Marilyn Manson on his Ex-Wife: 'I was no longer supposed to be a rock star...I was someone who had to be apologized for'
May 22nd, 2007 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & Families
"She said she had tolerated the lifestyle because she hoped I would change and threatened to leave if I didn't. I was sleeping on the couch in my own home. I was no longer supposed to be a rock star. I was someone who had to be apologized for."--rock singer Marilyn Manson
I know very little about rock singer Marilyn Manson, but the above quote typifies something I've seen many times. A woman marries a man and is determined to change him. When he doesn't change, she's mad. (And if he does change, she might not find him attractive anymore, but that's a different story).
This exemplifies several qualities not uncommon in women which, when they arise in men, are usually called "abusive." These include: the belief that you and only you know what's best for your spouse; the belief that it's your spouse and only your spouse who must change; and the belief that the glaring spotlight should only be shined on your spouse's faults and never on yours. I discussed this issue in my co-authored column Men Blamed for Marriage Decline but Women's Relationship Wounds Often Self-Inflicted (Chicago Tribune, 1/21/07).
I might also add the following--Manson beat out odds of a million to one to get where he is. His ex-wife, Dita Von Teese (pictured) is a model/burlesque dancer. Why is he supposed to be ashamed?
Manson says the divorce left him emotionally devastated but he doesn't know how lucky he really is--at least they didn't have kids.
To be fair, it is quite possible--if not likely--that Von Teese has very legitimate grievances against Manson, too. My point is not that Manson is a saint and that Von Teese is a witch. My point is that the overcritical nature Manson accuses Von Teese of having is a common problem for married men, and often leads to divorces.
Manson is now apparently involved with a young woman, and that often is interpreted very differently by men and women. The woman interprets it as "he's dumping me for someone younger." The man interprets it as "I've found someone who likes me as I am and isn't so critical." Both views have legitimacy.
The Associated Press article is below.
S. Fla.'s Marilyn Manson says failed marriage `destroyed' him
May 18, 2007
NEW YORK -- Marilyn Manson says he was devastated over the breakup of his marriage to model and burlesque dancer Dita Von Teese.
"I was completely destroyed. I had no soul left," the 38-year-old glitzy goth rocker says in Spin magazine's June issue, on newsstands May 29. "I define myself as a person, a human, an artist, as someone who makes things -- writing, painting, music -- and I couldn't do anything."
Manson, whose real name is Brian Hugh Warner, grew up in South Florida and once attended Broward Community College, married Von Teese in November 2005. She filed for divorce last December.
"She said she had tolerated the lifestyle because she hoped I would change and threatened to leave if I didn't," Manson says.
"I was sleeping on the couch in my own home. I was no longer supposed to be a rock star. I was someone who had to be apologized for. I wasn't prepared to be alone. I came out of this naked, a featherless bird."
Read the full article here.
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May 22nd, 2007 at 4:48 pm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/scitech/SciTechRepublish_898675.htm
"Creative genius and crime express themselves early in men but both are turned off almost like a tap if a man gets married and has children, a study says. "
I sometimes wonder if the drama that Manson describes has anything to do with this effect.
A demanding wife tends to get in the way of 36-hour-creative-binges in the lab/studio/office.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:35 pm
I do not intend to become polemical or religiously divisive but what Foo cited is the very reason for celibacy in the Catholic priesthood. This phenomenon also occurs in nearly every serious research field; especially science and philosophy. I would encourage all of you to read the following book to really see what undivided, unfettered and celibate minds can accomplish. Finally, although celibacy and abstinence are not well considered in this country, let alone among men, it is the path of the stoics and the greatest (male) minds of the past and I would opine that since women no longer seem to be the women they once were, I hope celibacy and research become the future of men. After all, having spent your life laboring to arrive at a certain state of life and also bringing children into the world, what choice is harder, having everything denied to you, bereft of your children and your soul or just to forgo women and conjugal relations? I think I know which one is easier.
http://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Church-Built-Western-Civilization/dp/0895260387/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-3543334-8330242?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179869568&sr=1-1
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:55 pm
If he had changed, she might have filed for divorce because they "grew apart" and because "he changed."
May 23rd, 2007 at 3:43 am
" A woman marries a man hoping he will change: A man marries a woman hoping she will not change. Both are disappointed. "
That lifestyle put a lot of money into Manson's pockets. She knew, she knew full well that he earned his money being shocking: He earned the money they lived on via that lifestyle. Why is HE wrong for not changing?
May 23rd, 2007 at 5:46 am
I don't know about all of you, but I've learned to see the deep ugliness in "attractive women" who are attracted to men with resources.
When I look at a woman who is clearly mindful of her appearance and dressing herself to the nines to attract male attention, what I see is a Canadian fur-trapper, carefully baiting a deadly trap in order to capture a valuable pelt for herself.
What do the rest of you see?
"Beauty?"
Are you nuts?
May 25th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
One thing most females just don’t get is that the man they married is the man they will have to live with. When you hear a woman say “I love him, but” it’s a major red flag. Any time I have heard someone say “I love him, but I wish he would…………”, the first thing I ask is was he like this before you married him? If she says yes, then I ask why she married him if she didn’t like that habit, or whatever. If she says no, then it is just that people do change over time, which is the way it is for everyone, and if you are mature about it you can work out those differences. By the laws of nature we all change over time, but to force a change that is not natural is wrong.
What the soon-to-be ex of Marilyn Manson and other wives of “stars” find out is they can’t change these men. And they shouldn’t! They knew full well before even getting involved what their lifestyle was like and what they do for a living. Either accept it or go the other way. I don’t know what Marilyn Manson is like “off stage”, but I have seen a couple of his videos and frankly I find them down-right repulsive, therefore I wouldn’t even consider getting involved with him (as if I would have a chance anyway). To expect anything else from him would be unrealistic and unfair to him. The same goes for anyone in any walk of life, to expect another person to change their entire way of life, or even just part of it, just for your benefit is unfair.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Derision, abasement, and condescension... My ex-wife was this way and at the time of the crisis (which left me home-less, job-less, penny-less, and worst of all, child-less) I was reading up on pi-polar disorder when I stumbled across a book entitled, "Stop Walking on Eggshells". That book is for spouses of person with another ailment with the initials of BPD: Borderline Personality Disorder. Referring to the last line of the quote from this article I have left below, persons with BPD do not seek help, do not admit to themselves that they need help, and (therefore) all trouble in a relation is the fault of the other-- those of us who learned to walk on eggshells.
Further, in that book, the gender double-standard was addressed with a comment to the effect that men with BPD are in prison, women with BPD, and only if required by a court, are in therapy. Verbal abuse from a woman to a man is, in our culture and in our justice system, "nagging."
Worse, for me now that I am no longer the lightning-rod to draw the violence away from my children and upon me, is that the police and CPS informed me that arbitrary and unpredictable but severe "punishment " of children is "child abuse" for males and is merely an un-legislatable "discipline choice" for a female (okay, to be fair, CPS did warn my ex-wife sternly enough about her regular employment of a belt strap that my children have reported to me that she has never done it since).
At any rate, it may be an unfair stereotype to characterize wives as "nagging" as I thought may be implied in this article-- I don't know as I was only married once and that for sixteen years. I suspect a mental or an emotional disorder was at the core of the physical and emotional abuse I experienced, especially in light that her behavior extended to the children. Such may be the case for Dita Von Teese.
The article read:
"This exemplifies several qualities not uncommon in women which, when they arise in men, are usually called 'abusive.' These include: the belief that you and only you know what's best for your spouse; the belief that it's your spouse and only your spouse who must change; and the belief that the glaring spotlight should only be shined on your spouse's faults and never on yours."