Good Point...
November 10th, 2009 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & Families"State of the Union" by Carl Moore
33 Responses to “Good Point...”
Note: The views expressed by readers in the reader comments do NOT necessarily reflect those of Glenn Sacks. The fact that the comment is posted on this blog does NOT signify that Glenn Sacks agrees with it. Posters' views are those of the posters alone--Glenn's views can ONLY be found in the blog post itself, not the comments.
While blog commenters are given great freedom on this blog, there are some rules of moderation. To read those, click here.
Leave a Comment
Note: The views expressed by some readers in the reader comments do not necessarily reflect those of Glenn Sacks. Their views are theirs alone--if you want mine, look at the blog post, not the blog comments. While blog commenters are given great freedom on this blog, there are some rules of moderation. To read those, click here.
"));
19 queries. 0.411 seconds.
November 10th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
You forgot the third stanza, showing the three women cursing "Men are such #@$% animals!!!"
November 10th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
"Fathers" are a danger and a threat to the "family" which consists of a "mother and HER child."
A "father" is a potential molester, rapist, physical and verbal abuser, not to mention an idiot and a dead beat. So yes, fathers who needs em is what popular culture believes.
Fathers have been so berated that my list is the first words that pop into any ones mind when you say fathers. So sad...
November 10th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
*Applause*
Now we need a special addition where they also mention daughters.
Then have pregnant teenagers fleeing the bullets, waddling the whole way.
November 10th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
...yes, it could have said "All our daughters need is a loving mother" in the first frame and then had the three women saddled with raising multiple grandchildren 18 years later in the second frame.
November 10th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Actually the picture is misleading.. they should have railroad ties instead of bullets.
November 10th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Ah the power of comics. A sequential juxtaposition of 2 images, that makes a powerful point without needing to verbally explain it. Good post.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Excellent comic!!!
It looks like some people are finally getting the point. The following quote comes from Leah Ward Sears, a retired chief justice of the Georgia Supreme Court:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/OPINION/11/09/sears.obama.marriage/index.html
"We need to respect the role of men as husbands and fathers when they do right by their families. Boys and girls need their fathers to love them and to model the sacrifice and commitment that bonds a married couple. Men who 'man up' like this need our support and encouragement."
November 10th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
@Dave
Too little, too late...
November 10th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
I saved that and will be E-mailing it to a few friends.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
yes, it could have said "All our daughters need is a loving mother" in the first frame and then had the three women saddled with raising multiple grandchildren 18 years later in the second frame.
More like 13 years.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
I would have to agree with (NE) it is to late we still did not reach the bottom of the barrel the marriages will decline because men have a high price to pay if they make a bad choice and there is a growing culture among young women who do not plan on waiting for the right guy to come along to have kids and no sensible information will deter this trend as for divorces more men are out of work and this will put more pressure on relationship and for single mothers as long as the government gives them benefits to replace the father nothing will stop the trend. We are pass the point where we can reverse this it should have been dealt when it first started 30 years ago with the "no fault divorce" now we have to live with it. We can't always repair the damage that is done.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
It's a sad world. Poor kids. Bring back the old ways.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:24 am
I'm hurt to hear all the comments along the lines of "too little, too late". Every righteous cause could have easily said this exact same sentiment. It is not "too little, too late", it's a start. It's a pithy summary of the truth, like all good political cartoons. I know it's true, you know it's true, we all know it's true. Could it have been better, artistically and semantically? Who cares?! The "better iteration" will come later. For now, it's more than we had yesterday and it's the start of a better tomorrow, and isn't that enough for where we're at?
November 11th, 2009 at 6:37 am
I partially agree with those who say that it's too little, too late. While I hope that it's not too late, it's definitely going to take a lot more than catchy slogans and pretty speeches to turn around this mess. Marriage has become a joke in this country and the younger generation is savy enough to see it. Unfortunately, many of the people in Ms. Sears' profession have played a major role in creating this mess.
If we truly want to encourage young people to get married, then we are going to have to show young men that a father is much more than a wallet. We are going to have to show young men that we respect and value their time and their involvement woith their children. We are going to have provide concrete proof that we believe that a father is just as important to children as a mother is. In short, we are going to have to have the courage and the backbone to stand up and demand that our legislatures and our courts make marriage actually mean something again. How many of our current politicians have the backbone for this?
November 11th, 2009 at 7:17 am
I agree Charles. "Too little, too late" sounds far too much like a cop-out to me. It's basically like saying "woe is me"...it's not worth fighting the good fight because it's already lost.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:58 am
i don't think it's too late but i do wonder where all the warriors are going to come from. too much time on game boy. there are collages that are approaching 65% women enrollments. couple that with 75% faculty and it is hard to see much light at the end of the tunnel for a hell of a long time. watch the news lately? presented by mostly women. mostly about women. just about mostly all the time. my grandson was forced to stop playing dodge ball in pre school. a little girl got plunked in the head. no more of that. now all (boys and girls alike) do ballet instead of dodge ball. wonderful.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:40 am
I have also noticed that when a woman earns 50,000 more than a man earns 24,000 and they have a child the woman feels like she is taking care of two kids and dumps the husband.
So there is no respect for men on any level by the women... So "father" who needs 'em?
November 11th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Why give up ? Shared parenting would solve MANY problems. 70% of the time women file for divorce and 85% of the time get the title of "custodial parent". Even with "no fault" divorce the divorce rate would drop because there would be no more golden parachute for getting a divorce. Women KNOW the system. My EX flat out told me that "they will not do anything to me" and still continues to make trouble because up to this point, they have not. When a woman gets the vast majority of the time with the child, gets the tax write off every year, gets child support and the man has to provide the health insurance there is no reason to stay. Then if they pack up and want to move away, our system does not care as long as you keep paying that child support.
Lets' be honest. The demise of the family unit has become BUSINESS for the 50 states. They get FEDERAL money based on child support and will not easily give it up. There needs to be a campaign not only on the state level but also the federal level for SHARED PARENTING. Every non custodial parent and childrens advocacy groups needs to contact their Federal elected officials too and aske them "WHY IS MY MONEY VALUED AS MORE IMPORTANT TO MY CHILD THAN I AM ?" There is a state run agency mandated by federal law to track and make sure the money is paid, and the states get FEDERAL MONEY to make sure it gets done. If you do not pay your child support the ATTORNEY GENERAL will make sure with the federal assistance that it gets collected. The Attorney Generals office also do audits and can petition that the child support get raised without the EX even asking for it. READ THE TITLE IV-D LAWS in the states family codes and also the FEDERAL LAW. When you get denied seeing your child....what are you told ???? There is no FEDERAL MONEY to make sure you get to see your child and the response is "SORRY, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HIRE AN ATTORNEY. HENCE, YOUR MONEY IS VALUED AS MORE IMPORTANT TO YOUR CHILD THAN YOU ARE. We then wonder why AMERICA IS IN THE SHAPE IT IS IN ? We are our own worst enemy. It is pathetic.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:42 am
It is not too late, it is only too late for people who feel they have no power to make change
Get on the wagon we our building momentum
November 11th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Pretty please with sugar on top. Now clean the effing car!
There's a great line in the film Pulp Fiction where The Wolf basically tells Vincent to stop whining and get to work but still, in his own way, shows him respect. That is not what is happening below:
Dave quotes former justice Leah Ward Sears "Men who 'man up' like this need our support and encouragement."
When I grew up, I never heard "man up". Ever. At worst, I heard "be a man!" and this was used either towards crying boys or a taunt ("Don't be a chicken!") Also growing up, the notion of "be a man" was coming under attack as insecure machismo. The phrase "man up" sounds especially derogatory and sexist to boot so her claim to be respecting men sounds insincere.
And it is. While she offers "support and encouragement" (and a quarter to buy a cup of cheap coffee) to the men ONLY if they play nice, the women get everything unconditionally:
"I would never condemn anyone who has had a child out of wedlock or who has gone through a divorce."
ANYONE! So much for her previous paragraph claiming to want to revisit no fault divorce laws and stop glorifying single motherhood.
Dave, Leah Ward Sears isn't getting the point. Just the opposite: She's engaging in the same old man bashing but putting sugar on top. The support and encouragement she's giving us is to tell us to man up. Thanks bunches. When women act like ladies, Leah Ward Sears, men will treat you like one.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:08 am
I thought it was a very positive article by her.
The only thing that strikes me as odd about it though is that it doesn't tackle WHY men are starting to opt out of marriage (or people in general).
November 11th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
ju1ce says...The only thing that strikes me as odd about it though is that it doesn't tackle WHY men are starting to opt out of marriage (or people in general).
I am quite sure they KNOW WHY but I don't think they can SAY WHY people are opting out of marriage. The TRUTH would hurt too much.
1. No fault divorce
2. A standard visitation order (real world facts not considered)
3. A set GUIDELINE for child support (real world facts not considered)
4. Federal law mandating the creation of a state run agency to make sure the money is
tracked. (federal involvement in a states issue)
5. Federal FUNDING to make sure child support gets collected
6. NO FUNDING to make sure a child gets to HAVE A RELATIONSHIP with both parents.
7. It is NOT 1975 anymore and women are making as much money as men
8. 85% of the time WOMEN are made the managing conservator
9. No reproductive rights for men (but can be made to pay)
10. The legal language "THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD" is hypocrisy. Legal language to justify anything they want to.
11. A jury of 12 could sentence a person to death, but that same jury could not decide who the custodial parent should be.
I have always said that anyone who actually reads FAMILY LAW (and understands how it is ACTUALLY APPLIED) can really only come to one conclusion. It is like a business that looks at the tax code. If it is NOT CONDUSIVE TO DOING BUSINESS, then you just don't do it.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Manning up
Scott says: "7. It is NOT 1975 anymore and women are making as much money as men"
PK clarifies: That's not entirely true, Scott, or at least not the entire story.
Women still "earn" less than men because women work less hours due to those who are married and take time off or collect child-support and welfare in leau of working. The 75 cents on a dollar statistic only looks at EARNED wages without consideration of the hours worked or other benefits women enjoyed at the expense of men.
Even in 1975, there were plenty of women earning a decent living who could have payed their way but they played upon the uncertainty that there might be some boogyman sexist somewhere keeping her from perfect equality. But really, was that EVER an excuse for men? Didn't men also have to deal with unfairness in our lives? When were we ever allowed to use the excuse that life isn't totally fair to weasle out of our traditional breadwinner role?
The fact is that they've milked the damsel in distress routine beyond the breaking point of western chivalrous men. But that doesn't mean that we should have bought it in the first place. As Buddha would put it: All is as it should be.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
"I am quite sure they KNOW WHY but I don't think they can SAY WHY people are opting out of marriage. The TRUTH would hurt too much."
The term ignorance is bliss comes to mind, but then there are others like myself who are willing to take that chance knowing full well the consequences of the decision.
I could lose everything but at the end of the race if I make it.. I have everything to gain.
I'm happily married, with 1 child and one on the way. So I am very at risk of losing everything and being miserable in the process. I know this full well but it's me not being ignorant to that fact that I figure gives me the ability to make sure "we" stay happy as a couple.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Yet another thing men provide the world: romance
Indeed, ju1ce, men all along have been pioneers in taking risks to have families. Valentines day is based upon a story of St. Valentine going to prison to defend romance.
In the modern era in the states, it's still common for career women to gripe that they haven't "found" a man they "want" to marry which really means that the perfect man, in their view, didn't ride up in a horse. One of the most popular questions people like to ask couples is "how did you meet?" and the fact is that usually it's because a man took risks to make that meeting possible and to nurse the relationship along in it's infancy. Women may bear children, but men conceive conception.
ju1ce, the danger is that since the times of Kramer vs Kramer, it's been understood that it's the man's responsibility to keep the woman happy. There are even women who say: "Happy wife, happy life" defining the relationship as existing to primarily keep her happy. The first thing men need to do to liberate themselves is to establish our rights within the relationship from the beginning.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Not directed at you obviously.. "Happy wife, happy life"
I can not stand this anology as I believe it's one that continues today because men still put women on pedestals. If a woman is miserable let her go in the corner and pout. This is not YOUR issue this is HER issue.
Your g/f, wife whatever isn't happy and pouty.. Ignore it, go out for a drive, take a walk, do something for the day and you will see the attitude change when you no longer give into the game of. "If I'm not happy you're not happy" attitude. It's a game. A successful one at that because most men are wimps when it gets played. What about your happiness as a man?
@#$@ I can't stand that statement. Sorry, for some reason I have no idea why. That statement alone starts to get my blood boil. I am not born in life to make my wife happy. I'm there to enjoy happy moments in life with her, and yes sometimes spoil her but in no way should I have to walk on egg shells to enjoy my life because she's not enjoying hers.
By the way I agree with your last line. That is what I did from the beginning. I layed the lines in the sand and kept them.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
ju1ce...I am truly happy for you and your family. I wish you and your family a long happy life TOGETHER. I have one child and live ten minutes away from him. The Ex makes more money than I do and gets all the benefits of being the custodial parent while I get to see my son every other weekend. If I got remarried to a woman with children, I would get to see those children more than I get to see my own who lives ten minutes away. If I were to get married again and had another child, I would have to deal with the problem twice. NO THANK YOU. Our legal system has taught me well.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Idioms & Phrases
too little, too late
Inadequate as a remedy and not in time to be effective, as in The effort to divert the stream into a corn field was too little too late the houses were already flooded.
This term originated in the military, where it was applied to reinforcements that were insufficient and arrived too late to be of help. [First half of 1900s]
November 11th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
As soon as men have a birth control pill we can start to be in charge of this. It will really defund the system. I wonder how long it will be before the MRA's start talking about how to change things.Glenn's approach is to change the pop culture and the attitudes of the professionals that decide how our lives will go. It's a slow process that I understand.
Good luck ju1ce if you have been on this blog and still got married with children you have never had real woman problems that go beyond something you did. (That sorta thing brings more guys to Glenn's blog) Or you you love and desire to be a father. Have fun and enjoy the day to day stress.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Scott, where I'm coing from is that yes, it's unfair that men live in a horrid time when we have to be lucky to not have our children and families used against us. But at the same time, life has always been unfair for most men. That's just the way the world has been. Even if we left the states and went to a more traditional country, we'd just be trading one form of unfairness for another.
And that's what has helped us men to change society for the better: Decreasing the unfairness and improving living standards rather than waiting for someone else to do it for us and taking the risks. Feminism "achieved" equality by asking men to give it to them. That is simply not an option for us.
November 12th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
"Every non custodial parent and childrens advocacy groups needs to contact their Federal elected officials too and aske them "WHY IS MY MONEY VALUED AS MORE IMPORTANT TO MY CHILD THAN I AM ?" There is a state run agency mandated by federal law to track and make sure the money is paid, and the states get FEDERAL MONEY to make sure it gets done."
And see, this right here is another spot where an effective campaign could cause SERIOUS damage to those who wish to deny fathers their rights.
We could demand the various state governments explain why they have to profit from the suffering of their citizens.
Take the profit motive out of child support, from the State government, and you'll see some more reasonable behaviour.
Maybe ask "Why does the State profit from the breakdown of marriage? Is this healthy?"
Point to the profit center that is Family Court....throw in a smattering of related issues....done.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Factory,
Usually you are a more rational guy than to suggest
"We could demand the various state governments explain why they have to profit from the suffering of their citizens"
I think their answer (if they bother answering you in words) would be
"Dude! That is how we operate. We do the same thing everywhere else as well.. Under which rock have you been living till now?"
November 13th, 2009 at 12:24 am
His response would be "Until now I beleive the lie that only bad people suffered"