Hofstra Woman Cries 'Rape,' Recants
September 17th, 2009 by Robert Franklin, Esq.So you're a young man, say about 20 years old. On the night of September 14th, the police arrest you and three of your friends. It seems an 18-year-old woman has accused the four of you and another man or raping her that night. She's a student at Hofstra University.
You're handcuffed, taken to jail, booked and tossed into a cell. You're facing up to a 25-year stretch in the penitentiary if you're found guilty. Meanwhile, the Long Island daily Newsday has an article about you and your friends headlined "Police: Hofstra Student Raped on Campus, 4 Arrested."(Newsday, 9/14/09) The New York Post plays it this way, "Hofstra Victim Lured With Phone." (New York Post, 9/15/09) They both have photos of you and your friends. And then online publications like this one chime in here, none too originally, with "Hofstra Student Raped on Campus, 4 Arrested: Police." (Huffington Post, 9/15/09) It uses the word "rapist" to describe you. And there's your photo again.
If you don't look exactly like every tabloid's favorite young black thug, at least you look pretty sullen, which is what people tend to look like when they've just been arrested for rape. Those mug shots have a way of saying "Guilty."
Now all of this has you scared half to death. Plus you've been identified as a rapist from coast to coast. Your name and photo are everywhere, right under that word 'Raped.' And you're behind bars which feels like this,
"To be a caged animal when you are not guilty is the worst."
Or this,
"I'm 19. I have my whole life in front of me, and suddenly it was all over. I was facing 5 to 25 years in jail."
Luckily, the woman takes only two days before she tells the police the truth - that she made it up. The sex was consensual. And that's a big relief. At least you won't be facing a stretch in stir that's longer than you've lived so far. But there are still those headlines, still those photos and still that word.
Danmell Ndonye told police that five men had tied her up with rope and raped her repeatedly in the bathroom of her Hofstra dormitory. She screamed for help, but, at 3 a.m., no one heard her. Police called it a "vicious" attack. News media repeated verbatim what the police said. No one wondered; no one asked you if it were true.
But luckily, one of your friends had a cell phone and he photographed the whole scene. There was no rope and no screaming, just consensual sex.
Ndonye has been suspended from Hofstra. The district attorney is considering criminal charges against her. As of this writing, neither the Huffington Post nor Newsday has divulged her name, even though all articles name the men. Why is Ndonye still anonymous in those publications? They're not saying, but the DA's office is:
Phillips said prosecutors are not releasing the woman's name at this time, both because she has not been charged with a crime, and because they fear for her safety.
Hmm. I wonder if a man falsely accused of rape might fear for his safety. I guess not since, if he would, they wouldn't release his name, right?
As far as I can tell, none of this violates any journalistic standards, so none of the young men should expect an apology any time soon. None should expect news media to start using the word "alleged" to describe the accused. And none should expect the presumption of innocence to really mean something in the press. No, when it comes to the media, everyone's hands are squeaky clean in this case.
So young man, you ought to feel OK. You only spent two days inside and the DA has dropped the charges, so everything's back to normal. Just forget all about your picture in all those papers, right under that word. After all, everyone else will. Won't they?
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September 17th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
I cover this in considerable -- and angry -- detail at False Rape Society. Three of the most disgusting aspects are: (1) The way the NY Post reported the alleged rape last Tuesday: "An 18-year-old Hofstra University co-ed was gang-raped by five men on campus, cops said last night. The shocking attack took place Sunday at around 3 a.m. Cops would not say whether the victim knew any of the men beforehand or where on the sprawling Hempstead, LI, campus she was assaulted." If you read that, you'd think that a rape had occurred. And (2) In another story today, a couple of Hofstra students are quoted as saying they aren't sure or don't think the false accuser committed a crime. And (3) While the D.A. fears for her safety, one of the young men actually received a death threat in jail -- because that's what happens to men accused of rape.
September 17th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
It is now 7 years since my ex attacked me and claimed to the cops that I had attacked her, I am still feeling the effects, and I do not think they will ever go away. God alone knows how I would be if she'd cried "rape".
September 17th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Thats what led me to mens rights, A false rape accusation.
I believe that the current gender feminist / law enforcement misinformation Alliance..is enabling girls to make false rape accusations to a degree that is causing serious harm to innocent men/boys.
The current law enforcement practice of re-defining what the meaning of is, is, in order to manufacture the statistic that only 2% of rape accusations are false (when false rape acussations are really closer to 50% )...is manufacturing a legal prejudice against innocent men/boys.
This new gender feminist / law enforcement misinformation Alliance is around 30 years old now, but who gave them the authority to start manufacturing faulty and inflammatory misinformation in the first place. Is this in their constitutionally granted "policing powers"??
September 17th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
I'd like to see her serve some time in jail, pay a fine, receive several years of probation, and a few hundred hours of community service.
Her community service would involve helping actual rape victims; something like volunteering in an emergency room. She needs to see how horrifying rape is for those who actually suffer it.
False allegations harm men all the time, but I think it also harms legitimate rape victims, past, present and future.
September 17th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
"False allegations harm men all the time, but I think it also harms legitimate rape victims, past, present and future."
Of course it does. Remember the story of the little boy who cried wolf? Reverse the gender, same story.
September 17th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
The reason for the misinformation Alliance is.."that if false rape accusers are charged, then it will deter real rape victims from coming forward"... seems illogical, and i would like to see the the data where this assertion comes from.
But one very real result of this misinformation alliance, is that it is enabling false rape accusers, and is manufacturing a prejudice against men/boys..BASED ON FAULTY AND INFLAMMATORY manufactured misinformation.
September 17th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
From HuffPo- "Her actions and demeanor depict a very troubled young woman in need of much help," the prosecutor said.
Well, gosh, I hope the prosecutor has sufficient public funds available to get this very troubled young woman the help she needs. I mean, punishment would be so inappropriate, considering she's troubled and all. All week long- women doing really horrible things, stabbing children to death, raping children, falsely accusing several men of rape- and the response consistently is "Gosh, she's troubled!' This woman's name and picture should be plastered all over campus, all over the Internet, so that other men will know to avoid her.
I'll bet the university or prosecutor goes after at least one of the falsely accused men on some other claim or charge.
September 17th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
"But luckily, one of your friends had a cell phone and he photographed the whole scene. There was no rope and no screaming, just consensual sex."
So... even though it was the word of 4 men against nothing more than the word of 1 woman, the police, the news media, and just about the whole world had already decided that these guys were guilty?
I guess these guys learned their lesson. No consensual sex without a witness and a video.
September 17th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Let me give you a foreigner's perspective -
I remember growing up watching movies in a very "patriarchal" society that recollecting rape was just as evil as the rape itself. And when the evil man wants to "defend" himself in court, he proceeds to demand the recounting of the rape. (If you are familiar with Bollywood movies, you will easily recognize the type.. , if the movie has a rape - this is pretty common theme to have - its so ubiquitous!) For a while, I too - as any child growing up there - started believing that it must be so. And indeed there is some fact to it - i.e. traumatic incidents do inflict a similar, even though diminished stress on the victim.
What I did not realize is that when it comes to punishing a "evil" man in real life - it matters whether he actually committed the crime. And what else can he do but to gather the presented "evidence" and poke holes in it - just to save himself from imprisonment? It was only after a long time that I realized, that the life of the man mattered too and he should not be just be punished merely on the say-so of a woman, which according to Indian law - is not to be reexamined in court proceedings in cases of rape.
To all those that think foreign women are better spouses - think again.
September 17th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
http://bikerbernie.wordpress.com/2009/09/17/again-men-jailed-on-false-rape-woman-still-free/
b
September 17th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
The woman was troubled all right...she let 5 guys have sex with her one after the other. But, I'm sure that NEVER happens to anyone who is not troubled. Right?
Shameful. Throw the book at her. And, once again, the same old no response from Jessica Valenti at Feministing. And nothing from NOW. Nothing from Amanda at S.S. Must be embarrassing to them...
September 17th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Jane Velez-Mitchell thinks there is a war on women. She should try this on for size. The number of men jailed because a woman says she was raped and then states she was lying seems to be having an exponential growth rate. I am not justifying, but people wonder why some men harbor anomosity toward women, it seems pretty clear to me. Adding insult to injury is that these women who recant their rape claim rarely have charges filed against them. They broke the law and yet they almost always skate. Interestingly, what also seems to be increasing is that the woman do not just make a rape claim against one but rather several men, this and the Duke case come to mind. This is not a flattering commentary on women and their sexuality. I suppose that womens groups would take issue with derogatory sexual comments about these women when it is nothing but true.
How can we keep men safe on campus?
It seems that the same methods that we tell women to use to keep them self safer backfire on men. Instead of keeping men safer, staying in groups ensures that at the hands of one dangerous woman, most or all the men in the group will go to jail, at the same time that a woman who admits to COMMITTING A CRIME remains free. OK, now I get it, be in a group of 5 men, all stating that they did not commit a crime, let alone rape and jail them when they say that they are innocent. Then we take a woman who freely admits to a crime, but we do not jail her, because we have to investigate if she done anything wrong when by her own admission she committed a crime. Am I crazy or is this utterly absurd? Then we have Nassau County District Attorney Kathleen Rice who said her office has launched a criminal investigation into the woman’s statements. What in the hell is there to investigate? She admits to a crime and she is allowed to run free until there is an investigation?
I can see it now a man walks into a police station states that he is the person that killed Annie Le and they say “OK, thanks for the information but you are going to remain free amoung the population until we investigate.” Arrest the “woman” and I say woman because women when they are the criminal have their identity protected, as apposed to the men who have done nothing wrong, we have all of their names. Stalin Felipe, 19, Rondell Bedward, 21, Jesus Ortiz, 19, all of the Bronx, and Kevin Taveras, 20, of Brentwood, faced 25 years in prison if convicted, Bedward, had been suspended by the university.
Where is the equal protection under the law? It is non-existant in this misandric country, but remember, women need more protection and not men, yeah, right!
b
September 17th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
I saw that war on women bit last night. What a joke! Who cares what HLN or any of those liberal media outlets says! That show was too funny...the most sensationalistic piece of crap journalism that there is...Velez-Mitchell is a total loser....
September 17th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Do I understand correctly? Only after being presented with proof, did she admit she
was not raped? Then who gives a damn if she recanted or not? Pretty much seems
the media feels the need to give her credit for some basic human decency that nobody knows if she has. She DID NOT admit a lie, she was PROVED a liar.
And Bernie, for female supremacists, equal protection for women is an equality issue;
equal protection for men is a male entitlement issue.
September 17th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Mike said: "no response from Jessica Valenti at Feministing. And nothing from NOW. Nothing from Amanda at S.S. Must be embarrassing to them..."
Mike, I think you might be projecting. I'm not sure any of these women are capable of feeling embarrassment as you and I know it. I believe that a man has a capacity for understanding why he should feel embarrassed that a woman structurally does not have, does not have it because she cannot have it. She's just incapable of it.
September 17th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
I was wondering if this is a case where the girl was intoxicated and felt embarrassed about the whole situation and made up this story or she could be seriously troubled any normal women would understand the dangers involved in having sex with many partners and I find it very strange that those students found nothing wrong in doing this this was not normal no matter if she was consensual these students for many reason did not use strong judgement and character and disregard for the safety of the girl and their own what if nobody had a cell phone to take pictures would the case have gone to court I strongly believe what this girl did she should be held accountable and if she is guilty should serve time in prison and also this could be a good opportunity to educate the students about using good judgment their actions were careless I know each women are responsible for their choice but in this case maybe she wasn't and those guys should have known better
they took advantage of the situation and had no respect for this girl it is not a question of who is right or wrong but what is good judgment
September 17th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
Mikey M wrote: I know each women are responsible for their choice but in this case maybe she wasn't and those guys should have known better they took advantage of the situation and had no respect for this girl it is not a question of who is right or wrong but what is good judgment
#1 - You're excuse-making for the criminal in this situation and blaming the innocent. Don't let your own personal morality issues about the sexual encounter cloud your judgment because...
#2 - FIVE men's lives were at stake. It was nothing else if it wasn't a question of who is right and who is wrong. It absolutely is. She was wrong. She committed a heinous crime. She should face stiff punishment for it.
September 17th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
...AND... I might add, if not for the discovery of the video - these guys were going to be found guilty. The fact is, they were guilty the moment she filed the complaint and there was no way she was recanting once that ball started rolling swiftly downhill, as it so often does in cases like this.
The men left evidence all over the place and there isn't a jury alive that would have found 5 big men NOT guilty of raping an innocent young woman like that. After all, who would possibly believe that a woman as a sexual being would want to have consensual sex with many men, one after the other, all during the same encounter?
They're all over the internet.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:43 am
please let us know what they do about her false accusation
September 18th, 2009 at 12:46 am
Just sickening.
@ Pierce, do you know if the NY Times has even offered any form of apology to these young men?
These boys need to sue her, the University, and all the Media outlets that defamed their character. Take this shit to the bank, you fellas deserve it! She needs to be working on a chain gang somewhere serving 20+.
Just sick.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:52 am
To mrcustodycoach,
Your answers are very valid and I total agree with your defense for the students but this is not a morality issue even if it comes out this way the point I am trying to make is the fact that 5 men saw nothing wrong about having sex with a single girl what if this was a someone you know we are not animals who are guided by lust but by the respect we have for each other. I am glad those students will not face prosecution and have been exonerated but what they did was careless and a total disregard for the mental state of this girl know this will sound outrageous and I am going to get crucified for saying this but even if a girl accept to have sex with 5 MEN there is something terribly wrong with this women and all of us should condemn this type of behavior for little of what it was worth these students took a big risk for their safety it is up to them to protect themselves and it is also up to them to use fair judgment concerning sexual conduct with a girl.
September 18th, 2009 at 1:43 am
Mike said:
"And, once again, the same old no response from Jessica Valenti at Feministing. And nothing from NOW. Nothing from Amanda at S.S. "
Look....blogs, including this one, are free to choose whichever stories they want to cover -- or not cover. No single blog is going to report all the injustices committed in the world..
ClarenceOveur Said:
"I'm not sure any of these women are capable of feeling embarrassment as you and I know it. I believe that a man has a capacity for understanding why he should feel embarrassed that a woman structurally does not have, does not have it because she cannot have it. She's just incapable of it."
You've never known a woman to get embarrassed, Clarence? Seriously?
September 18th, 2009 at 3:13 am
"ClarenceOveur Said:
"I'm not sure any of these women are capable of feeling embarrassment as you and I know it. I believe that a man has a capacity for understanding why he should feel embarrassed that a woman structurally does not have, does not have it because she cannot have it. She's just incapable of it."
You've never known a woman to get embarrassed, Clarence? Seriously?"
That was a quote from some feminist about men with the genders reversed. I think it falls under the category of sarcasm.
September 18th, 2009 at 4:18 am
Oh dear. Another attack of the humorless and tone deaf. It seems pretty clear that Clarence was being facetious in paraphrasing a feminist quote, not making a literal assertion.
I have noticed on internet forums that irony tends to go straight over the head of a lot of people. It is best to put an irony alert in. Or else be prepared for an indignant refutation.
September 18th, 2009 at 5:59 am
It's generally best to put quotes inside " " otherwise it's difficult for people to appreciate what you're trying to do.
Ironic or not, I'd not read the original quote before (although now it's been pointed out, it does look a lot like something a feminist hack would come out with about men) so I'd have struggled to get the joke.
Getting back on track, has anyone browsed around the rest of the links on the site that Robert links to above? Check out the columnist's piece where she tries to find every possible excuse for the young lady's actions whilst taking a couple of potshots at the young men.
Even granted that they were probably unwise to engage in group sex of this sort in a toilet, I love the fact that they must take complete responsibility for their actions whilst she's given a free pass. It can't possibly be down to her sexuality that she engaged in a group-sex session, she has to be 'troubled' or somehow not able to say no.
She posits that the questioning by the boyfriend is what led her to call Campus Security - yes! But probably because she was scared of him dumping her when he found out she'd gang-banged 5 other blokes in one short night, not because she didn't know what informed consent was.
Finally, note how the police were able to prove she wasn't telling the truth - from cellphone footage of the sex session. Moral of the story? If you're going to engage in 'risky' sexual behaviour make sure you capture it on film, otherwise the mutual consent you THOUGHT you'd established may not do you any good at all.
September 18th, 2009 at 7:07 am
Yes Barton, it is true that blogs can cover whatever they want, but a non-position on a blog like feministing, who espouses the old "every man is a rapist" routine, and regularly reports on 99% of most actual rapes picked up by the media, and rejects the obviously high percentage of false accusations, is very telling.
It must be noted that the feminists have alot to lose by coming out and recognizing false rape accusations: it makes them look like less of a victim, it males men not look as bad as they claim, and it might make some wonder about the use of monies for things like VAWA and DV shelters. so, in essence it really screws up their credibility each time one of these high-profile "rapes" occurrs and it turns out to be a lie.
September 18th, 2009 at 7:28 am
Lies about domestic violence and rape..ARE NOW ROUTINE. How does a society re-act when the dark is the light, and lies are the truth??? It goes into perpetual chaos!!
When the law enforcement community arrest men and boys, and let the women go..It is like they are harvesting the fruits of violence, and then re=spreading the seeds.
It is now a conflict of interest for the law enforcement community to fight crime..because NOW..they can cash in crime stats for cash and funding.
So what you end up with is a perpetual matriachal underclass of violence that will continue until the people have had enough, and start to hold their law enforcement communities accountable.
September 18th, 2009 at 8:23 am
NY Post has a great arrticle on this. She lied about it because her BF caught her after she had just got done having sex with them. Her first instict was "RAPE!". Good thing he convinced her to call public safety and didn't go after them with a gun and kill them huh. Of course it goes on to give the basic "She is a very troubled young woman in need of much help" quotes. Most troubling is this:
Nassau DA Kathleen Rice said. "A crime did not happen last Sunday at Hofstra."..Umm..yes it did. A woman filed a fake police report.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/twisted_motive_behind_rape_story_niSXmOMgjcr2RTJiRkacXJ
September 18th, 2009 at 8:27 am
why in the @#$@$ can people NOT SUE the journalists for NOT using the words alledged?
again - I hate to say it, but either they can be sued or they need to be shot.
September 18th, 2009 at 8:35 am
Not to mention the fact that it would have terrified half the people on campus.
We had a bogus storry like that in my own back yard.
A park we all take our kids to run and get some exercise was closed off with police tape about a year ago. It turns out that this lady was attacked right out of of the blue there. My step daughter cried when we went there after that because she was afraid her mother was going to get attacked too. Lots of other people in the area were afraid to through the beautiful trails out of fear.
Then it turns out this lunatic girl had staged the whole thing. She beat her head against a tree and sat their in the bushes with her pants down for 3 or 4 hours until someone came along and saw her. I don't even recollect why in the hell she did it now. Attention? Revenge against someone?
Her crime in my opinion wasn't just against what ever sap she was accusing. It was against the community, and the police force who ran around trying to find some monster who didn't exist. It doesn' t matter that it was all made up either, kids are still nervious there.
September 18th, 2009 at 9:02 am
M. Barassed wrote:
"False allegations harm men all the time, but I think it also harms legitimate rape victims, past, present and future."
I don't buy that. That's like saying every perpetrator of insurance fraud harms those that have legitimate claims on their insurance. What people on the rape victim's advocate line mean is that every time somebody proves that women can lie, that means one less chance of a slam dunk just for crying rape.
September 18th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Anybody who thinks the occasionally-misogynistic comments on this website are bad is free to read the presumptuous and bigoted comments on Huffpo or the horrifyingly racist comments on the Post.
The Huffpo ones are hilariously wrong in light of the truth (like one woman referencing Faludi and proclaiming an undeclared war against women).
The Post ones are just nightmarish dehumanizing racism that would make the Furher proud.
September 18th, 2009 at 9:23 am
From this we can assume that everyone has already forgotten about the Duke Lacrosse case?
September 18th, 2009 at 9:34 am
John, yes is does vicitimize legitimate rape victims. Right now legitimate rape victims benefit from the public's belief that no woman would lie about a thing like rape. And there are many cases of rape where there is no physical evidence and it comes down to the word of one person against another. Each time an incident like this happens it erodes the public trust in women who accuse someone of rape.
I agree that we need to go back to having high standards of proof for rape like we do for other crimes because it's not fair to send innocent men to jail. But this will come at a price for some actual rape victims who will be unable to prove the rape. You can bet that the police and the DA in Nassau County will look at rape claims more skeptically in the future - as they should - but this will no doubt hurt some future real rape victims in that area. This woman has hurt future rape victims.
Your insurance analogy is equally wrong - if you file false insurance claims you raise rates which cost money for everyone who buys insurance.
September 18th, 2009 at 9:36 am
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/suspects_freed_as_co_ed_recants_7m7ryFfi3H9iKxqacO6b3O?offset=20
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/16/hofstra.rape/index.html?iref=newssearch
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,551523,00.html
Well at least the recanting did get some main stream coverage. But I'll have to admit, I read it here first.
September 18th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Isn't illegal to have sex in a public bathroom ? Since they have proof, the video, they should all be arrested. The girl and all the guys.. PEOPLE SHOULD BE ARRESTED FOR HAVING SEX IN PUBLIC BATHROOMS.
September 18th, 2009 at 9:41 am
rafael,
you forget that false insurance claims do not raise any rates for those who do not buy insurance!
The problem isn't a choice between "letting criminals go" and "prosecuting innocent men". The problem lies in the fact that the "law enforcement" if it fails to protect the victim from rape nor provide retributive justice - suffers no loss. For all they care (apart from their sense of justice), the Prosecutors and courts can let every accused walk or can prosecute everyone accused. Makes no difference to them - apart from loosing credibility (for me they have none whatsoever!).
It is interesting that some people don't trust profit motive but are willing to trust a "maintain credibility" motive for something as important as enforcement of law!
September 18th, 2009 at 11:12 am
"Look....blogs, including this one, are free to choose whichever stories they want to cover -- or not cover. No single blog is going to report all the injustices committed in the world.. "
Sure. Feminist blogs are free to be biased; and others are free to criticize their bias.
September 18th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Check out the comments section on the NYTIMES, btw. If I'm reading both the article and the comments right, one woman accused a hispanic male and another one was African American. Hmm, false rape accusations against minorities. What does that remind me of? I'd love to give you a clue but I'd hate to leave you hanging, so to speak.
September 18th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
mike Says:
September 17th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
I saw that war on women bit last night. What a joke! Who cares what HLN or any of those liberal media outlets says! That show was too funny...the most sensationalistic piece of crap journalism that there is...Velez-Mitchell is a total loser....
==========
Mike,
You have to care because they are influencing millions of minds and convincing them of their agenda. You have to watch and care to stay informed. This is like spying on the enemy and knowing what they are up to allows us to be able to combat their agenda and conspiracy.
b
September 18th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Mikey M Says:
September 17th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
I know each women are responsible for their choice but in this case maybe she wasn't and those guys should have known better
they took advantage of the situation and had no respect for this girl it is not a question of who is right or wrong but what is good judgment
=======
Mikey,
No you do not know that each woman is responsible for their choice or you would not have qualified that statement with in this case maybe she wasn't. You just let this woman off the hook for her choice, to get drunk and have sex with 5 men.
Maybe she took advantage of them. Maybe she knew that appearing drunk and that they were drunk also, she could satisfy a sexual fantasy of having 5 men and afterward be able to claim "drunk" if word got around about her promiscuous behavior, this way she does not even have to accept responsibility for her ravenous sexual appetite.
Sorry but the person who has 5 sexual partners is the person who is taking advantage. Really, if I could get them to admit it, people would desire more to be to be the one rather than one of the five.
It is the very reason we condemn cheaters, because they are having their cake and eating it also. She is the one who like it or not more closely resembles the cheater, and the men resemble more the people whom which she is having the affair(s).
Simple really
b
September 18th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
john Says:
September 18th, 2009 at 12:43 am
please let us know what they do about her false accusation
========
I will try to do that for you also since I sent the story here
b
September 18th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
"our insurance analogy is equally wrong - if you file false insurance claims you raise rates which cost money for everyone who buys insurance." No. I was not comparing the false claimants with ALL people who buy homeownners insurance. I was comparing the false claimants with real claimants. And it does make sense because prosecuting false rape cases also costs time and money to every taxpayer And it's kinda funny that this condemnation is not raised as frequently or loudly as in other types of crime. Would you say that somebody who claims to have been assaulted but really hasn't hurts real victims of assault? Robbery, etc? Maybe you would, but I don't hear it that often. I would prefer the media to focus on the fact that this woman's accusations endangered one of the accused and damaged all five's reputation rather than what this may or may not do to a legitimate rape victim.
September 18th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
mrcustodycoach.com Says:
September 17th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
After all, who would possibly believe that a woman as a sexual being would want to have consensual sex with many men, one after the other, all during the same encounter?
They're all over the internet.
==============
I find it ironic that there is much more proof that women are more likely to participate in this multiple partner behavior then men.
b
September 18th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
rafael baptista Says:
September 18th, 2009 at 9:34 am
You can bet that the police and the DA in Nassau County will look at rape claims more skeptically in the future -
======
rafael,
No, they will not, it is not the PC thing to do.
b
September 18th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
You mean they might actually even START TO APPROACH the level of skepticism which should be applied in rape cases?
And that's a bad thing how?
Four men were arrested on a woman's word with no evidence other than her word. That's not justice; it's a lynching sanctioned by the State.
September 18th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Maybe this will teach young men to vet women better than they do just as women need to vet men. What the heck did they think would happen when they chose to have sex with one woman? She'd wouldn't cry rape? Common sense ladies and gents.
September 18th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
You're write, lormarie. Men face legal danger every time they associate with women. Perhaps men should learn to avoid all women under all circumstances. That's the only way men could have "common sense" in dealing with women.
I mean, a society where men shun and avoid women would make so much more sense than a society with a sane legal system, wouldn't it? But you're right, there's a problem and men have to deal with it by changing their behavior rather than questioning the system that is so lopsided against them.
September 18th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
A number of the comments posted here have had an underlying assumption, I think, that all five of the men had sex with the false rape accuser. It appears, from this article excerpt, that three of the five men claim not to have had sex with her:
"The Nassau County District Attorney's Office said Ndonye had sex with all five of the men, although Felipe, Ortiz and Bedward insist they didn't have sex with her. Several used condoms were found at the scene, sources said."
source: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/twisted_motive_behind_rape_story_niSXmOMgjcr2RTJiRkacXJ (I looked at that article as a result of Mike Lordi's comment, posted above, which included the link.)
It appears to me that thusfar there's agreement only to that five men were present and that two of the men had sex with her; as to the other three men, the DA's office allegedly stated that they did, and the men allegedly stated that they didn't.
September 18th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
I hope that there's no need to detail why it's important to not overstate negative actions. I think it's virtually certain that the DA's alleged comment "...there was no crime committed" was intended to be something like, "With regard to the question of the sex itself, there was no crime committed." Yes, it'd be ideal if a DA were perfectly precise in every statement. However, that's an inappropriate standard. With all due respect--and I've a lot of respect--for this blog site, the blog posts (by Glenn and/or Robert) do not necessarily always meet such a standard.
That's not to say that a clarification isn't in order. In evaluating that, please consider that, at least with regard to the article cited in my previous comment (which also cited Mike Lordi as having provided the link), within several lines of the quote re there having been no crime committed, the DA is quoted as stating that the false accuser might be charged:
-----------------------------
The suspects' redemption came only when Felipe's cousin told authorities that the fifth man had taped the sex romp and that it would clear them all.
Even though they had not seen the video, prosecutors asked Ndonye about it and whether it would back her version of events, and her story crumbled.
"The young woman admitted that all of the encounters with the young men were consensual," Nassau DA Kathleen Rice said. "A crime did not happen last Sunday at Hofstra."
Prosecutors moved quickly to drop the charges, and the men were freed late Wednesday.
Rice said Ndonye could be charged for filing a false report.
"She is a very troubled young woman in need of much help," she said.
--------------------------------------------------------------
source: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/twisted_motive_behind_rape_story_niSXmOMgjcr2RTJiRkacXJ (initially provided by Mike Lordi)
None of this is to take away from that (a) there appear to have been acts of defamation, which is horrific in itself, and that there have been additional horrific situations, including imprisonment, in-jail harrassment, firing, and suspension, and that (b) this sort of thing is worsened, and arguably made possible, by incorrect and inappropriate beliefs regarding such things as women's credibility, men's credibility, women's sexuality, and men's, and by insufficient due process and a female sentencing discount.
September 18th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Lormarie at 3:38 pm: does your comment give us license to victim blame WOMEN who've allegedly been raped? Or does your victim blaming shtick only work to blame MEN? Because just as no woman deserves to be raped, no man deserves to have a false rape claim made against him. Get it?
I might do a post on your comment over at my site, similar to this one: http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2009/09/hoftstra-false-rape-case-just-case-of.html
September 18th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Pierce, please re-read Lormarie's post. She states in part, "...just as women need to vet men," and her ending sentence, "Common sense ladies and gents." can be read as applying to those women (though it also can be read as applying only to readers).
September 18th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Bernie,
Why I did use the words " maybe she wasn't " responsible I was referring to the mental state that she was in at the time was she drunk?, was she drugged? in any case I still and will never believe that the behavior of the 5 men should be justified or excused or permitted and to believe this would be fantasized by a women in a public place there is something terribly wrong to accept this type of behavior from the young men of the new generation total disregard for human decency and I normally disagree with feminist propaganda but if they are concerned with behavior of this kind from the female perspective they are entirely right and maybe if this type of behavior could be discourage by educating young men society would not be so adamant concerning false accusations of rape if young men are to engage in dangerous sexual behavior they is always a chance thay will pay a high price
September 18th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
If a major news outlet says you are GUILTY of something isn't that something that can be sued over? Isn't "inocent until proven guilty" in your constitution or something?
September 18th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
That's the way I read it as well.
The big difference is that when men take advantage of the situation (rape) we punish them harshly, but when women take advantage of the situation (false allegations) no punishment comes.
Men hesitate to rape women, if not because a man sees that behavior as wrong then because that man knows he can be punished harshly if convicted of the crime. Women don't seem to hesitate to make false allegations, few women see it as wrong and there is no punishment to come.
We're not here to say "bad things shouldn't happen to men" because bad things will happen when people take risks. What we are saying is when those bad things are crimes, and false allegations ARE A CRIME, then the criminals should be punished! We need to resolve this lopsided tilt against men.
If this DA doesn't press charges, then this DA needs to be removed from office. We cannot allow those who will not respect our rights to govern us.
September 18th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
I regret not having thought to look at Pierce's blog for a means by which to email him my comment (regarding his response to Lormarie's post), thereby allowing him the opportunity to consider it in private and to post a retraction/update without the pressure of my having made a public comment about his comment.
Separately, let me note that Pierce's blog has excellent material re false rape charges, including sample text for writing to editors of publications who've referred to accusers / alleged victims as "victims." The text would be applicable to other accusations / alleged victim scenarios.
September 18th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
One of the underlying factors that have led to the degree of rape hysteria that we are currently consumed with in this country...is a thing called the " new gender feminist / law enforcement misinformation Alliance.
This misinformation Alliance manufactures and promulgates that only 2% of all rape accusations are false...when there are now many objective studies that show false rape accusations are NOW around 50% of the time.
The bigger question is when did the law enforcement community get into the business of manufacturing and then sending Faulty and Inflammatory misinformation to the public.
If the public is led to believe that only 2% of rape accusations are false, when the unfortunate reality is that NOW they are around 50% of all rape accusations...This faulty and inflammatory misinformation manufactures a very real prejudice against innocent men and boys. You add this prejudice, with other anti-male misinformation Alliances, and you have a perfect storm against innocent men/boys
September 18th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
I have read that the ???justification??? for this misinformation alliance...is that women and girls are being raped all over the place, behind nearly every closed door in America.."THEY JUST AREN'T TELLING". And that charging false Rape acussers is what is stopping these women from..."coming Forward".
I say this is hogwash...coming from hogs!!
September 18th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
I went over and read the comments on the HuffPo site, all nine pages. (so you didn't have to). Quite illuminating.
1. Commenter after commenter referenced the Duke Lacrosse abortion, and rubbed the other commenter's noses in it.
2. Commenter after commenter sneered at the fellow commenters who had jumpred to conclusions on this and called for the victims' heads on a pike.
3. Commenter after commenter slammed the HuffPo site itself for rushing to publish the victims' names and pictures and then mincing around with the perp's face and picture when the whole story came out.
4. One commenter kept naming her about every ten comments.
5. When some commenters tried to say this was a case of a rich white girl accusing some brothers, commenter after commneter set them straight and called them bigots.
Not bad for a certifiabely lefty site.
September 18th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
That's good news to hear Jim.
September 18th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Mike M wrote: "I am trying to make is the fact that 5 men saw nothing wrong about having sex with a single girl what if this was a someone you know we are not animals who are guided by lust but by the respect we have for each other."
This is difficult for some people to do, and I believe you're one of them. What you say above is not the issue here. It's also putting the blame on the men and none on the girl. What our opinions are of the sex act that the ALL engaged in, INCLUDING the girl, Mike... isn't the issue.
In fact, it distracts from the issue. We're all free to discuss and comment on what we want (pretty much) here... but you're argument is so small compared to the bigger issue that it doesn't even merit discussion.
Their consensual sex act is of no concern to me. What she did and the impact it has on our male children, female children, and society - now that's important.
September 18th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Mikey M writes: Why I did use the words " maybe she wasn't " responsible I was referring to the mental state that she was in at the time was she drunk?, was she drugged? in any case I still and will never believe that the behavior of the 5 men should be justified or excused or permitted and to believe this would be fantasized by a women in a public place there is something terribly wrong to accept this type of behavior from the young men of the new generation total disregard for human decency and I normally disagree with feminist propaganda but if they are concerned with behavior of this kind from the female perspective they are entirely right and maybe if this type of behavior could be discourage by educating young men society would not be so adamant concerning false accusations of rape if young men are to engage in dangerous sexual behavior they is always a chance thay will pay a high price.
There's Mikey M again... laying all of the blame and personal disgust at the feet of the men and none at the woman who allowed (up to) 5 guys screw her brains out in a men's bathroom.
September 19th, 2009 at 3:35 am
Mike Lordi wrote:
"Good thing he [the boyfriend] convinced her to call public safety and didn't go after them with a gun and kill them huh. "
IMO you're making it sound as if it's "normal" for a man to resort to violence and seek revenge, rather than go through legal channels (which the boyfriend was, in fact, recommending to the woman).
Maybe it wasn't your intent to stereotype men, but it comes across that way.
September 19th, 2009 at 11:09 am
It does seem to me that the sex act described is grotesque even if not prosecutable. That no one of the men regrets his animalistic participation in the act is a sad commentary on the state of our so called educated youth. I always thought that someone who appears to be impaired whether by drugs, alcohol or mental disability, is not a fair target for sexual exploitation.
September 19th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Stan..the girl was also the hog here, she wanted to screw 5 guys at once. And were not talking about old fashion valued "educated youth"..we are talking about youth that have grown up in the "gender raunch culture", where girls are doing this stuff.
The real problem here is when these new raunch girls want to bang the football team, or baseball team, and then their friends find out what a hog she has been...she wants to resort to "It was Rape". which it simply was not!!
September 19th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
So can they sue the papers or not? Can they sue the girl or not?