Texas Mother Murders Her 3 Children--and It's Ex-Boyfriend's Fault?!
May 30th, 2007 by Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & FamiliesGilberta Estrada hung her four small daughters, three of whom died--and it's her ex-boyfriend's fault?! For example, Christian author Jocelyn Andersen just issued the press release "Victim of Domestic Violence Hangs Self and Four Daughters" through Christian Newswire in which they claim:
"Domestic Violence is a destroyer. It is believed that Gilberta Estrada hanged herself-after hanging her four young daughters first. A police investigation hopes to confirm the tragic facts of this case. An already confirmed fact is that Estrada was a victim of domestic violence. The Associated Press reports that she had previously obtained a restraining order against the father of one or more of her children. Can we rule out the possibility that domestic violence, or the threat of continued domestic violence, was a contributing factor to the depression Estrada was reported to be experiencing and the decision to end her life and the lives of her children?"
Even if Estrada were a victim of domestic violence, it wouldn't come within a mile of excusing or explaining her horrendous crime. But it is in no way an "already confirmed fact that Estrada was a victim of domestic violence." Estrada got a temporary restraining order against her ex-boyfriend Gregorio Frayre Rodriguez. While to outsiders this may sound impressive, it is, in fact, absolutely meaningless.
According to Elaine Epstein, former president of the Massachusetts Women’s Bar Association, restraining orders are doled out "like candy" to “virtually all who apply," and that "in virtually all cases, no notice, meaningful hearing, or impartial weighing of evidence is to be had."
Restraining orders are generally done ex parte, without the accused's knowledge and with no opportunity afforded for him to defend himself. When an order is issued, the man is booted out of his own home and can even be jailed if he tries to contact his own children. Despite these grave effects, many courts grant restraining orders to practically any woman who applies. Research shows that these orders often do not even involve an allegation of violence. Usually all that’s needed is a claim that the person to be restrained “acted in a way that scared me” or was “verbally abusive”—what’s known as “shout at your spouse, lose your house.”
A restrained person does have the opportunity to contest the orders at a hearing a couple of weeks later. However, these proceedings are often just a formality for which no more than 15 minutes are generally allotted. In fact, the State of California’s website gives the following advice for men who are contesting restraining orders:
"Practice saying why you disagree with the charges. Do not take more than three minutes to say what you disagree with. You can bring witnesses or documents that support your case, but the judge may not have enough time to talk to the witnesses.”
One study of restraining orders published in the Journal of Family Violence found that 94% of those brought by women in one Massachusetts district were extended.
Many if not most domestic violence restraining orders are simply tactical maneuvers designed to gain advantage in high stakes family law proceedings. The Illinois Bar Journal calls the orders "part of the gamesmanship of divorce.”
A recent article in the Family Law News, the official publication of the State Bar of California Family Law Section, explains that the Bar is concerned that "protective orders are increasingly being used in family law cases to help one side jockey for an advantage in child custody.” The authors note that protective orders are “almost routinely issued by the court in family law proceedings even when there is relatively meager evidence and usually without notice to the restrained person....it is troubling that they appear to be sought more and more frequently for retaliation and litigation purposes.”
The restraining order against Rodriguez was only temporary, and was probably issued ex parte. Yes, it's certainly possible that Estrada may have been a victim of domestic violence, and I'm sure her family, friends and defenders will try to portray her as such. However, as of right now, we have no credible evidence that she was a victim of domestic violence. And even if they did have a violent relationship, it may have been Estrada who was solely or largely responsible for that violence. After all, while we have no proof of any wrongdoing by Rodriguez, we do have absolute proof that Estrada was violent and mentally disturbed.
The Associated Press story is Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive.
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May 30th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Moreover, the report that I saw said the restraining order dates from last August and the couple have not been living together since February. Check out the end of the AP article, if the mother had survived, she'd get off on an insanity plea anyway.
May 30th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
This is disgusting, the media is forgiving a woman who HUNG THREE CHILDREN.
She killed them, in cold blood, one after the other, before hanging herself.
And we're supposed to feel sorry for her?
Her ex-boyfriend may of abused her, she may of abused him. Either of them may have abused the kids. Yet regardless of circumstances, nothing can justify what she did.
Three innocent girls, hung from the neck at their mother's whim, powerless to defend themselves, watching their sisters go before them.
How can anyone have any sympathy for this woman?
May 30th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
I have no idea how they can justify this. If it were a man he'd be called a mass murderer that should be executed today.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Very sad.
"...Fowler said there was no evidence that Frayre abused the girls."
The reason that a reporter asks Fowler this question is to shift the idea of violence and abuse from women to men.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
[...] (In addition, Dee Etta Perez, 39, shot her three children, ages 4, 9 and 10, before killing herself, and Gilberta Estrada murdered three of her daughters this week. To learn more, see my blog post Texas Mother Murders Her 3 Children--and It's Ex-Boyfriend's Fault?!). [...]
May 30th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
This was probably in the original AP report:
"Can we rule out the possibility that domestic violence, or the threat of continued domestic violence, was a contributing factor to the depression Estrada was reported to be experiencing and the decision to end her life and the lives of her children?"
This is clear. It asks the reader to weigh evidence, which can be rejected. It's no longer in the article. Why?
It must have been replaced by:
"...Fowler said there was no evidence that Frayre abused the girls."
This statement is buried at the end of a sentence. Fowler is the subject and the writer appears objective. Why did Fowler make this statement? He must have been asked by a reporter. Why?
Did the reporter/writer/editor shift the association of violence from women to men? If so, why?
May 30th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Taking out a restraining order on false allegations is an extremely common act of "abuse" committed by females against males in the U.S., and this abuse is committed with the complicity of the courts.
A mother murdering her children is also an act of "abuse" committed by a female.
Seems to me this woman was abusing everyone in her life?
Maybe courts will wake up and start to see restraining order applicants as possibly the real abuser -- and one who just might commit the ultimate abuse against children -- of murdering them.
But then, when this happens it's the result of "insanity", or "mental illness", both of which presumably can be induced by the children's father? Right.
So will this country's judges ever hold women responsible for their actions, and accountable to the law? And if our courts won't hold women accountable to the law, how is it that the courts are so willing to allow women to file lawsuits against men?
How indeed.
May 30th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
My heart goes out to the family, but there is no sympathy here for Gilberta, not one iota. If she wanted to kill herself, fine, she is the one who has to answer to God for her actions. But to take the lives of innocent children! That is the ultimate "if I can't have them then you can have them." Horrible. As for the others (Yates, etc.) wish I could have been on those juries. I was livid when the conviction against Yates was overturned. Another case of female pity. The system is way too easy on women, most of these judges still see women as little girls that have to be taken care of and protected. Little girls need to be taught to take responsibility just like the boys, and when they are not this is what happens, their actions are excused away. Now the youngest child in this incident will have to live with this the rest of her life. It is all over the news, there will be no protecting her from the truth.
May 31st, 2007 at 3:39 am
NO MALE, no male at all, could use the fact that he had a restraining order against a wife/girlfriend as a 'defence.' No person anywhere in the press would accept such idiocy. We need to make a huge change in our attitude. A female killer is a killer: Period! She's not a victim.
We've got a serious bigotry problem in our press/media and it is a threat to children.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:01 am
"Well, I lost my appetite. For about a year."
That's a quote from one of my favorite movies. (Bonus points if anyone can name it.) It sums up how I feel after reading this news.
It's a damned shame that we can't hold people responsible for their own actions in this country. Whether Gilberta Estrada was abused or not, it was still her decision to murder her children and attempt to kill herself. She could have gone to a battered women's shelter, called a crisis line, spoken to a priest, to her family. Instead, she chose to create five nooses and slip them around the necks of her daughters and herself. She chose to end their lives instead of dealing with her problems. Any abuse perpetrated by her ex is immaterial. She made her choice. She should be held responsible for it.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:27 am
[...] Background: Gilberta Estrada recently hung her four small daughters, three of whom died, and many are blaming her ex-boyfriend Gregorio Frayre Rodriguez, against whom she had a temporary restraining order. What many fail to realize is that domestic violence restraining orders are passed out by courts almost automatically, and they in no way represent a judicial finding of violence or wrongdoing. Estrada may or may not have been a victim of domestic violence. To learn more, see my blog entry Texas Mother Murders Her 3 Children--and It's Ex-Boyfriend's Fault?! [...]
May 31st, 2007 at 10:46 am
Restraining orders are given to anyone who feels they need them. Men can obtain them as well as women. They only mean the person must stay away from the person seeking the RO. The state cannot deny anyone. If they did and that person were killed or harmed the state could be liable for not issueing a RO when one was requested.
May 31st, 2007 at 11:22 am
As a side note on the Andrea Yates trial. She was given a new trial because there was false testimony given in the first trial that tried to show that she had seen what she had done to her children on TV. Without that piece of testimony there was really no longer a motive. If people are going to be mad at anybody about the overturned conviction it should be the prosecuters who did not do their job. Either way she still didn't get the death penalty.
May 31st, 2007 at 11:43 am
THE FAULT IS NOT ONLY ABUSE BY BOYFRIEND/HUSBAND ITS THE PROVERTY. WHEN UR POOR,DEPRESSED,NEEDING A FRIEND U GO NUTS BAD THOUGHTS COME INTO UR HEAD AND SOME REACT TO THEM. NOT RIGHT TO BLAME OTHERS/LIKE SUCIDE/ ITS THE FAULT OF KILLER- PROVERTY AND ALL THE WORRIES THAT COME WITH IT/FOOD,HOUSING,NO HELP FROM STATE OR FAMILY, PEOPLE TIRED OF HEARING UR PROBLEMS, WHAT IS NEEDED IS HELP FROM STATE FAST NOT PUT ON A LIST WAITING FOR HOUSING,FOOD,MEDICAL CARE AND MOST OF ALL HELP MENTALLY WHEN U TELL SOMEONE UR FEELING HELP THEM NOT LOCK THEM IN A HOSPITAL OR TAKE THE KIDS, ONLY AS A LAST RESORT ANYMORE MENTAL PREASURE WILL PUT THEM OVER THE LINE OF SANITY
June 1st, 2007 at 4:03 am
gladys bell: A restraining order does mean there was abuse. Any woman can get one and many do as a simple expedient to ensure child custody. Also, do not forget, that men who are being abused and desperately need a restraining order usually cannot get one! The system is horridly sexist and perverted.
As for poverty? Yes, it can be a problem. That said, in the US there are systems in place for such women ... not for the men who also need the help, of course.
The important thing for YOU to know is that a great many men will know more about these issues than you would. They've faced the horrors on their own with no help and no possibility of help: PLUS! Plus, they face the hate of the women and the press which infests our culture.
Mental health is a tough thing with multiple debates ongoing. What is the right thing to do is an answer which simply does not as of yet exist. Support groups seem to help and there is a lot of work going on to ensure that there are support groups for those women who need them. The men who need them are of course left to drift on their own.
It is crucially important that you learn that males are not the evil enemy! Such sexism hurts children and kills innocents throughout our culture.
June 1st, 2007 at 11:55 pm
A RESTRAINING ORDER IS JUST A PIECE OF PAPER TO BE INFORCED, IF THE OTHER PERSON REALLY WANTS TO GET U IT DOES NOT HELP / SAVE UR LIFE OR STOP THEM FROM BURNING THE HOUSE BEATING U ETC. THEY'LL GET CAUGHT LATER . I AGREE A LOT OF MEN NEED HELP AND THERE SHOULD BE HELP EQUALLY FOR ALL.,THERE IS HELP FOR MEN JUST NOT ENOUGHT, WHY U SAY THEY FACE THE HATE OF THE WOMEN AND PRESS? I DON'T THINK THAT IS TRUE ESPECIALLY THE PRESS. SUPPORT GROUPS HELP BUT U HAVE TO FIND THEM AND GO FOR A LONG TIME, THESE WOMEN/MEN WHO KILL NEED HELP FAST. I THINK WHAT JW SAID WILL HELP SOMEONE TO PUSH GETTING MORE HELP FOR MEN.
June 5th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Yes, this case is definite proof that restraining orders do kill.
In fact, since the system is set up to encourage any and all women to obtain an exparte’ restraining order with the understanding that getting a restraining order is some kind of solution to her problems, what ever they may be.
This is not the first women to kill her children and will not be the last since the courts do not recognize any problem except women victim and man is the perpetrator of domestic violence
All too often the one stop solution to any issues involving a family situation is a restraining order. Many women who are looking for help find themselves forced into the family court system. Once in the system the parties loose all control and are forced to prosecute one another under the guise of protecting the “victim”.
This woman had some problems and apparently has a tainted mental health history. When a women with mental health problem reaches out for help the solution is blame the man and get a restraining order.
In this case the Father was away from her and the family, she most likely felt overwhelmed and desperate, and hence the murders/suicide took place.
So instead of carefully evaluating the problem that brought this women to the point of committing murder, the media and divorce industry operatives blame the husband and attempt to add these murders to the over inflated roster of murders connected to domestic violence.
What this does is keep the federal and State funding coming in to the domestic violence operatives and helps no one. In fact maintaining this kind of cover up encourages the future murder of innocent children...
Is there one drop of concern for a Father who lost his children to such a horrific crime?
Is there one ounce of compassion for how this man will survive without consortium and raise the one living child along with being deemed a domestic violence perpetrator?
No!
Seems there is a continual double standard when it comes to women being the perpetrator of murder.
Did not Andrea Yates just win her appeal after murdering six children and the Father was blamed for not being a good enough husband?
Was not Lillian Harris exonerated by the divorce industry operatives after she ran over her husband multiple times on video camera?
Its time the media begin to report facts on how the domestic violence “ industry “ kills children.
June 7th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
[...] remarked before on Christian Newswire's reactionary gay-bashing--for some examples, click here, here and here. However, the latest example of their school yard anti-gay bullying--"State [...]
August 4th, 2007 at 11:33 am
[...] When Gilberta Estrada hung her four small daughters, three of whom died, media focused attention on her allegedly abusive ex-boyfriend. To learn more, click here. [...]