tied by the current party line. I guess twenty-five years ago a single, childless woman had no right to such protection.
July 1st, 2009 at 8:05 am
The fact that the law enforcement community can now "cash in" on male arrest statistics from the VAWA act, and not cash in in womens arrests statistics,leads to innocent men being arrested, and violent women being enabled.
The VAWA act is a violation of the equal protection clause of the U.S.constitution, and is tearing apart society. The first signs of the sickness are a nations children, and U.S children are the most "medicated??" children in the world.
Welcome to the Prozack nation, and anyone who speaks out against the juggernaut is seen as a "misogynist"
July 1st, 2009 at 8:12 am
kim says "I guess I’m sharing this to show the ineptitude of some of those that are supposed to serve and protect and how they most likely have their hands tied by the current party line. I guess twenty-five years ago a single, childless woman had no right to such protection."
MCA says, wow, that story seems so unreal that it's almost as if you're making up stories, (but I'm sure you're not). Modern America is a much, much different place where violent women are enabled by police departments, and innocent non violent men get arrested and removed from their childrens lives.
July 1st, 2009 at 8:18 am
I guess I’m sharing this to show the ineptitude of some of those that are supposed to serve and protect and how they most likely have their hands tied by the current party line. I guess twenty-five years ago a single, childless woman had no right to such protection.
Yes it is important to bear in mind that the way DV is handled ebbs and flows depending on what approach yields the most reward (political brownie points, funding, fame, etc...). Twenty five years ago the most gain was had from automatically siding with the man regardless of truth and what position the woman was left in. Today (no matter how badly women's advocates want to deny it) the most gain is to be had from siding with the woman regardless of truth and what position the man was left in. (This also explains why politicians don't want to touch homosexual DV (HDV)with a ten foot pole. To acknowledge there are victims of HDV is to acknowledge that there are homosexual couples and support for victims of HDV could be seen as supporting same sex marriage and we all know what sort of landmine that subject is these days.
July 1st, 2009 at 9:00 am
My ex has, since our divorce, attacked 5 other people, two of them with a knife. Nothing happens to her.
This attitude that, even if she was the sole antagonist, it's the man's fault, is why I'm *never* going to get married again, or co-habitate in any way, shape or form, ever. NO ONE is ever going to have that power over me again.
July 1st, 2009 at 9:11 am
Offended_Dad Says:
July 1st, 2009 at 9:00 am
My ex has, since our divorce, attacked 5 other people, two of them with a knife. Nothing happens to her.
This attitude that, even if she was the sole antagonist, it's the man's fault, is why I'm *never* going to get married again, or co-habitate in any way, shape or form, ever. NO ONE is ever going to have that power over me again.
====================
I completely agree. Marraige/co-habitation is just too risky.
I think nomarraige.com has it right.
July 1st, 2009 at 9:38 am
Kim says
"I guess I’m sharing this to show the ineptitude of some of those that are supposed to serve and protect and how they most likely have their hands tied by the current party line. I guess twenty-five years ago a single, childless woman had no right to such protection."
As sad as your story is, you are telling it so we once again realize man bad/women victim
July 1st, 2009 at 9:57 am
Kim and Danny have it wrong. Law enforcement did not side with the man twenty five years ago they were just more hands-off. As the Nanny State has grown at the behest of women, law enforcement has not unsurprisingly become active supporters of women. Just the way female voters want it.
July 1st, 2009 at 10:05 am
Wayne,
Actually, that was not my intent and I hesitated before posting it. I am very sensitive to that issue. I know beyond a doubt that there are good, even great men as well as bad men. The same is true for women. I guess my thought is more along the line that inevitably the powers that be will get it wrong no matter the gender, except that in today’s world the Feminist agenda with the complicity of the Family Court industry making billions off of so-called victims, that villainizing (sp) all men is now the current party line and it is a far worse tragedy than what I experienced. I was a single, young woman. What the Family Law Industry is doing affects millions of children and their fathers.
July 1st, 2009 at 11:04 am
I guess it's all part of the plan, and here's what the feminist agenda has done. Traditional roles of men and women have changed greatly over the last 45 years or so. Today women have a free pass to leave there traditional role if they desire at anytime and they are supported, example: taking away a man choice of abortion it happens all the time. For men on the other hand it is illeagal for men to leave their traditional role as providers and protectors it is greatly frowned upon. Example: If a man wants his girlfriend to have an abortion and she doesn't he's trapped with support payments and if he doesn't pay, he goes to jail.
July 1st, 2009 at 11:43 am
Ariel, on the mark.
Kim P 25 years ago was 1984 and I distinctly recall police and feminist attitudes towards men to be just as bad as it is now. To say 25 years ago women didnt get the protection they do now is fallacy and myth. Its most likely as you lived next to the police station they were well aware of who you were and who you were seeing long before your incident. You played with fire and when you got burned you screamed uh uh but im a girl. I would have left you to it as well.
I mean you no disrespect but to much I see women play tough or hang with the cool crowd then cry im a girl when it gets to difficult to keep up the act.
As for police we all really know how these creeps really are. Unfortunately they have the guns and we have the bills.
July 1st, 2009 at 12:17 pm
I've got a great idea folks, why don't we just meet in the middle on this one..both male and female to be held accountable to the same legal standards when it comes to domestic violence.
If we do not do it for ourselves, then lets do it for the children who should not have to grow up around violent men or violent women.
July 1st, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Law enforcement did not side with the man twenty five years ago they were just more hands-off.
Interesting. I've never thought about it that way before. So you're saying its not so much that the police actively helped abusive men but instead they actively ignored abused women. Whereas today they actively help abusive women (namely by going to great lengths to "prove" that she becamse abusive through no fault of her own, a courtesy that is rarely extended to abusive men) and ignore abused men. Interesting...
July 1st, 2009 at 2:41 pm
All I keep thinking is I missed a heckuva conference : (
But it's still exciting isn't it, seeing that although the men's movement will hit plateaus and seem to fade at times, it's still a rock under the rapids.
Sometimes it's frustrating to feel like the men's movement has come so far, then seems set back when so many politicians and gov keep promoting misandry.
But if I've learned anything in life, it's the the turtle beating the rabbit. Slow and steady wins the race. The misandric feminist entities are fast and swift with their tax-payer funded establishments in using them to blanket-rape men boys and fathers of their rights and dignity.
But they're not solid. Their foundation is weak, built of lies, omissions, fabrications, manipulations and smokescreens.
A foundation of lies is eventually taken apart as the truth emerges. We've watched this happen, one lie at a time. Through the persistence of individuals fighting for men/boys rights, researching, finding facts, sharing them with the public.
Piece by piece the lies are exposed, the truth is revealed, from the alleged gender wage gap, to the domestic violence statistics, to the exposing of family court bias.
Big conferences like this are encouraging and the thorough coverage of them on sites like are as well. All comes back to the most effective method of change; spreading the knowledge.
July 1st, 2009 at 6:05 pm
After reading this article this definitely shows that there is still not equality in society as far as men and women.There is no reason why the dad should have been arrested or ev en harrassed by the police for defending hisself and they not even say anything to the wife.I feel if anything they both should of been apprehended until the police actually knew what happen. Another thing is even if the dad was at fault how is it he would have went to jail but since the wife was the one commiting domestic violence she just needed mental help. Societies view on gender is all screwed up.Women want the same rights as men but when it comes to certain events they want to be left out.The wife probably did have a mental issue since she almost killed her kids taking a walk in 36 degree weather but she should of still went to jail because she tried to stab her husband. A punch is way less harmful than a stab so why is she not facing any consequences?
July 1st, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Kim,
I am glad you survived your situation. Should you ever happen to be at a feminist blog and read someone dismissing another by writing "But what about the menz!" I am sure you'll understand our frustration and I ask you to speak up in support.
July 1st, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Alexander,
I agree with your statement that the police were wrong for harrassing the man before they were sure of what happen but they reacted off instinct. The woman was the one who called in saying she was being attacked and the knife was right under the man so they went off visual, but as you can see when the officers got the real info he was let go. I also agree that women's consequences are not as harsh as men and as a women i dont feel it should be changed(gotta look out for the woman.lol), but if woman want to be equal they should be equal in everyway.
July 1st, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Dear Kiesha,
I think you are thinking like most women would they want to have the same rights as men but when it comes to consequences they cant handle it, and i feel if you want equal rights you have to take all of them the good and the bad.
July 1st, 2009 at 7:11 pm
sol Says:
July 1st, 2009 at 11:43 am
Its most likely as you lived next to the police station they were well aware of who you were and who you were seeing long before your incident. You played with fire and when you got burned you screamed uh uh but im a girl. I would have left you to it as well.
I find it hard to believe that the Police knew of me or my then boyfriend. There were about 20 apartment units with about 12 units per building in that complex. There was never any incident before or after this one and it was a nice quiet community.
As far as me screaming I was a girl, that never happened. I wasn't there as a girl beaten I was there as a human that had been beaten.
You seem to have jumped to a conclusion that that police officer also had. And as I said in my original post I cut all ties with that man instantly and even went to the extreme measure of finding a new residense. I may have been dumb in the beginning but I learned quick.
And since you "would have left [me] to it as well" it seems as though your brand of justice and protection prevailed.
So when a human chooses to date another of questionable character it is no ones fault but their own. Fine. But he/she still has a basic right to not be beaten and to be protected and allowed to prosecute their attacker. I was never given that option.
Call it backwoods justice if you will or a lazy public servant or one that had heard it all before.
July 1st, 2009 at 7:12 pm
oops, I messed up the html. how can I fix it?
July 1st, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Sorry to upset you Kim P but you did point out that it was a small town and that this boyfriend was progressively getting worse with his use. Were you using? Thats what the police would be thinking and chances are the boyfriend would be known to them if he was getting in that deep.
"So when a human chooses to date another of questionable character it is no ones fault but their own. Fine. But he/she still has a basic right to not be beaten and to be protected and allowed to prosecute their attacker. I was never given that option. "
But you see what makes their character questionable is their tendency towards use and violence so grown ups look at it like you were asking for it and maybe even adding to it, they would also see you as condoning the same behavior in their children because you and your boyfriend would have been the town druggies as far as they knew. Why should they help you prosecute because you were mad that you thought you were tough enough to fight a guy but when you lost you were not so tough or smart anymore and cried im a girl help me.
But the million dollar question is, who picked the fight and did you hit him?
July 1st, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Danny - "So you're saying its not so much that the police actively helped abusive men but instead they actively ignored abused women."
Not exactly. You need to remove the genders from your statement. If Kim had been a he then he would have received the same treatment that she received as a she. The police have never had a history of helping abused men.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:58 am
"I also agree that women's consequences are not as harsh as men and as a women i dont feel it should be changed(gotta look out for the woman.lol), but if woman want to be equal they should be equal in everyway."
So, I take it you do not want to be equal in every way?
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:28 am
sol,
Sol you are dead on having never heard of mens rights or even anything about femminist groups, i had a conversation with a fellow marine. Our conversation was about how men always got screwed when having any dealings with a woman. Even back then women where held to the accountability of children. I remember coming back to my friend later with only a couple of news paper clippings with articles showing the female discount on everything. Iwas only 19 years old at the time and picked up on it. And now it is really bad look at the female teachers having sex with students and the how the law and society in general treats them vice what a man gets. Look at how women can kill their kids, drop them of to abandon them, and how they seem to be able to openly lie in family court. I have a new eye for women now. I don't see women the same way I used to. This article is just one more example of how destuctive femminism can be to a society.
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:35 am
Keisha: "I also agree that women's consequences are not as harsh as men and as a women i dont feel it should be changed(gotta look out for the woman.lol), but if woman want to be equal they should be equal in everyway."
Then you don't deserve to be equal.
Part of being "equal" means taking responsiblity for your actions and accepting any consequences that come your way. Includes things like commiting acts of crime and violence.
You can look out for the women all you want just because they're women. I'm not. Anyone, regardless of gender, who is guilty of a crime should receive the punishment as fits the crime. No special considerations because of their gender.
Sorry, Keisha, but your brand of equality is nothing but special privledges.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Scott66:
Danny - "So you're saying its not so much that the police actively helped abusive men but instead they actively ignored abused women."
Not exactly. You need to remove the genders from your statement. If Kim had been a he then he would have received the same treatment that she received as a she. The police have never had a history of helping abused men.
So let me try this again.
"So you're saying its not so much that the police actively helped abuser but instead they actively ignored the abused?"