Her Neglect Killed 1 Child; Now She Wants Custody of Other 2
November 6th, 2009 by Robert Franklin, Esq.He was divorced. She had custody. But she had problems with drinking and drugs. So he reported her repeatedly to Child Protective Services, which took no action. One day his ex got drunk and passed out, leaving their four-year-old daughter trapped inside a car in the hot Arizona summer. The little girl, Haley Gray, died. Read about it here (KPHO, 11/04/09).
The father, John Gray, sued Arizona CPS for their negligence in failing to heed his warnings about his ex-wife's irresponsible and dangerous behavior. He won a $400,000 judgment. He also campaigned to get Arizona law changed. "Haley's Law" now requires CPS agencies in the state to obtain child abuse records from other states when well-founded allegations of abuse are made about a child in Arizona.
But John Gray still has a problem. He's got two other children with his ex-wife Celene Gray, and the family court in Phoenix can't seem to decide which parent to give custody of the children to. Now, on one hand you have a woman who's already been found to have allowed a child to die because she was too drunk to care for her. On the other you have the children's father who seems to have never done anything seriously wrong, although he's spent time in jail. He cared enough about his children to persistently warn CPS about the danger they were in at the hands of their mother. He even got the legislature to change the laws relating to how abuse allegations are handled.
That's too tough a decision for the court to make, apparently, so it's placed the children in the temporary custody of Celene's boyfriend, which is to say, in her custody. Well, at least they're old enough to get out of a hot car if they need to.
As the custody fight goes on, John Gray admits to not being perfect, but one might ask why he needs to be. According to Gray, "he's had anger issues." Gee, I wonder why.
"));
19 queries. 0.368 seconds.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
It would be nice to be able to do something about these travesties, but whenever I've tried to engage in serious conversations with other men I know, they seem to be more interested in talking about nonsense like "nascar" and "superbowl" and all manner of cartoonish drivel............I'm at a loss.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
putting children into the hands of violent and irresponsible women helps to feed the bloated American """helping bureaucracies"".
The only good "steady provider" jobs left are the pork-o-crat human services sectors that are still banking billions of dollars in state and federal pork. By making train wrecks out of our nations children..it means job security for the bloated human services sectors of the economy.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Yes, menscollege, thats true, and all people do is yak yak yak about it, then go on about their stupid meaningless pass-times....Its really quite sickening.
November 7th, 2009 at 12:20 am
Careful... the article specifically says: the state questioned whether he [John Gray] was a fit parent.
A few observations:
First, It's not a vengeful mother alleging that the father is unfit. Here it is the state itself. That doesn't mean the allegation is true. It equally doesn't mean the allegation is false. It is an allegation, nothing more, nothing less.
Second, Gray himself appears to acknowledge "anger issues", but this isn't defined or clarified anywhere. And even if true, his anger issues may, or may not, have any relevance to his fitness as a parent.
Third, this is an ongoing and unresolved custody dispute, whose records are under court seal and therefore not available to any third parties.
The point is that in a situation as murky and unclear and fluid as this, it is inappropriate for outsiders, who -- by definition -- have zero personal knowledge of the facts or parties in this case, to speculate or reach any conclusions about Gray's suitability as a custodial parent.
Instead, we should wait for the custody dispute play itself out in court. And until it does, the right response for outsiders (meaning all of us) should be "No comment."
November 7th, 2009 at 12:39 am
The court must think a .666 batting average is good enough to get a base ball player into the hall of fame so it must be good enough to still parent. MY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!! If this woman would've used booze and a car to kill on the street, they would have locked her away. So why is she even free, negligent homicide of this nature should be enforced to the maximum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sorry for his lose and I would under stand if he were to take his children to another state, in their best interest. Can we get a number for the court house or judge? I want to put those flesh eating bacteria under a very power lens, Let's let them know how unacceptable this is!!!
November 7th, 2009 at 9:08 am
I sat in Newmarket Court in 2004 or 2005 waiting for the Judge to address my matter with the Town of Newmarket and ahead of me was a woman who was being read her sentence for repeatedly burning her child with a red hot spoon she heated on the stove and otherwise tortured her child. She would burn the inside of her daughters legs as a form of punishment and discipline. I still recall the chilling chronology of her cruelty to her child that was read out by the Judge. it was horrible to hear!
I sat about five feet from this woman/mother and didn't realize she was the one that committed the crimes of cruelty against her own child until she stood up. No hand cuffs, she just sat in and amongst the rest of the people. She did not appear to be capable to hurt anyone. Small stature, and meek behaviour/body language.
Her sentence? House arrest! The Crown also recommended for her to get counselling and to be reintegrated into her family???
I was shocked and astounded as I thought she was off to jail for years! Not so. My question is would a man/father be given a similar sentence? I think not!
It is clear that women are treated with kid gloves and men are punished harshly even when they are innocent
Attila
November 7th, 2009 at 9:44 am
thats horrible Attila! Is this the kind of justice one wants?
November 7th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Pankaj. I can't even consider THAT justice by any measure of reason. The kind of justice I want would include our penal system to act as a last measure of deterrence upon those in our society who failed the mark otherwise.
The message that case sent to other mothers/women is that you can torture your child and get a mild reprimand. No need to worry about your actions, not even in the eyes of the law! While men are considered slaughter material worthy of nothing except their money and physical attributes in war, construction etc.
That is what this peculates down to, and it is utterly wrong!
Attila
November 7th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Guys! Guys, guys, guys. What is the next step, beyond trading notes here in this blog? We need to get real. Who knows what particular actions can be taken about this sort of thing? And why are we still so unorganized? Wrong question. How can we become organized?
November 7th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
We do need to get organized! And the sooner the better, but we have to be careful because the feminist have Billions of dollars tax payer money and they use this to their advantage. That being said, it is also true that most men and I mean MOST, don't even know this kind of thing happens until they are in it up to there eye balls and by that time it's to late. There are some men who won't believe it. Once they have been run through the family court meat grinder they have nothing left to fight with.
Sad Dad
November 7th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
You are all correct. Why is there no organization about this issue ? The divorce rate is almost 55% in America, but the most basic fundemental right to be a parent is barely on the radar. I for one am not for big government, but yet they tell me when I get to see my child, how long I get to see my child, and how much money I get to pay for my child. I am not treated equally. I had to waith TWO YEARS before I could keep my child overnight even though I was 37, had an honorable discharge from the military, and still work in law enforcement for our federal government. I am trying to get in to see my Federal representivie. I want to ask him WHY MY MONEY IS MORE IMPORTANT TO MY CHILD THAN I AM ? The feds spend BILLIONS on making sure a parents money can get collected, but when they do not get to see that same child, I always get told "SORRY, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HIRE AN ATTORNEY" The most practical, and fair way to fix many problems is shared parenting. The demise of the family unit has become business for the 50 states. They do not want to fix the problem.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Davy, one good way to to put a lid on a lot of this is a male birth control pill. (you may need to take a moment to think about the concept.) Spread the word to as many people as possible about the hidden stories from this blog.
Always remenber the power women enjoy is fake it is taken. Femminism does nothing for anybody. Femminism doesn't even support itself. Femminism cannot exist with responsibility. All of our efforts as MRA's need to focus on women being held to the same standards as men. Scott's story above needs to be "Sharon's" story. Attila's story needs to read she was sentence to 10 years for child abuse.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:46 am
I guess anger issues. SHe killed one of his children? a large % of people would go over and perform homicide for that especially if his otehr children are at risk.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Scott writes, "You are all correct. Why is there no organization about this issue ?"
Just a little reminder: there IS an organization about this. It's called Fathers & Families. Join, support, recruit, and start a chapter in your state. We have about 50,000 people nationwide -- let's make it 100,000.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:59 am
Ladies and gentlemen!! This "mother" is from hell! The Father should be granted sole custody. Our justice system is a joke. If they really cared about the well being of children they would never allowed this to have happened. And as far a feminism, It roots were in the rightplace. However as most things it became corrupted. It was meant to grant women EQUAL rights. So women could vote,own property,have jobs, equal pay, and be taken just as seriously as any man. Now feminism has turned into a monster. It wants to make women better than men. They are going against everything they originally stood for and they need to wake up.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:00 am
I have witnessed first hand when a father calls CPS to report a fact based concern(s) for his children...CPS takes their time OR does nothing at all. I have also heard directly by a CPS intake woman say nothing to me when I said IF A FATHER touched his daughter in this manner would you DO NOTHING?
I am female, and a bio-mother AND a step mother for the record. Also I am a supporter and I have walked the walk to support FATHERS Rights. That said.
This story is discusting and I am ashamed that our Family Court is allowing this mother to attempt to regain custody of her children,those left not killed by her own hand.
This process is not new to me. And I am NOT shocked. I have seen drug user Mothers who have been in jail keeping wonderful fathers in the court system because they have stashed money to pay their lawyers doing everything they can to take "back" what they claim in only theirs.
There is NO way if a Father was in jail and lost custody due to felony charges that a Judge would give him a second look, much less continue court appearences for years and years. This is the truth because I have seen it,,and still see it.
AND the Family Court allows this to continue...motion after motiion,,after motion. Thousands upon Thousands of dollars owed to lawyers (which as you know) no one has 20, 30 grand in a coffee can, who is trying to earn an honest living these days.
I dont know whether or not this Father is cleared and ready to raise his children. But I can say without a doubt that egg donor is NOT. The very thought of her getting the children back is INSANE.
November 24th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
I am John Gray the father, what happened was 3 weeks before we went to trial against the state of AZ which we won...the Atty Gen office made a deal with my ex wife to testify against me...the AG rep wife just happens to be a familly court judge...they temp took my boys so I couldnt say i was a good father in trial...THIS IS THE TRUTH...my boys get straight A's i coach their sports teams and they are very welol behaved...this is criminal, i hired my own PHD who gave me a clean bill of health and they would not except it, i had to use theirs, that perso took n7 mos to do a Psych report and gave me a FIT parent tag...the courts still wont give me my kids...Its retalitory and criminal...A film maker named Bill Bowen is making a 2 hr film about corruption in the familly courts and is using my story as an example...I have done nothing except lead my boys to greatness
December 12th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Your article fails to identify exactly what he was in jail for. "Anger issues" apparently preexisted the divorce, perhaps? I am not advocating for the mother to retain custody, as she is directly responsible for the death of a child left in her care. It seems most likely that the children are voicing a preference to remain where they are and that their mother has gotten treatment for her issues with drugs and alcohol. I have a child whose father was a substance abuser, he has gotten treatment and now has become the loving, responsible parent, that he could not be while actively drinking, even when he tried not to drink during visits, his behavior today is completely different, because his judgments are no longer influenced by drugs/alcohol and he is active in programs that have helped him to stay on the wagon and get a new and improved set of priorities. Life is a lot better, as a result.
I don't know if I could have ever forgiven it though, if any child had died as a direct result of his substance abuse. AND, I can see why he would want a different custody arrangement, just not sure that the children wouldn't be better off still being with grandparents, or an aunt or uncle, who have no similar substance abuse issues or "anger problems" Anger problems and parenting can be a lethal combination, too and there are no shortage of headlines to prove it.